Classical Christian Education -- The Trivium

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dts,

From my understanding, the Bishop is approaching the University in a completely fresh way. The only thing that they are still considering from those articles is the land. The land has been donated, and it will be out in the West Valley, past Litchfield Park near the White Tank Mountains.

The Bishop has appointed Msgr. Dale Fushek to be the “project manager.” My girlfriend’s parents are good friends with Msgr. Dale, and they say that Bishop Olmsted wants Msgr. Dale to pursue all options.
 
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dts:
I have followed the group in Moscow, Idaho closely and continue to do so. But, as you indicated they are Reformed and Catholic schools may not become members of the accrediting association per the statement of faith which references sola scripture and sola fide.
Amen. I was unable to sign the document you reference, and NO orthodox Catholic school can join their association without violating their Faith, though we are still free to attend training there. I honestly think we were the first Catholics that had ever come, and our entire faculty was there.
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dts:
I am disappointed in Catholics for largely abandoning Classical Christian education. It appears they have, in many ways, forsaken their heritage for modern pop psychology.
Amen again. In my research I have been astonished at the connections between the loss of classical education (and subsequently of logical thought) and the decline of American society (actually Western societies in general, though I hesitate to generalize). ** I am passionate about reinstating this form of education.** It is beginning to “catch on”, if you will, though far more in Evangelical circles than in Catholic ones. We do indeed have a real opportunity here to reclaim a piece of our lost Catholic heritage, and one that naturally leads people BACK into the Faith rather than away from it.

One problem with Classical education is that so few people are currently educated themselves in this manner, so it takes quite a learning curve to train to teach in this manner. But honestly, for me it has been a JOY! Teaching this way is SO MUCH MORE FUN, both for student and for teacher.

On the comment about lack of concrete results, that is also a problem for some people. Our society demands quantifiable evidence of “progress in the classroom”. A quick look at any of our state public schools system proves that, 99% of the time, teachers there are all but forced to “teach to the test”: they better produce students who score well on mandated state testing to “prove” that a “good education” is occuring and the taxpayers are getting their money’s worth.

Granted, yes, we need decent schools accountable to those who fund them, but churning out students who can score well on a state test is NOT the same thing as giving students a good education. We need to get that communicated first before people will begin to understand classical education’s many advantages.

Whoooo boy 😃 I better get down off my soapbox here. LOLOL! I could go on all day. I even have a paper somewhere on my computer (several pages long) about why Latin is critical to classical education. 👍 Pax Vobiscum!
 
Whoooo boy 😃 I better get down off my soapbox here. LOLOL! I could go on all day. I even have a paper somewhere on my computer (several pages long) about why Latin is critical to classical education. 👍 Pax Vobiscum!
**My answer: **

(1) These languages form much of the basis for English and other modern languages. An understanding of Greek and Latin will lead to an enhanced ability to use modern languages more effectively. (2) Many of The Great Books of Western Civilization and works of the Christian church have been written in one of these languages. While translations exist, they are no substitute for the actual words of the author. (3) Training in Greek or Latin provides a formidable opportunity to enhance a students understanding of grammar, logic, and rhetoric at a level rarely achieved in academic settings that exclude these languages

Tracy Lee Simmons answer in Climbing Parnassus: A New Apologia for Greek and Latin
amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1882926730/ref=ase_classicalch07-20/103-3715496-1524667?v=glance&s=books

“Every lesson in Latin is a lesson in logic…Taking the simple two-word Latin sentence Vellem mortuos (“I would that they were dead”), … this sentence aright requires fourteen intellectual turns. A student must know (1) the person, (2) tense, (3) voice, (4) number, (5) mood of the verb…, (6) it comes from volo, meaning (7) ‘I wish’; and that (8) the subjunctive has here a particular shade of meaning. As to mortuos, he must know that it is (9) the accusative, (10) plural, (11) masculine, from (12) mortuus, meaning (13) ‘dead’; (14) the reason why the accusative is necessary… A student who slips up on any one of these steps is bound to make a lovely mess when he comes to translate… In Latin you must be absolutely right, or you are not right at all… Can anyone seriously maintain that such stiff training in just expression leaves no salutary marks upon the intellect of someone who, having successfully run its gauntlet, becomes captive to the habits of the precise mind?”
 
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dts:
“Every lesson in Latin is a lesson in logic . In Latin you must be absolutely right, or you are not right at all… Can anyone seriously maintain that such stiff training in just expression leaves no salutary marks upon the intellect of someone who, having successfully run its gauntlet, becomes captive to the habits of the precise mind?”
OH that’s an EXCELLENT example. Yes, Latin is primarily a logical exercise. I have personally experienced several moments during my teaching of English grammar lessons when a student will suddenly understand something BECAUSE of the connection to Latin class, for example the difference between active and passive voice.

To put into into modern lingo, “Classical education rocks!” 👍
 
MakerTeacher,

Did you look at the College of Saint Justin Martyr that I linked to in a post above? The site is here:

saintjustinmartyr.org

Tell me what you think about their vision etc. . . .
 
I am homeschooling using The Trivium. My oldest is 81/2, and has recently begun Latin with her dad. Right now I am in the interesting situation of babysitting three Catholic school educated children for a week. I am doing school through the summer, and am including our charges in our daily work. The oldest is a 9 year old girl (best friends w/my daughter). From our first lesson together I noticed a few interesting things, which I understand can be attributed to personality differences, but I thought interesting just the same.

First, My daughter adn the younger children were much more addept at memory work than the 9 year old. My understanding is that memory is like a muscle that needs to be excercised to be strong. The latin adn greek roots we reviewed, and poems we worked on did not easily stay in my visitors brain.

Second, my daughter seemed more able to give specific answers to questions than the catholic schooled girl. I had a sense of a desire for her to find the easy answer.

And third–I play a word game sometimes with the latin and greeks roots in which we build our own words–eg hypnoquad–a group of four sleeping people. Visiting girl had a hard time grasping the concept of word build altogether.

I think these are all very concrete!! I love using this philosophy of education, and am happy with the results.
 
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dts:
MakerTeacher,

Did you look at the College of Saint Justin Martyr that I linked to in a post above? The site is here:

saintjustinmartyr.org

Tell me what you think about their vision etc. . . .
Fascinating. And exciting.

I am especially intrigued with the idea that they do not offer specialized degrees, "The curriculum will be a fixed one for all students; in other words, there will be neither majors nor electives. For it is a tenet of the College that there is a basic and objective canon that constitutes the essential education of the human person." Amen and amen.

We need more truly Catholic Universities out there. I hope this one makes it off the ground.
 
This thread is from 2004. Holy moly, 7 years ago?! That has got to be a record.
 
This thread is from 2004. Holy moly, 7 years ago?! That has got to be a record.
I still don’t know why resurrecting old threads bothers people so much. You’re not the first. I haven’t been able to find a CAF rule forbidding it. Is there one? I think it is better than starting the same post over again, isn’t it?
 
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