Clapping for the choir after mass

[b_justb]

This argument boils down to, “look, everybody is doing it therefore is must be okay.”

Using the same logic, you can condone abortion, adultery, pornography, prostitution or any grave sin.

Not that I am comparing applause after Mass to abortion, I am simply saying that the logic behind your perspective is flawed.

Lack of reverence at Mass does not justify further lack of reverence.

Bunk. The argument for the non-clappers is: “I don’t like it so therefore it is bad.” That’s the real argument being offered.

My logic on this (and please note I have not offered what I think about the clapping or not clapping) is merely to point out the completely ridiculous inconsistent replies to the idea of applauding after mass. Look at the arguments being offered without your mind already made up as to weather you like clapping or don’t like clapping. Then take the arguments and apply them to real life. They do not add up at all. It’s noisy, yeah so are your kids. Now you keep them brats quiet I’m trying to pray over here. Yeah That’s really going over well huh? Clapping detracts from the mass. Really? Isn’t the mass OVER when it happens? How can you detract from something when it’s over? Clapping after mass for the music makes the choir / musicians / MUSIC MINISTERS haughty. Really? And you know this how? Spoken to the ones in your church and have deemed their attitude to be inconsistent with Christian values? Clapping aftermass interups the silent prayer that is ongoing. Really? A 4 to 6 second spattering of applause totally derails the private prayers of the faithful much more than the thunderous noise made by the exodus of the faithful that have to get on with their lives after mass? Does a person’s contemplative prayer after mass really begin at the moment the music stops after the procession has left while they are still on their feet holding the music book in their hands but before the general population exits the building?

Oh Pah-lease! At least let’s all admit that it boils down to a personal preference.

Now if the personal preference is that of the Pastor, I think all should defer to him and it doesn’t matter if you like, don’t like, don’t care. If the pastor makes the call, that’s the call.

Can we agree to that? Can we agree to something? Anything?

 

[b_justb]

Your links are for individual parish websites and musician conferences. LOL they have absolutely no binding force. I can create my own website and say the same thing.

By contrast, the link and citation that I provided is from an official Vatican document on the Vatican’s website. It think it carries a little more weight.

I asked you to point to a section in that document that might shed some light to the points you are making in this thread. Please do so, I would like to see the referenced points. Thank you.

 

[b_justb]

lepanto:

And…? So the anti-clappers are non-relational?

I never said that or implied it. If that’s what you got from my posts then I didn’t communicate the point well enough.

lepanto:

The form and order of the Mass are not “totally meaningless junk.” (If they were, then sure, clapping would be fine.)

If clapping makes the Mass meaningful to you, what else would you like to add to the Mass to make it even more meaningful? Liturgical dancing??

“totally meaningless junk” refers to all the gripes we have that boildown to personal opinions that we as humans decide to take to a level that brings about division in the Body Of Christ rather than building unity and charity. This thread is a good example of what I am talking about.

And do please note that at no time have I offered what I think about the clapping or the not clapping. I am just addressing the complaints department.

 

[Conciliar]

The argument for the non-clappers is: “I don’t like it so therefore it is bad.” That’s the real argument being offered.

You fail to understand the “argument” entirely. This may explain the EDIT tenor of your posts.

Applause, on the one hand, blurs the distinction between one who participates in the liturgy in a unique role (singer, musician) with a performer. A number of those who participate in the liturgy this way have expressed this same concern.

For me, the broader issue is that applause is not in keeping with the sacredness of the time and space itself.

The conversation was extended to touch on the fact that many engage in laughter and loud conversation after Mass as well when some are still at prayer. It’s rude. A well-formed adult (meaning one that recognizes that sacredness of time and space require something more of us) should have no problem understanding this.

So if you truly want to argue an opposing view, you would have to take the position that applause does not, as some who sing in choir have said for themselves, blur the line between worshipper and performer. You’d also have to offer a position counter to the matters of sacred time and space that have been raised.

