Clarification Please

[nessie238]

I have seen this subject covered in a few ways on this forum …but wanted clarification for my personal situation. I am beyond gutted and have lost sleep over what I have found out.
I married my husband 14 years ago, he was divorced and I did ask my Church (Catholic) if they would marry us, to which we were told no. They gave us no other information except that they wouldn’t perform the marriage ceremony.
So we married through another church. Because I have always felt like I skipped a sacrement my husband asked about his first marriage being annuled when he went through th RCIA program and became a Catholic himself … Its something we always wanted to look into in more depth but I continued to go to church and have my children baptised through my local Catholic Parish.
My sister was married recently which made me think of my husbands annulment again. I joined this site to find out more information on whether he qualifies and how we start the process only to find that it looks like my marriage is invalid and I shouldn’t be attending my Church Services or receiving Eucharist?! I am a very spiritual person and as I said attend services and go to reconcilliation at least once every year. I did, on my first confession after my marrige confess to marrying a divorced man - for which I was given absolution.
So I am not sure where I or my husband or my children stand in all this? my kids were all born after we were married and my husband converted to catholicism about 5 years ago. Can he attend church? and what does this mean for my kids? I am confused and upset … i realise I need to talk to my priest but I am embarressed and our Church has just had two new priests assigned.
I am so blown away by this new information I just don’t know what to do. I seek comfort and prayers from you all but I don’t know what you will all think of this or me … or indeed whether I deserve to still call myself a practicing Catholic.
Any light that can be shed on this would be appreciated
Ness

 

[Trishie]

Ness there is no reason why you cannot attend Church services.
As you married before your husband was received into the Church,
then prior your husband’s reception into the Church, the priest should have advised him and you both regarding this. The process for annulment should have begun at that time.
It is therefore also the priest’s responsibility that this didn’t happen.

Please don’t be embarrassed about speaking to your priest. Many people do return to the Church and need to have their marriage validated, or require an annulment.

Please understand that both you and your husband can go to Mass and other services, but you will need to speak to a priest regarding reception of the Sacraments.

Regarding your children…as you and your husband are raising them as Catholics, there is no problem for them,
and if your husband is able to receive an annulment there is a way to make the marriage valid from the beginning, radical sanation.

Nessie I understand that you are feeling deeply distressed by all this.
Holding you and your family in my prayers.

 

[Kennyj]

You are likely in state of mortal sin, yes I advise as well speaking to a Priest.

Avoid all sacrements till then.

God bless,

 

[mountee]

Others will give you good information that I know will help, I will pray that you do not lose any more sleep and that the Holy Spirit be with you in your search for an answer. God bless you.

 

[PaulfromIowa]

Imy husband asked about his first marriage being annulled when he went through th RCIA program and became a Catholic himself …

What did they tell your husband when he went through RCIA?

What did your confessor tell you when you confessed having married a divorced man outside the church?

The Church has always considered valid Christian marriages to be indissoluble, per Christ’s own teaching. There may be various reasons why your husband’s first marriage might be invalid. You have not given us any information about that marriage so we cannot tell.

Make an appointment with your pastor and discuss the circumstances. You owe it to yourself and your family to deal with this ASAP. You should not stop attending church but you should avoid communion until this is resolved.

Don’t be embarrassed. We are all ignorant on some subjects. Your pastors/confessors should have discussed this with you before. This should have been dealt with years ago when your children were baptized and when your husband joined the Church.

 

[omegapd]

Here’s my story, which is somewhat similar…

I was raised Catholic, my wife was not. We were married in 1998 by a Methodist minister at the chapel at the college where we met…after the one and only Catholic Priest in town turned us down because he didn’t want to do any marriages outside of the actual church he was the pastor at.

10 years later I was called back to the Catholic church by the Holy Spirit. My wife converted and went through baptism and confirmation and my children were baptized into the church. I never thought anything different about receiving the Eucharist and did every Sunday until a couple of months ago when I read on here that I should not be and should be living a celibate lifestyle until I had our marriage blessed by the church.

I talked with the Priest and he gave me the forms to fill out. He said that since we had been married for 15 years and he saw no reason that things would change, he told me he would allow me to continue to receive the Eucharist but to get our marriage convalidated (sp) as soon as possible. We will be doing that this month.

Granted, divorce and annulment are not in my situation but speaking to the Priest was the best thing I did. It definitely made things easier and gave me peace of mind. FWIW, the priest I talked to is also fairly new to our Parish and this is his first full-time pastor-ship. There was no embarrassment on either side and my advice to you is to get to yours ASAP.

