circumcision & Catholic teaching ?

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Circumcision was the old law that you were justified with, we aren’t justified anymore by the old law, but the new, Baptism, so therfore except for hygene it’s not needed.
Anyway what about the ladies, how would they be justified ? 😉 I guess baptism covers that one.

My brother Johnny had to have it done to save his life as a baby, but he was also baptized, another story.
Suffice to say his private swelled up like a baloon.

Anyway >>>Gal 5: 1 Stand fast, and be not held again under the yoke of bondage. 2 Behold, I Paul tell you, that if you be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.* 3 And I testify again to every man circumcising himself, that he is a debtor to the whole law.* 4 You are made void of Christ, you who are justified in the law: you are fallen from grace. 5 For we in spirit, by faith, wait for the hope of justice. 6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision: but faith that worketh by charity

Gal 6:11 11 See what a letter I have written to you with my own hand.** 12 For as many as desire to please in the flesh, they constrain you to be circumcised, only that they may not suffer the persecution of the cross of Christ**. 13 For neither they themselves who are circumcised, keep the law; but they will have you to be circumcised, that they may glory in your flesh. 14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ; by whom the world is crucified to me, and I to the world. 15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature
 
When I was pregnant with my first child we discussed circumcision in case the baby was a boy (which he was). I did lots of research and could find no good reason for it, unless my husband wanted our son to look like him. So I asked him and he said he couldn’t see why he would put our son through an unnecessary, potentially painful surgical procedure just for that reason. So we didn’t.

None of our sons will be circumsized now, unless I can find a darn good reason for it, and I seriously doubt I will.
 
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BLB_Oregon:
Besides the hygiene issue–which is not trivial in older men with a diminished capacity to take care of themselves-- …
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  1. What about older women with the same problem? Taking care of female genitals is no easier than taking care of an uncircumcised penis.
  2. If an old man can’t take care of his penis, he probably can’t really take care of himself either and would have other issues such as dental care, general hygiene, housekeeping, cooking for himself, going shopping, paying bills, fire safety, etc. Someone who is so impaired that they can’t even wash under a little bit of skin that they have had all of their lives will have many worse problems than that!
  3. The argument about the foreskin getting stuck in the retracted position is one of the only valid arguments I found while doing my research (that and the minimally increased risk of cancer that is questionable). However, are you going to cut someone’s toes off to prevent them from stubbing them or breaking them? Are you going to remove your daughter’s breast tissue to prevent her from getting breast cancer in later years? How about pulling all your teeth and getting dentures to prevent the discomfort of possible tooth decay and dental bills? It doesn’t happen very often that the foreskin gets stuck, and even less frequently does it require surgery. But then–if they need it, the surgery option is available. If they don’t need it, and most likely will not need it during their lives, don’t give them surgery.
 
I used to ride in a carpool with somebody who wasn’t circumsized. He told us a story about being in the army and his foreskin getting stuck, and then the doctors had to unstick it. He said it hurt terribly, and he got circumsized shortly thereafter.

I have also read that many women are turned off by an uncirced. guy. That there can be bad smells etc.

I also have read that being circed. can prevent aids and other stds. There is a greater risk of penile cancer in an uncirced. penis.

All of this info. made me decide to have my son circed. My husband is as well, so he wanted it.
 
Being circ’d doesn’t prevent sexually transmitted AIDS or STDS. These are caused by risky sexual behavior. Practice abstinence and no need to circ and you won’t get these diseases.
 
I know of a nurse friend of my mother who worked in geriatric care for many years and would describe how difficult it was to properly care for an uncirc’d man. The skin often would not retract, trapping body fluid there and making it a haven for bacteria, discomfort and infection. Not to mention a putrid smell. Plus the pain of forcing older, less supple skin that sometimes was dry and cracked just created such a tough dynamic and more discomfort then someone already suffering from other health problems needed.

I also know a friend of mine who has an uncirc’d husband and it has created serious issues in their marital intimacy. He bathes several times a day, after the gym, etc and it isn’t enough to get rid of an odor that she describes as very foul (and he apparently agrees, too). He has spent most of his adult life wishing he had been circ’d as a child and resents the fact he hasn’t been. Last I heard, they had plans to have him go through it shortly because both of them were tired of what it was doing to their intimacy.

My husband is circ’d but was somewhat open to exploring the idea of not doing it for future sons. I was actually leaning toward not doing it, but the anecdotal stories I mentioned above were enough to convince both of us to use the plasti-bell method should we have any sons in the future.
 
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Princess_Abby:
He has spent most of his adult life wishing he had been circ’d as a child and resents the fact he hasn’t been…
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My husband was not circ’d. When our son was born, he felt very strongly that our son should be. It seemed so important to him, I felt it was the right thing to do. Seeing as how he was speaking from the experience of being uncirc’ed, I decided he knew what he was talking about and didn’t question his resolve. I can read any and all statistics, but to me that doesn’t compare to EXPERIENCE and the loving heart of a father. My husband felt strongly, the loving thing to do, and the best for our son, was to have him circ’d.