 

[po18guy]

Protestants may very well clap before, during and after their service, but our “service” is a re-presentation, a making present of the eternal and timeless sacrifice of Christ. As such, it calls for reverence. Just who was clapping while Christ was on the cross, and who was weeping? I know which group I prefer to emulate.
One for reverence

Christ’s peace to all.

 

[b_justb]

You fail to understand the “argument” entirely. This may explain the EDIT tenor of your posts.

Applause, on the one hand, blurs the distinction between one who participates in the liturgy in a unique role (singer, musician) with a performer. A number of those who participate in the liturgy this way have expressed this same concern.

For me, the broader issue is that applause is not in keeping with the sacredness of the time and space itself.

The conversation was extended to touch on the fact that many engage in laughter and loud conversation after Mass as well when some are still at prayer. It’s rude. A well-formed adult (meaning one that recognizes that sacredness of time and space require something more of us) should have no problem understanding this.

So if you truly want to argue an opposing view, you would have to take the position that applause does not, as some who sing in choir have said for themselves, blur the line between worshipper and performer. You’d also have to offer a position counter to the matters of sacred time and space that have been raised.

I have not taken to task any argument I find to have merit. I’m unsure why I needed to say that, I would think the lack of comment on it would be self evident. In case it’s not, then it has been said.

 

[b_justb]

Protestants may very well clap before, during and after their service, but our “service” is a re-presentation, a making present of the eternal and timeless sacrifice of Christ. As such, it calls for reverence. Just who was clapping while Christ was on the cross, and who was weeping? I know which group I prefer to emulate.
One for reverence

Christ’s peace to all.

Do we as Catholics take in the body of Christ as it was Crucified or is it His Risen Self? His glorified Body? Is the celebration of the Mass a recollection of the death of Christ only? Or is it a memorial of his resurrection and glorification? No clapping, Christ is risen! Shhhhhhh. Don’t say that too loud, people might get mad.

 

[paramedicgirl]

Thank you for calling my posts childish. I sincerely appreciate your assertion that I am not “A well-formed adult.” I am most edified.

I have not taken to task any argument I find to have merit. I’m unsure why I needed to say that, I would think the lack of comment on it would be self evident. In case it’s not, then it has been said.

You do appear to be arguing for the sake of arguing. You stated that you haven’t revealed your own opinion on applause after Mass, and that you just want to point out the inconsistencies of others. Sorry but that’s inflammatory.

Exactly what is your purpose?

 

[Wolseley]

If the argument is for quiet I can see your point. What else do we do away with to make sure it is quiet enough?

Inappropriate jabbering by the congregants before, during, and after Mass; electric amplifiers; rock bands; cell phones; Gameboys; extraneous and needless ceremonies during the course of Mass (“Everyone with a birthday or anniversary in August please stand up for a blessing! Extend your right hands…”); inappropriate levity by the celebrant.

Children perhaps? They are pretty noisy.

No; children—especially babies—are going to make a certain amount of noise. Since it was Christ Himself Who said “Let the little children come unto Me”, I’m sure that’s acceptable to Him.

Hard soled shoes? All that tap-tapping while walking to and from the pew; most bothersome.

Easily remedied by installing carpeting in the aisles.

Ridiculous? Why, yes! That’s the point exactly.

Oh, I am fully aware that the point of your post is to be facetious and sarcastic. That’s fine. But I still take the stance that it is inappropriate to engage in any type of behavior that one wouldn’t have engaged in at Calvary.

 

[Wolseley]

It’s not annoying at all. If you frequent this part of CAF surely you can see why my remarks are as they are. Complaints about clapping after mass for the music? Is this what we are reduced to? I think people just love to gripe. I know I do! I think people get tired of hearing the gripes. I know I do! Incessant complaining for the sake of complaining, that way people like me can complain about the complaining! It’s just perfect, don’t you think? I am being ridiculous to show a point. Being absurd to show absurdity.

ps good for you for taking the time with your musical people at church (not ridiculous or absurd).