Hope this helps-

 

[chaela_may]

I have seen this subject covered in a few ways on this forum …but wanted clarification for my personal situation. I am beyond gutted and have lost sleep over what I have found out.

that you are asking questions is very good. i hope that you follow that anxiety in the right direction; namely, going straight to a priest for a good discussion at your and his earliest convenience.

I married my husband 14 years ago, he was divorced and I did ask my Church (Catholic) if they would marry us, to which we were told no. They gave us no other information except that they wouldn’t perform the marriage ceremony.

in this, they failed you. you should have been informed of why you weren’t allowed to marry in the catholic church so that you could take steps to do the right thing.

So we married through another church. Because I have always felt like I skipped a sacrement my husband asked about his first marriage being annuled when he went through th RCIA program and became a Catholic himself … Its something we always wanted to look into in more depth but I continued to go to church and have my children baptised through my local Catholic Parish.

you’re not the only one to marry in another church because the catholic church wouldn’t do it, by any stretch of the imagination. such marriages are often considered actual marriages, depending on the situation, although they’re not considered sacramental.

it sounds like he’s completed rcia. he wouldn’t (or shouldn’t) be allowed to participate in the sacraments of initiation if he was not married in the eyes of the catholic church. Jesus was crystal clear about this. the only way around it is if the marriage was never valid in the first place or if the marriage has ended because one of the spouses has died. just as a precaution: please don’t consider a decree of nullity (aka annulment) to be the catholic version of a divorce. going through a tribunal is in no way a guarantee that such a decree will be made. they’re there to ask one question: did God really join them together, or didn’t He? if He did, then there’s nothing that any human being can do to break that marriage apart so that you can be his wife.

My sister was married recently which made me think of my husbands annulment again. I joined this site to find out more information on whether he qualifies and how we start the process only to find that it looks like my marriage is invalid and I shouldn’t be attending my Church Services or receiving Eucharist?!

you are always welcome to attend mass, no matter your standing in the church! we welcome even those who are dyed-in-the-wool athiests. but, no, if your marriage is invalid and you are having sex, then you are in a state of mortal sin. receiving the holy Eucharist forgives you of your venial sins and arms you against future sin, but mortal sin is something else entirely, as i’m sure you are aware.

I am a very spiritual person and as I said attend services and go to reconcilliation at least once every year. I did, on my first confession after my marrige confess to marrying a divorced man - for which I was given absolution.

please note that absolution is given for sins committed only up to this point in your life (meaning that, the next time you had sex, you would have been in hot water again) and that it is conditional upon true contrition (meaning that absolution was not truly given for your staying married to a divorced man if you had no intent of correcting the situation). probably, the priest thought that you were correcting the issue, either by going through a tribunal or living as brother and sister for the time being (or both), which might explain why he considered your contrition genuine and gave you absolution. the priest is only a man though. he can say the words but, if you haven’t done your part, then God doesn’t do His.

So I am not sure where I or my husband or my children stand in all this? my kids were all born after we were married and my husband converted to catholicism about 5 years ago. Can he attend church? and what does this mean for my kids? I am confused and upset … i realise I need to talk to my priest but I am embarressed and our Church has just had two new priests assigned.

this doesn’t mean anything at all for your children, sacramentally speaking; the failings - or successes - of parents do not affect their kids. salvation is an individual enterprise. and, again, you are all welcome to attend mass.

rest assured, priests are well trained to hear all kinds of things; unless they’re very new priests, they’ve probably been confronted with this situation before. as i mentioned above, it is happening with alarming frequency. but, if this reassurance doesn’t help, then you can talk to any priest. just call ahead and make an appointment, since this matter might take a little while to resolve.

until such time as your marriage is recognized by the church, your husband is in the same boat as you: you can both attend mass and consider yourself welcome, but you can’t partake of the Eucharist.

I am so blown away by this new information I just don’t know what to do. I seek comfort and prayers from you all but I don’t know what you will all think of this or me … or indeed whether I deserve to still call myself a practicing Catholic.
Any light that can be shed on this would be appreciated
Ness

technically, you’re a separated catholic. that’s okay, because you’re on the right track to come back home to the sacraments. and if anyone judges you, remember what happened when an adultress, caught red-handed, was brought before Jesus. no one has the right to condemn you. just do your best to be at peace with God.

 

[Bflomom]

I think different priests have different views on this issue. My Catholic friend married a divorced man. He was previously married by a Methodist minister. When she went to seek a catholic ceremony, her parish pastor refused to do it as he was married prior and didn’t receive an annulment. The same situation occurred with my aunt 40 years ago.

My husband’s late uncle, who was a Vincentian priest, told her that they were eligible for a catholic ceremony since the Catholic church only considers Catholic ceremonies valid marriages.

