Circumcision and Vaccines - my wife is now against both

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Hi,

Father of 4 here with a 5th on the way (waiting to find out the sex as we’ve done with all of them). Our first 3 were boys, each were circumcised and all have received vaccines (albeit spaced out a bit further than the normal recommendations at our request).

Regarding circumcision: I am circumcised - and again our first 3 boys were as well. My wife now recently said she read that circumcision “was a sin” and had read someone’s scriptural rationale. I told her that it’s only a sin if you’re doing it believing that it’s “required for salvation” and we confirmed that with our parish priest. I personally don’t see why we should change course on this at this point - it would be pretty weird if all of our boys and I were circumcised, and our others weren’t.

Regarding vaccines: I’m against the use of materials from elective abortions as growth mediums (there are other effective and licit materials available) but confess I didn’t go vaccine by vaccine to determine whether they all were previously. I know the Church says that if it’s the only available vaccine then you can still do it. However, she says her objections are not only moral. I’m not an anti-vaxxer but it seems she’s becoming one.

Any thoughts here? Anyone gone through something similar?

Thanks and God bless.
 
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I can sympathize with the dilemma you are facing. All I can do is give my opinion…
With yourself and three older brothers all circumcised, I’d really hesitate to withhold it from the next one. Yes, it’s a purely cosmetic reason but it’s also a good one. I could imagine older brothers being typical teasers here. Of course, should you decide against, I’d make it very clear to the older boys to never do that!

I’m a strong supporter of vaccinations. You and your wife need to discuss this with your pediatrician and follow his advice!
 
The problem with anti-vaxxers is that they tend to be conspiratorial. No matter how many articles from medical journals or respected doctors you show them, they’ll just go on believing some crank on Youtube.

I’m not sure what you can really do. Maybe discuss with your wife where she’s getting the information that seems to be changing her mind?
 
Circumcision is a cruel procedure and has no medical benefit whatsoever. All the benefits that people list are ludicrous. I am 100% for allowing circumcision for religious reasons. Catholics have no religious requirement for this precedure so why harm your own blood and remove an integral part of their body without their consent at an age where they don’t even have to opportunity to object? All of Europe does not circumcise. There is no health crisis as a result. So again all medical arguments are entirely made up.
 
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It is not cosmetic. The foreskin provides essential lubrication of a highly sensitive part of the body. It is far from removing a clitoris but it is even further from getting your ears pierced. I believe that our bodies were created by God. The Catholic God explicitly discourages circumcision.
 
I wasn’t claiming the medical reasons pro or con. The fact is four males in the house are circumcised. If they have another boy and he’s not, how will the boy himself feel growing up not looking like the boys? How will the boys react to the youngest looking different. It’s a cosmetic reason that definitely needs to be included in this families decision.

There’s already another heated thread with all the pros and cons of this. I was merely looking at this particular family and what they need to also consider.

I’m neither pro or against circumcision. I think it is a personal decision for each family to decide for themselves after weighing the information.
 
Circumcision is going out of fashion. A hundred years ago, in the United States and one or two other countries, it was fashionable to circumcise baby boys as soon as they were born. Nowadays not so much. There must be many families where the older boys are circumcised and the younger boys aren’t.

en.wikipedia.org

Prevalence of circumcision - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
newbie25553 said:
Any thoughts here?
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Yes, get into some counseling with your pastor. Because neither circumcision NOR vaccines are a moral issue in the Church. As you properly noted, not even those produced with fetal tissue lines.

She’s clearly latched on to some sort of fringe group or internet personality, and you need to get to the bottom of it quickly before she gets even more strange notions. Having your pastor as a third party who can confirm none of this is sinful would be helpful. He might also steer her towards sound groups and away from fringe groups.

IDK what else to do when a loved one goes outer limits. That is certainly tough. Although, if this is some sort of uber traditionalist group spouting this stuff, there is always the man as head of household card to be played. I don’t like it, but I’d do it if my spouse were spouting off whackadoodle stuff, and if I were a man of course.

EDITED TO ADD: There’s nothing wrong with a boy being uncircumcized, and “because he doesn’t look like the rest of us” seems a flimsy reason to do circumcision. It’s the “sin” part that alarms me, as this has fringe group written all over it.
 
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As a man and a father of a son
  1. I’m very happy I’m circumcised & that I was circumcised as an infant
  2. I’m very happy we circumcised my son and he was fine afterwards
Circumcising make it very easy to clean and avoids yeast infections, etc.

The American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) found that the health benefits of newborn male circumcision outweigh the risks, but the benefits are not great enough to recommend universal newborn circumcision.

Here is what WebMD has to say about it: Circumcision: Pros vs Cons, Benefits, Risks, Procedure Overview

And here is what the Mayo Clinic (one of best hospitals in the United States) has to say about it: Circumcision (male) - Mayo Clinic

Personally, I don’t think God would have asked the Israelites to do it if it was cruel and harmful.
 
Jbrady said:
There is little chance that they will react negatively in any way. It’s like one kid has blond hair, and the other brown.
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Yeah, I don’t think so… boys love to tease each other.

I was the oldest of 3 boys and we used to tease our youngest brother constantly by saying he was the adopted (which he wasn’t) because he was lighter skinned than the rest of us. Later, as we got older, the jokes changed to him being switched at birth, really from Texas, the mailman’s son, etc.

I can almost guarantee brothers are going to tease a brother who different than another.
 
phil19034 said:
I can almost guarantee brothers are going to tease a brother who different than another.
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I’m the oldest of seven boys, and have a doctorate in advanced teasing. Circumcision wouldn’t even show up on the radar as far as teasable topics are concerned. Any concern is hyper-exaggerated.
 
Jbrady said:
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phil19034:
I can almost guarantee brothers are going to tease a brother who different than another.
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I’m the oldest of seven boys, and have a doctorate in advanced teasing. Circumcision wouldn’t even show up on the radar as far as teasable topics are concerned. Any concern is hyper-exaggerated.
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Just because you and your brothers would not tease about that subject doesn’t mean others won’t.

Maybe these kids won’t either, (I never said it was a 100% guarantee)? But the possibility should be something the parents consider. NOW, if they dismiss that possibility, or don’t consider it to be an issue, that is totally fine. But they should at least consider it.

God Bless
 
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Jbrady said:
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phil19034:
But the possibility should be something the parent consider.
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To the same degree that the parents should worry about the kid getting struck by a meteorite. It’s possible, yes. Just not very likely.
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Wow… OK.

I can say this… our neighbor (he was my brother’s age) was uncircumcised and my brothers & lots of other boys in the neighborhood used to joke about that.

NOW - they didn’t bully him about it, but they mess with him about it from time to time.
 
phil19034 said:
but they mess with him about it from time to time.
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Probably a lot less than they would mess with him if he were a ginger or southpaw, or has freckles, or wears glasses, or braces. Or just for any other of a myriad of insignificant and arbitrary issues. If someone is determined to tease you, they can always find something to tease you about, whether you are circumcised or not. Being circumcised will have zero impact on whether you are teased or bullied.
 
The circumcision thing is no big deal either way. It’s a non-issue. If she doesn’t want another boy circumcised, just let it go and let her have her way on that. The vaccine thing should be non-negotiable. Anti-vaxxers tend to be impervious to science and reality. There are a lot of junk science anti-vaxxer mothers out there on social media who support each other and proselytize others into their cult. Stay strong. Try to defeat her with real science, but don’t be surprised if it winds up being like nailing jello to the wall.
 
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