In a lot of cases, people don’t complain “just for the sake of complaining”.

They complain because their clerics and the liturgistas refuse to listen to them.

 

[RosalieM]

To Mary:

I haven’t read all the posts on this subject. I stopped on yours. I’m in the choir too and we’re up on the side of the altar in front of everyone. We have a huge choir loft that isn’t in use until the church is packed with people on Easter and Christmas. The choir never uses it. I wish we could be in the choir loft. That way we wouldn’t clog up traffic with musicians and choir at the front of the church during it’s most populated times. Also there could be a kind of soulful anonymity on the part of the choir. Maybe they save the loft space for crowded times. It’s true, once I hear applause I feel like a performer. I go to other masses where there’s no choir and I don’t have to sing right after communion. The choir director/cantor says we shouldn’t get carried away with the mass; but then he’s a professional musician.

 

[po18guy]

Do we as Catholics take in the body of Christ as it was Crucified or is it His Risen Self? His glorified Body? Is the celebration of the Mass a recollection of the death of Christ only? Or is it a memorial of his resurrection and glorification? No clapping, Christ is risen! Shhhhhhh. Don’t say that too loud, people might get mad.

Well, our salvation was paid for by Christ’s suffering and death. St. Paul preached “Christ crucified” (1 Corinthians:23). The mass makes the timeless sacrifice present to us, who are subject to time. Easter celebrates the resurrection and glorification. Jesus had to rise and ascend to fulfill scripture, but his suffering and death paid for our sins.

 

[b_justb]

You do appear to be arguing for the sake of arguing. You stated that you haven’t revealed your own opinion on applause after Mass, and that you just want to point out the inconsistencies of others. Sorry but that’s inflammatory.

Exactly what is your purpose?

It’s inflammatory to point out inconsistencies?

What is my purpose here on this thread? I read the thread. I was shocked, but not awed, at the self righteous remarks made by several of the non-clappers. I was totally taken by the self important, stand on my self righteous soap box, and look my nose down on anyone that disagrees with me attitude by the same blow hards mentioned above. The
“my piety is better than your piety, so there” crowd just burs my saddle. And for what reason would this happen? Because some people would have the audacity to applaud after mass in appreciation of the music.

Yeah, I’m the one way out in left field on this one for sure.

 

[b_justb]

Well, our salvation was paid for by Christ’s suffering and death. St. Paul preached “Christ crucified” (1 Corinthians:23). The mass makes the timeless sacrifice present to us, who are subject to time. Easter celebrates the resurrection and glorification. Jesus had to rise and ascend to fulfill scripture, but his suffering and death paid for our sins.

I like this a lot! I’d love to continue but I fear it is off topic for this thread. I did like it however.

 

[palmas85]

Since the purpose of the choir is not to entertain the congregation, I really see no need to offer applause for them after the Mass, anymore than I would applaud for the Priest, the Altar Servers, the Readers, the Ushers or the congregation…

 

[sandraladeda]

Since the purpose of the choir is not to entertain the congregation, I really see no need to offer applause for them after the Mass, anymore than I would applaud for the Priest, the Altar Servers, the Readers, the Ushers or the congregation…

Sometimes at my church, there is clapping. Why do you assume that if there is clapping, therefore the misguided congregation must be confusing the choir as entertainment? Can one not clap for the sake of communicating appreciation? Love?

Sometimes there is no clapping. On the occasions where there is no clapping, there is not a holy, silent, somber exit, but rather a joyful sense of community. That is the kind of community it is.

