Cleaning and Psychology

[Cat]

I think we have to be careful not to ascribe too much “psychology” or “spirituality” to cleaning.

IMO, a lot of it has to do with how we’re raised. I’ve seen it work several ways:

1. A person raised in a neat home is neat.
2. A person raised in a neat home is messy.
3. A person raised in a messy home is messy.
4. A person raised in a messy home is neat.

I also think that we all develop certain habits that are hard to break. E.g., if you have habitually thrown your coat over the first available piece of furniture instead of hanging it up in a closet or on a rack, then it’s hard to change your ways.

Sometimes practical reasons dictate the standard of cleanliness.

E.g., in this weather, with so much snow (and salt), it would be next to impossible to keep floors clean. I have several mats near my entrances, and I have towels to throw the snowy boots and shoes on. But snow/salt still gets tracked into the house, and I simply refuse to worry about it until the snow is gone. I’ll clean up major messes, but I don’t expect my floors to be shining and spotless!

E.g., children make it very difficult to keep a neat, clean home. Parents have to agree to a basic standard of cleanliness, but honestly, it is not necessary to keep picking up and wiping up constantly. What’s more important, your little one or your house?

E.g., an older home is often harder to keep clean because of the materials used in building the house. Old flooring often has nicks and grooves that hold onto the dirt. Same for old wall-coverings–you can’t just swish some Fantastic across plaster or old wall-paper. And old windows are not made to be easily-cleaned. Old sinks and tubs often have worn-down enamel and look dingy even after a scrubbing.

And then there’s the time factor. In many families, people aren’t home much, and it’s hard to keep a house clean when you’re not home to clean it. My personal opinion is–Live life! Go out and join the symphony, or train for a half-marathon, or take guitar lessons or whatever. These things are more important than smudge-free windows and sparkling counter tops!

 

[DebChris]

I think we have to be careful not to ascribe too much “psychology” or “spirituality” to cleaning.

IMO, a lot of it has to do with how we’re raised. I’ve seen it work several ways:

1. A person raised in a neat home is neat.
2. A person raised in a neat home is messy.
3. A person raised in a messy home is messy.
4. A person raised in a messy home is neat.

I also think that we all develop certain habits that are hard to break. E.g., if you have habitually thrown your coat over the first available piece of furniture instead of hanging it up in a closet or on a rack, then it’s hard to change your ways.

Sometimes practical reasons dictate the standard of cleanliness.

E.g., in this weather, with so much snow (and salt), it would be next to impossible to keep floors clean. I have several mats near my entrances, and I have towels to throw the snowy boots and shoes on. But snow/salt still gets tracked into the house, and I simply refuse to worry about it until the snow is gone. I’ll clean up major messes, but I don’t expect my floors to be shining and spotless!

E.g., children make it very difficult to keep a neat, clean home. Parents have to agree to a basic standard of cleanliness, but honestly, it is not necessary to keep picking up and wiping up constantly. What’s more important, your little one or your house?

E.g., an older home is often harder to keep clean because of the materials used in building the house. Old flooring often has nicks and grooves that hold onto the dirt. Same for old wall-coverings–you can’t just swish some Fantastic across plaster or old wall-paper. And old windows are not made to be easily-cleaned. Old sinks and tubs often have worn-down enamel and look dingy even after a scrubbing.

And then there’s the time factor. In many families, people aren’t home much, and it’s hard to keep a house clean when you’re not home clean it. My personal opinion is–Live life! Go out and join the symphony, or train for a half-marathon, or take guitar lessons or whatever. These things are more important than smudge-free windows and sparkling counter tops!

I’ll have to find it, but this post has me thinking about the poem related to watching the child grow rather being overly concerned about how clean the house is.
I have seen too that some homes are more forgiving when it comes to cleanliness. As mentioned, I am very erratic when it comes to cleaning. I did come from a home with high expectations. The floors, waxed weekly, were like mirrors. Saturday morning was time for the GI party. I didn’t like to miss school partly because my mother would have me help her with the housework if I did stay home.
In some homes, if you don’t clean immediately, the bugs will emerge, so there is no choice. As a teenager, I had to clean my bedroom wall with Lysol every week to keep the black mold in check. These are realities.
I have lived in places where I spent a day, put my things away, and simply swept the floor or vacuumed the rug and nobody would have imagined how tossed around it was the day before. It’s not as if I even rushed when I cleaned.
I am not messy because I want to be messy. I enjoy coming home to a neat and tidy home. I can’t even say that I hate housework, although I hated doing dishes as a child. Not only did it take me forever to get them done, I could never meet expectations, but I was also allergic to the dish-washing detergent . I actually liked the satisfaction I gleaned from waxing the floor or polishing furniture. There is much more to life than housework. Those other things come before housework.
Jeff Campbell’s Speed Cleaning techniques are great for anybody looking for more time to enjoy life. BTW I had 4 brothers and 4 sisters. I was number 7.