Good luck and I pray you don’t lose anymore sleep over this. I was told once by a priest that a sin is a sin only if you know it is a sin before you do the act.

 

[nessie238]

Thank you everyone for your help and understanding - its nice to know that others feel as I do.
I am surprised that if this was such an issue that it wasn’t brought more fully to our attention when we married or when my Husband went through the RCIA program.
I will be making an appoitment as soon as possible so i can get this sorted out. It has made my husband quite angry (his normal reaction to when I am sad!) - but I just want this fixed - hopefully my Parish priest can help me.
Thanking you all for your prayers, they shall carry me through this

 

[BettyBoop416]

I have seen this subject covered in a few ways on this forum …but wanted clarification for my personal situation. I am beyond gutted and have lost sleep over what I have found out.

First and foremost, I’m sorry you find yourself in this situation. I pray that it can be resolved.

That said, your situation is interesting/confusing because it seems to contain a few twists that I haven’t seen in other situations posted on here before. Just to be clear:

At the time of your wedding, you were Catholic, your husband was not. Your husband had been previously married and divorced. Because of his previous marriage, you could not be married in the Church, so you were married elsewhere. Your children have been baptized and are being raised Catholic. (Here’s where I am confused.) Your husband considered applying for an annulment but never followed through. Nevertheless, he completed RCIA and has been accepted into the Church. Am I correct? If so…wasn’t his marriage situation discussed before he was allowed to enter the Church? It’s my understanding that irregular marriage situations are the number one reason people have difficulty entering the Church. It seems strange that this could be “missed.”

I hate to add to your anxiety, but whoever was in charge of your husband’s RCIA program really dropped the ball and didn’t do anyone any favors when they allowed your husband to enter the Church before resolving his marriage situation. Hopefully you have access to a creative, understanding, proactive priest who will take a sincere interest in your plight. If I understand your situation correctly, you have a bit of a mess to unravel, and having an interested priest in your corner will be a big help.

Prayers for a happy resolution.

(Hopefully 1ke will see this. I’d be interested to get her take on this.)

 

[PaulfromIowa]

I think different priests have different views on this issue…

they were eligible for a catholic ceremony since the Catholic church only considers Catholic ceremonies valid marriages…

Not quite correct. The Catholic Church recognizes Protestant marriages, i.e. between two Protestants, as valid sacramental marriages if the couple is properly disposed. However, a Catholic who marries outside the Catholic Church without prior authorization from his bishop commits a grave sin and that marriage is considered invalid by the Church. Those Catholics in invalid marriages can have them convalidated by the Church, except, of course, where one is already in a valid sacramental marriage. Hence, the need for a decree of nullity of the previous marriage.

 

[nessie238]

Just an update for everybody.
We did go and see our Parish Priest and it’s the first thing I should have done instead of losing sleep over it all. He was so very understanding and helpful. Telling us that we are living as a Catholic family and a Catholic couple - upholding marriage vows and being good parents, and told us that God couldn’t possibly have a problem with that. He told us that the church is starting to change its views and most definitely in our Parish. He gave us both a blessing which would allow me to again receive communion. He will give us an Anniversary Blessing this year on our wedding anniversary and is putting things in motion for us to one day be married in our Catholic Church.
I feel so blessed to be part of such an understanding and loving Parish community.
Thank you all again for your help, love and support.
God Bless
Ness :heaven:

 

[BettyBoop416]

Just an update for everybody.
We did go and see our Parish Priest… He told us that the church is starting to change its views and most definitely in our Parish. He gave us both a blessing which would allow me to again receive communion.

Waiting for the inevitable arrival of the naysayers.

 

[littlechicken]

Something is off here…

 

[LilyM]

Just an update for everybody.
We did go and see our Parish Priest and it’s the first thing I should have done instead of losing sleep over it all. He was so very understanding and helpful. Telling us that we are living as a Catholic family and a Catholic couple - upholding marriage vows and being good parents, and told us that God couldn’t possibly have a problem with that. He told us that the church is starting to change its views and most definitely in our Parish. He gave us both a blessing which would allow me to again receive communion. He will give us an Anniversary Blessing this year on our wedding anniversary and is putting things in motion for us to one day be married in our Catholic Church.
I feel so blessed to be part of such an understanding and loving Parish community.
Thank you all again for your help, love and support.
God Bless
Ness :heaven:

I’m glad your priest is putting things in motion - meaning hopefully in motion towards annulment of previous marriage and then convalidation of your current marriage.

As for the receiving communion - church law on the need for a valid and sacramental marriage and the necessity for people in irregular marital situations to refrain from communion unless living as brother and sister has never changed and will never change, and no blessing of your priest can do away with the requirement that you live only as brother and sister unless and until you are in a marriage that is BOTH valid AND sacramental - which yours is at least not the latter.

