Circus vestments?

[Joan_M]

However, before everyone gets so up and arms over this they should do three things: 1.) Read the whole article, 2.) Reread puzzleannie’s post, 3.) Marvel at her Christian charity, in how she wrote such a wonderful post without first reading the entire article.

We most certainly should get up in arms over this abomination. I did read the whole article. It means nothing. There is absolutely no excuse for any priest wearing such disgraceful immitations of chausables. What the two with the garments that appear to have been made from children’s bed sheets are doing is insulting the Mass.

Puzzleannie is completely missing the point. Priests may, indeed, minister to circus people and others in the entertainment industry. However, there is still absolutely no good reason for using such garments. It is a liturgical abuse, and not a small one.

 

[MusicMan]

I stand by what I posted.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

I was kind of hoping against hope that these were Episcopalian priests, but the picture of the Pope in the background kind of kills that.

I think this was well-intentioned, but a mistake.

 

[Conciliar]

How utterly condescending to think for one moment that just because the people to whom they minister are circus workers, it is somehow pastoral and sensitive for the priest to dress more like someting that popped out of a Jack-in-the-box than one who serves in Persona Christi. No wonder these brothers and sisters in Christ feel like outsiders in the world. They deserve to have their attention drawn heavenward as much as anyone else.

As disturbing as the story was to read, I couldn’t help but chuckle when I got to this line:

Father Hogan was introduced to the circus as a boy. A neighbor worked with Ringling Circus and introduced him to the first circus priest, Father Ed Sullivan.

I guess Fr. Hogan had some *really big shoes *to fill.

 

[MusicMan]

I wonder if those vestments might have been gifts from the people these priests were ministering too.

 

[Conciliar]

I wonder if those vestments might have been gifts from the people these priests were ministering too.

That’s possible. If so, what a great opportunity to teach the purpose and meaning of sacred vestments along with an explanation of why the Chuckles Chausible can’t be worn at Mass. :juggle:

I don’t mean to be a wiseguy. Think about it… this is like ministering to soldiers wearing camo vestments, or to construction workers wearing canvas Dickey’s vestments. Part of the point is to lift people out of the ordinary and draw their attention to the sacred. Dressing down to these people is paying them a disservice, IMO.

 

[MusicMan]

Oh, I agree with you. However, it bugs me when people get bent out of shape without having all the information or get upset with people for one (relatively minor) infraction when they could be wonderful ministers.

I also see all 5 priests in the picture being lumped together, but it’s really the two on the right that are the issue, right?

 

[Chris_McAvoy]

Not only is it wrong.

It is evil.

I hesitate to be in communion with a Church that does not excommunicate or discipline these lost men of indellible marks.

“The Church has a long history of evangelical outreach to different cultures. This sounds like one of those.”

With comments like this I come closer to believing in the Eastern Orthodox Church everyday.

 

[Chris_McAvoy]

Not only is it wrong.

It is evil.

I hesitate to be in communion with a Church that does not excommunicate or discipline these lost men of indellible marks.

 

[Philothea53]

since the link gives the picture not the story I venture to guess that if we have the full story we will find the priests in question minister to the circus and carnival community who winter in Florida, and are used in limited circumstances with that community, where they are not inappropriate. I venture if we explore further we will also find that the priests who minister to that community are very fine dedicated priests who give attention to people who might otherwise lack pastoral care.

Is this ‘liturgical relativism’?

 

[rwoehmke]

since the link gives the picture not the story I venture to guess that if we have the full story we will find the priests in question minister to the circus and carnival community who winter in Florida, and are used in limited circumstances with that community, where they are not inappropriate. I venture if we explore further we will also find that the priests who minister to that community are very fine dedicated priests who give attention to people who might otherwise lack pastoral care.

Could be. What ho do we detect around the neck and over the shoulders under the alb? Is it an amice? Didn’t know that they were still used.
Perhaps our judgement has been a little hasty

 

[KathleenElsie]

The Bishop and one of the priests are wearing proper vestments. The priest sitting down appears to have his stole outside his chausable, which is an abuse.

The other two priests ought to be confined to a monastery for penance! Or maybe in the lions cage LOL.

Regardless of the reason for the Mass, there is absolutely no way the garments these two are wearing could ever be considered appropriate. Did they actually wear them while celebrating the Mass. Or did they change into them for fun?

The Holy Mass is just that - the Holy Mass. Whether for clowns, scouts, firemen or any other group, it should never degenerate into the disgusting picture those two priests portray.

When will our priests realize that they are to be our shepherds and guide us to Heaven, not pander to our silly feelings?

Thank God I’m not living in America! I’ve seen and read too many horrifying happenings through these forums.

I once told a priest that there are times that the only thing that keeps me from hitting some priests is that it would be a sacrilege. He laughingly told me that it might be a virtue!!/quote]

I’m a traditional Catholic. If I went to a Mass that had priests that dressed like this for the Mass I would leave and very likely not go back. Now that being said if the priest wore the normal vestments for the Mass and then came out wearing a costume then it would no bother me.

 

[O.S.Luke]

I think some of you folks are majoring in the minors. Good grief.