God bless everyone, and I doubt that it really is going to matter too much one way or another. Kind of along the lines … “so, do you have an innie or an outie?” 🙂
 
As a nurse myself, I have seen my fair share of uncircumcised penises on older men, and not a one of them had an odor problem or a non-supple, rigid, cracking skin problem. Look at an old person’s face. It’s loose and wrinkly. So is the penis. I’m not saying that a few people might encounter a problem with this, but this is far from the norm. I did work in hospice, home health, and orthopedics (with many elderly people needing new joints or having broken their hips). About 80% of the elderly patients I saw in our affluent private hospital were uncircumcised.

The person who has a perpetual odor problem may have an infection. I wonder if he has seen his doctor about that. Regardless, once a foreskin is cut off, it’s off. I would rather my son resent the fact that he has a foreskin (which he can then choose to have removed) rather than resenting the fact that we decided that his penis needed to be altered from the way God designed it.
 
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Princess_Abby:
He has spent most of his adult life wishing he had been circ’d as a child and resents the fact he hasn’t been.
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:yup: ** Every urologist we’ve ever used admitted to being circ’d and every one them said they had their sons done also because of the teen boys and men they have has patients who wish their parents had done it. One urologist said he set aside an entire day of the week just for adult patients looking into getting circ’d! **

It’s not just “locker room” comparison, although many men grow up to be very self-aware of it. Many men find they just plain don’t like it, have problems they feel could be avoided, or find their loved one is less than thrilled with it.
 
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CatholicSam:
As a nurse myself, I have seen my fair share of uncircumcised penises on older men, and not a one of them had an odor problem or a non-supple, rigid, cracking skin problem. Look at an old person’s face. It’s loose and wrinkly. So is the penis. I’m not saying that a few people might encounter a problem with this, but this is far from the norm. I did work in hospice, home health, and orthopedics (with many elderly people needing new joints or having broken their hips). About 80% of the elderly patients I saw in our affluent private hospital were uncircumcised.

The person who has a perpetual odor problem may have an infection. I wonder if he has seen his doctor about that. Regardless, once a foreskin is cut off, it’s off. I would rather my son resent the fact that he has a foreskin (which he can then choose to have removed) rather than resenting the fact that we decided that his penis needed to be altered from the way God designed it.
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Well the nurse I am speaking about has over 30 years of experience and I trust her judgement. I’m sure she has seen quite a lot in her many years of work history.

My friend’s husband has seen the doctor several times. Nothing is wrong with him. The odor varies and even just out of the shower is apparently offensive. According to my friend it makes certain aspects of foreplay completely undesirable. I think she has also had several yeast infections which she told me her doctor attributes to sex with her uncirc’d husband. Her husband does not relish having to go through the procedure as an adult instead of it being a memory he doesn’t even have.

Obviously this is very personal for some people, but countering individuals’ personal experiences with their OWN personal experiences really doesn’t create a valid point. I’m sure some women have great and wonderful sex lives with their uncirc’d husbands and I’m sure there are many older men who have the supplest of foreskins no matter how wrinkled and old they happened to be… But this is not universal truth and there are obviously others who have different but valid experiences.

I don’t wish any of my future little boys to be the old man in nursing care facility with a horrendous infection and terrible odor because the nurses helping him can’t retract his foreskin. I don’t wish my future daughter in laws to be in the position of barely tolerating sex and enduring multiple yeast infections because I didn’t circ my son.

And that is just my opinion! 🙂 I am ultra glad my husband is circ’d and I want the same benefits for my future sons.
 
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Princess_Abby:
Well the nurse I am speaking about has over 30 years of experience and I trust her judgement. I’m sure she has seen quite a lot in her many years of work history.

My friend’s husband has seen the doctor several times. Nothing is wrong with him. The odor varies and even just out of the shower is apparently offensive. According to my friend it makes certain aspects of foreplay completely undesirable. I think she has also had several yeast infections which she told me her doctor attributes to sex with her uncirc’d husband. Her husband does not relish having to go through the procedure as an adult instead of it being a memory he doesn’t even have.

Obviously this is very personal for some people, but countering individuals’ personal experiences with their OWN personal experiences really doesn’t create a valid point. I’m sure some women have great and wonderful sex lives with their uncirc’d husbands and I’m sure there are many older men who have the supplest of foreskins no matter how wrinkled and old they happened to be… But this is not universal truth and there are obviously others who have different but valid experiences.

I don’t wish any of my future little boys to be the old man in nursing care facility with a horrendous infection and terrible odor because the nurses helping him can’t retract his foreskin. I don’t wish my future daughter in laws to be in the position of barely tolerating sex and enduring multiple yeast infections because I didn’t circ my son.