I only say this for your information - it may well be that you are indeed resolved on living chastely until your marriage is regularized, so I am passing no judgement here (except on the possibly somewhat ill chosen words of your priest).

 

[LilyM]

Waiting for the inevitable arrival of the naysayers.

Taint a forum without us dadgummed naysayer curmudgeonly types, is it

 

[Phemie]

Something is off here…

I agree, but I’ve seen this type of thing before.

A couple were attending Mass in our parish for a year, never receiving Communion. He had previously divorced and they had only a civil marriage in their country before military service sent him over here. Now he’d been granted a decree of nullity but they still hadn’t convalidated their marriage.

Then the K of C came calling and because of his irregular marriage situation he couldn’t join. Enter the bishop who gave them some kind of blessing and presto, they were receiving Communion and he’s KofC. No convalidation recorded and the Bishop made it clear that they had to convalidate their marriage when they returned to their country. Not even the Pastor could explain what had happened. No canon lawyer I talked to could explain it either. I’m still confused about this 8 years later. Seemed like there’s a rule of some and a different rule for others.

 

[nessie238]

Well I am sorry if you don’t agree with my Priest … But I am thinking he must know what he is saying/doing - he is consulting with other priests and contacting the people he needs to. I think it a little odd that people can question his actions and or blessings ?
I am by no means giving myself a free pass and I pray continuously about my situation but I have been involved in my parish since I was baptized in 1974 and if my priest says that my family is living as God would intend in that we are raising our children in a loving caring home and that He wouldn’t want me to stop having communion or feeling bad about my situation, and then he prays with me and comforts me and tells me it will all be ok then you know what? I am going to listen to him … And I am going to feel happy and loved and as much a part of my parish as I felt before I found out about all of this. We are taking steps to fix it and I’m sorry but I can’t feel guilty about that.
Oh, and I am glad no one is passing judgement here, as it wouldn’t be very Catholic of anyone to do so, now would it?!

 

[ValPal]

Well I am sorry if you don’t agree with my Priest … But I am thinking he must know what he is saying/doing - he is consulting with other priests and contacting the people he needs to. I think it a little odd that people can question his actions and or blessings ?

Don’t take it the wrong way, but marital situations like yours are common and the Church has guidelines on this matter. The Church’s position has not changed at all. Some priests act on there own, contrary to the Church’s position, in some matters. This can be readily confirmed by contacting the bishop’s office; you’ll find that he’ll have a different position from your priest.

The one thing I find very odd about your situation is that your husband reputedly converted when you were in this situation. Irregular marriages are handled as part of RCIA, so I don’t understand how he could have converted without this being addressed.

As far as your current situation goes, you can attend attend Church. You will not be able to receive the Eucharist unless you go to Confession and agree to live as brother and sister until your marriage is regularized.

FWIW, I’ve been through an annulment and convalidation so I’m no stranger to all this. It’s a pain in the neck, but necessary if you want to fully participate in the Church. Good luck!

 

[Phemie]

Well I am sorry if you don’t agree with my Priest … But I am thinking he must know what he is saying/doing - he is consulting with other priests and contacting the people he needs to. I think it a little odd that people can question his actions and or blessings ?

It’s just that the Church has this to say on the topic in FAMILIARIS CONSORTIUM

c) Catholics in Civil Marriages
82. There are increasing cases of Catholics who for ideological or practical reasons, prefer to contract a merely civil marriage, and who reject or at least defer religious marriage. Their situation cannot of course be likened to that of people simply living together without any bond at all, because in the present case there is at least a certain commitment to a properly-defined and probably stable state of life, even though the possibility of a future divorce is often present in the minds of those entering a civil marriage. By seeking public recognition of their bond on the part of the State, such couples show that they are ready to accept not only its advantages but also its obligations. Nevertheless, not even this situation is acceptable to the Church.
**The aim of pastoral action will be to make these people understand the need for consistency between their choice of life and the faith that they profess, and to try to do everything possible to induce them to regularize their situation in the light of Christian principle. While treating them with great charity and bringing them into the life of the respective communities, the pastors of the Church will regrettably not be able to admit them to the sacraments.
**

and

e***) Divorced Persons Who Have Remarried***
84. (…)Similarly, the respect due to the sacrament of Matrimony, to the couples themselves and their families, and also to the community of the faithful, forbids any pastor, for whatever reason or pretext even of a pastoral nature, to perform ceremonies of any kind for divorced people who remarry. Such ceremonies would give the impression of the celebration of a new sacramentally valid marriage, and would thus lead people into error concerning the indissolubility of a validly contracted marriage.