In the city in which I live, there are many churches. I have dear friends for whom nothing will do but the TLM. I do not attend the TLM, it’s not for me, or for my young family, or my husband whose faith is a work in slow progress. But for my friends who prefer the TLM, I appreciate their desire to attend the TLM. We can choose to worship where we feel most comfortable. I suspect that, for people who find the clapping offensive in my parish, they probably would not be attending my parish anyway - it may be too upbeat for your tastes. Our bishop has presided several times over the past couple years, and he manages to deal with our hand-holding, hugging, and yes, clapping. That’s good enough for me, as I have an enormous respect for him.

I suspect, as b-justb has stated, that the issue of clapping is a matter of opinion, nothing more. I also share the frustration at the “Tsk tskers” who seem to derive a great deal of satisfaction by coming to CAF and criticizing anything that falls outside of their perception of correctness. imo, it is nothing more than fault-finding and judgementalism, which makes me feel as uncomfortable as, say, witnessing a group standing around gossipping, imo…

We are not a homogeneous bunch of Catholics, same age, same background, same formation.

I just wish people could have the grace to say, “Well. that’s not for me” or “in my opinion…” I am sure this would result in far fewer threads being locked by the moderators due to deteriorating discussions…my opinion…

In Christ…

 

[pprimeau1976]

Recently, I attended a mass with my brother in which the priest announced to the people that he prefers that after dismissal and the choir has finished singing that the people should not clap. His reasoning was that we sing to give praise to God. We do not sing or have a choir for our benefit. Into which this announment has been easily dismissed by the people. What are your thoughts on this? What happens in your church?

On a side note, after thinking about this… I agree with the priest. I understand his reasoning. I like solemn masses.

Thanks in advance!

I agree with the priest as well, but I do not agree with the way that he did it. At what part of the mass did he instruct the people from not giving applause? How solemn did this act of giving instruction make the mass?

If I were this priest, I would have written an article in the church paper. But given the lack of info, he may have already done this.

 

[Cat]

Thank you, sandraladeda. You sound like the people in my parish, and your bishop sounds like my bishop.

I think that’s the crux of the issue–authority. Our parishes are under the authority of the priests, who are under the authority of the apostles.

If the priests approve of hand-clapping in their parish, and there is no objection by their apostle, then that’s an end of it. No more arguing with each other. Go to the Bishop and argue with him.

 

[Conciliar]

The trouble here is this - those who find clapping and chatter and laughter unbefitting the sacredness of the Mass and its environs find it that way as a matter of just that, the sacredness of the time and place. Leaving aside the more ethereal matter of sacredness, no one ever said not to laugh and joke and thank the musicians and kibbitz until your heart’s content, just do it - as a matter of decency and manners - outside of the sacred space where others are trying to recollect in prayer. That’s all.

Even if you fail to understand how the behavior in question is out of place inside the church proper, simple manners alone should be enough to urge you to keep yourself respectfully quiet. I bet even the most vocal defenders here probably would never imagine entering any other house of worship, talking and laughing like they’re at a picnic, while others are praying. Would you do that in a synagogue? Of course not. It’s flat out rude. Yet for some reason it’s OK inside your own place of worship to totally discount the people around you.

The bottom line, however, is the matter of sacredness, but I don’t think that dog will ever hunt with some people here.

 

[whatevergirl]

Recently, I attended a mass with my brother in which the priest announced to the people that he prefers that after dismissal and the choir has finished singing that the people should not clap. His reasoning was that we sing to give praise to God. We do not sing or have a choir for our benefit. Into which this announment has been easily dismissed by the people. What are your thoughts on this? What happens in your church?

On a side note, after thinking about this… I agree with the priest. I understand his reasoning. I like solemn masses.

Thanks in advance!

oddly enough, our new parish claps. It’s kind of funny to us, being new to this parish, as we have never heard of a parish clapping for their priests, choirs, etc…sometimes, depending on the message–the priest will get a wild round of applause. I mean, if a priest is leaving, or if it is his birthday, fine. But, not after the homily? I do like this parish, but if you check out my other thread on switching parishes, in the family section, you’ll see that there are just some things that ‘irk’ us a little.