And that is just my opinion! 🙂 I am ultra glad my husband is circ’d and I want the same benefits for my future sons.
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I’m sorry to have offended you, Princess Abby. I thought that this was the place to discuss circumcision. Unlike many people, I haven’t made up my mind “for all future sons I might have.” And if there are valid reasons TO circumcise, I want to know about them. You, as well as many others, have given me much food for thought. I’m just trying to gain a better understanding of the other side of this argument. I’m young, and in this “modern” age, I was taught in college that circumcision is not really that necessary. This was a relatively new concept to me, as all males in my family were circumcised, as were all males in my husband’s family. “DS” is the first uncircumcised one. So we’re sort of treading on uncertain ground, going by what we learn from others (doctors, friends, people here, websites, and yes, personal experiences). I don’t doubt what you said is true, but I am just trying to find out what is best for little boys. I do believe that there *is * a best option, and I want to find out what it is 🙂

Once again, I apologize for unintentionally offending you or anyone else by questioning arguments for circumcision.
 
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CatholicSam:
I do believe that there *is *a best option, and I want to find out what it is 🙂

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The “best option” is the one that you and your spouse decide to be the right one, IMHO.
Medically & religiously(sp?) there is no reason to get a circumsion just as there is no reason to not get one. It is a matter of preference, once again IMHO.

With that all said and done… both of my sons where circ’d.
 
CS,

I was merely replying and pointing out that one person’s reasoning based on experience does not invalide someone else’s reasoning based on a different experience. I’m not sure where the rest of what you said concerning me being offended and this not being a place to discuss circumsicion came from.

I don’t believe there is only one best option for ALL little boys, everywhere. I believe that we all take the information we have available and do the best we can with it. We make the best decision for our families and it shouldn’t have to mean that we are making a universal decision about what is best for all little boys everywhere.

I can understand someone who had a negative experience with it choosing not to do it again. I can also understand that same person saying it’s very rare to have a negative outcome from a circ and choosing to do it for the rest of her sons. I can understand someone with cultural or religious reasonings choosing to do it either way. I understand someone thinking it’s barbaric and should be avoided at all costs. I can understand daddies wanting their sons to look like their fathers. For me, it is not really any of the above–as I mentioned, it’s hygeine-oriented and how it will affect their future relationships and health care. But that doesn’t mean I expect everyone to make a similar decision and nor will I ever say that is the single best option for any and every little boy.
 
When my husband and I were preparing for the birth of our now (9 week old) son the question of circumcision was an issue for me. I read up on the questions asked here in this thread but like others here I found much conflicting information which didn’t lead me to one firm conclusion. I wanted to leave the matter entirely up to my husband because I just figure he knows more about these sorts of things ^_^. He chose circumcision for our son because he would have preferred that for himself. He has some physical pain that would have been avoided if he had been circumcised at birth. So here’s an example of a father -not- wanting his son to “look like him.”

I was happy with his decision… honestly because it conforms with most of the other American families I know. However, when I changed my precious baby’s diaper for the first time after the circumcision and saw his little penis as bright red as a fire truck I regretted it. I had no idea it would look so gruesome at first and I felt awful for having asked for it to be done to him. I still feel a little unsure of our decision.
 
I firmly believe that it is sinful to cut off any healthy, functioning part of another person’s body without their consent.

Did God make all little boys in need of immediate surgical correction? I think not :(.

I understand for those who are unaware on the issue (I was once, hence my first son is circ.ed), but those who would have it done for cosmetic reasons, I just don’t “get” that on a Catholic board. :(.
 
Does anyone else find it strange that this is predominantly an American phenomenon?
 
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jess7396:
I firmly believe that it is sinful to cut off any healthy, functioning part of another person’s body without their consent…
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There are many things that as a parent I consent too on my sons behalf (since they are minors)
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jess7396:
understand for those who are unaware on the issue (I was once, hence my first son is circ.ed), but those who would have it done for cosmetic reasons, I just don’t “get” that on a Catholic :(.
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Not all of us got our sons cir’d because of “cosmetic” reasons.
I know that was not the reason that both of sons went through this.
 
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Karin:
There are many things that as a parent I consent too on my sons behalf (since they are minors)

Not all of us got our sons cir’d because of “cosmetic” reasons.
I know that was not the reason that both of sons went through this.
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How many of the things you consent to are the surgical removal of a healthy functioning body part? That is what I am arguing to be sinful, not more benign choices one makes for their minor child.

The second section you quoted was aimed at those people on this thread who have admitted that their reason for doing it was to “look like daddy”, and many people here have admitted that.

If your reasons were “medical”, do you realize that there is not a single major medical organization which recommends routine infant circumcision?
 
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jess7396:
I understand for those who are unaware on the issue (I was once, hence my first son is circ.ed), but those who would have it done for cosmetic reasons, I just don’t “get” that on a Catholic board. :(.
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Are cosmetic reasons, in and of themselves evil?

I can think of many things that could fall under this category … braces … birthmarks, moles removed … haircuts, clipping fingernails and toenails … etc.

I also cannot think, (although it is no longer necessary) that God would command his people to do something to their babies that would be “bad for them” to fulfill their part of His covenent.:confused: Just doesn’t fly with what we know of Him.
 
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