 

[beatonmj]

Our new priest said Mass this Sunday wearing a green stole “decorated” with a rainbow. I don’t want to jump to conclusions, so I will ask: Is there any legitimate reason or tradition within the Catholic Church for a priest to have a rainbow displayed on his vestments?

 

[Conciliar]

A rainbow? Since it wasn’t the Solemnity of Noah, I can’ think of a liturgical reason. (Well… if we had one it could make sense. )

The only “tradition” I know of is the same one you’re trying not to assume. I’m curious to see the responses you get. If there is a tradition, someone here will know about it.

 

[chicago]

The rainbow is a Christian symbol. I’ve also seen vestments decorated with flowery type embellishments. I don’t see a problem with that either. Vestments don’t have to be totally plain jane or only embroidered in certain standard ways. Though they ought to be of the appropriate primary liturgical color for the day.

The real question becomes when are they overly done or totally secularized to the point of changing focus and drawing away attention from the sacred?

 

[Joan_M]

I’m a traditional Catholic. If I went to a Mass that had priests that dressed like this for the Mass I would leave and very likely not go back. Now that being said if the priest wore the normal vestments for the Mass and then came out wearing a costume then it would no bother me.

It would bother me if the costume was inappropriate Mass vestments. They could remove their vestments and dress up like a clown, a lion tamer, or whatever they want. Just do not mess with the vestments.

 

[Wolseley]

Once again, their hearts are in the right place and their heads are in the wrong one.

They’re sincerely trying to be “inclusive” and “diverse” and all of that other liberal [insert expletive of choice here], and all they end up doing is to minimalize the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass and turn it into a “theme” occasion, like a “Shamrock Shake” at McDonald’s for St. Patrick’s Day or a “4th of July Sale” at a furniture store.

Stupid, offensive, sacriligious, misguided, and disgusting, if you want my opinion. No better than a “clown Mass” or half-naked “liturgical dancers” prancing around in the aisles.

Sic transit gloria concilii.

 

[sojo]

Clothing isn’t evil. Inappropriate, not well thought out, “over-the-top”, immodest , pretty, ugly, clownish-- those are words one uses properly to describe clothing. Only the actions of people and angels can be evil, and I would never deem to call holy Fathers evil for having bad taste.

I too wonder if the garments weren’t gifts. The children in a parish we attended gave Father a stole with Doberman Pinchers all over it (his “children” were 4 enormous Dobies). He accepted it graciously, and he wore only for those rare celebrations for kiddies only.

Now the outreach and the story of how it started, that is truly a beautiful story. When I was a child, a local ice-cream parlor was opened by two retired circus folk. It was quite the scandal – she wore spike heels and a tight leopard skin outfit, and he had [GASP!!!] a gold hoop earing and a tatoo. Lots of folks treated them like they were subhuman, but my Mom and Dad took us aside and lectured us on the hard life they had led, and how they worked all their lives for this store, and how being colorful was part of their culture and had been necessary to their livelihood, and how we are are to charitable and kind to ALL people, even if they dressed funny.

Seems like some of you folks never had that talk with your moms. Yes, “if” (and we don’t know this) the priests dressed like that during the actual Mass, and not just before or after for the celebrations, then it was probably in poor taste and not in keeping with the rubrics. But an “abomination” and “evil”… and directed at Priests! …oh my.

Every winter they left for several months when the ice-cream trade dissolved and went back to their circus “family” in Florida. Probably attended this Church! If for a few moments, once a year someone in the Church tried to make them feel a little less freakish (which is how our community made them feel), and a little more comfortable, well I have trouble calling that a sin.

Just sayin’

sojo

 

[First_of_9]

Clothing isn’t evil. Inappropriate, not well thought out, “over-the-top”, immodest , pretty, ugly, clownish-- those are words one uses properly to describe clothing. Only the actions of people and angels can be evil, and I would never deem to call holy Fathers evil for having bad taste.

I too wonder if the garments weren’t gifts. The children in a parish we attended gave Father a stole with Doberman Pinchers all over it (his “children” were 4 enormous Dobies). He accepted it graciously, and he wore only for those rare celebrations for kiddies only.

Now the outreach and the story of how it started, that is truly a beautiful story. When I was a child, a local ice-cream parlor was opened by two retired circus folk. It was quite the scandal – she wore spike heels and a tight leopard skin outfit, and he had [GASP!!!] a gold hoop earing and a tatoo. Lots of folks treated them like they were subhuman, but my Mom and Dad took us aside and lectured us on the hard life they had led, and how they worked all their lives for this store, and how being colorful was part of their culture and had been necessary to their livelihood, and how we are are to charitable and kind to ALL people, even if they dressed funny.

Seems like some of you folks never had that talk with your moms. Yes, “if” (and we don’t know this) the priests dressed like that during the actual Mass, and not just before or after for the celebrations, then it was probably in poor taste and not in keeping with the rubrics. But an “abomination” and “evil”… and directed at Priests! …oh my.

Every winter they left for several months when the ice-cream trade dissolved and went back to their circus “family” in Florida. Probably attended this Church! If for a few moments, once a year someone in the Church tried to make them feel a little less freakish (which is how our community made them feel), and a little more comfortable, well I have trouble calling that a sin.

Just sayin’

sojo

Sounds like your parents taught you something other posters on this thread need to learn–Don’t Jump To Conclusions, Especially About People.