 

[mommy_k]

I just wanted to explain my previous post because it doesn’t sound like it applies in this case. The key word is extreme in either way, and when someone spends all day re- cleaning or has a truly unsafe home-think hoarders- then it is a problem.

 

[EasterJoy]

I understand what you are saying and I trust that when you go to a friend’s who is not as organized as you, you have no problem with it. But my roommates would always make comments such as 'how can you live like that when I actually kept my bedroom door closed

I’ve also heard parents say things to their children like “if you are messy, no one will want to live with you.” Well, some people won’t want to live with you if you’re a slob, this is true, and it can even include other slobs. (We all know the “my stuff is stuff, your stuff is c$%p *” attitude!)

Other people would rather live with a slob than with someone who is constantly judging and picking at those they live with. Certainly it is hard to defend a love of order that is put before living in peace and charity with others. Both are worthwhile, but those are backward priorities.

As for “how can you live like that?”, it is just as fair to ask, “Do you always obsess about how other people manage in a way that is different than you do? How do you live like that? Doesn’t it wear you out?”*

 

[EasterJoy]

Anglewannabe said:

“I am simply trying to point out that for some people cleaningliness is related to emotional issues and I am the opposite of some of my past roommates”

And extreme messiness may also be related to emotional or psychiatric issues.

I like the FlyLady because she takes good care to make sure you don’t use the desire for a clean home as an excuse to be hard on yourself or on your family.

Consider this parable:

• “When an unclean spirit goes out of a person it roams through arid regions searching for rest but finds none. Then it says, ‘I will return to my home from which I came.’ But upon returning, it finds it empty, swept clean, and put in order. Then it goes and brings back with itself seven other spirits more evil than itself, and they move in and dwell there; and the last condition of that person is worse than the first. Thus it will be with this evil generation.”* Matt. 12:43-45

He was not literally talking about a clean home, but the point is well-taken. The idea of doing routine housework is to be a good steward of our belongings and to foster a sense of serenity and peace. The moment the desire for a clean home is put ahead of the desire to express the love of God, it becomes a place that welcomes Pride, which is a very evil spirit, indeed. Expelling Sloth only to welcome Pride to take its place is not an improvement!! Neither will keeping a clean home expel the demon that could be called “Fear of Being Judged.” That accuser can never be appeased, and is only expelled by calling on the saving blood of Christ to cover us.

 

[marymary1975]

I have one very organized, very neat grandma and my mom, who is definitely a messie. The ironic thing is that my grandma values neatness and cleanliness for its own sake and just can’t stand seeing something not right (I once had to stop her from sweeping up the leaves that were falling in a very steady stream on our patio–you could have spent all day and the next several days just sweeping). In my grandma’s case, it is not done for other people.

On the other hand, there’s my mom (my grandma’s DIL). She, on the other hand, is all about keeping up appearances, but she generally only cleans when other people are coming. So, given her embarrassment about the state of her house, she rarely invites people over, which means that the house gets worse, which means that she doesn’t have people over, which means that she doesn’t clean or organize, etc. Pretty much a spiral of doom. She has gotten better recently, after a daughter told her no grandkids would be visiting if things didn’t improve (the kitty litter/cobweb/cat hair situation was getting frightening).

I am not the housekeeper my grandma still is, but one thing I have done is to move beyond the gotta-clean-company-coming thing. We need a clean house not because company is coming, but because we deserve a clean, pleasant, orderly home.

Oh my Xantippe this is very close to how my mother and my grandma are. My grandma is a neat freak my mother is a hoarder and so messy. I still can’t understand how my mother ended up like that with my grandma lol. I ended up being quite clean as my grandma (she raised me for the most part too) and I have difficulty putting up with my mother’s mess. My grandma says the same we need a clean house because we deserve to live in a pleasant looking home. She also says that cleanliness shows the state of your mind…she always says that my mother is depressed and her mess is product of depression and her state of mind. But well so far I am trying to help my mother get better but is very hard ufff!

 

[bcuster]

It’s a good possibility. As a self declared “messie”, I have found several good books out there that talk about the various reasons behind our issue with doing what seems “normal” and “easy” to others (aka “cleanies”). I suggest checking your public library for books by Cindy Glovinsky or Sandra Felton.

((Hugs))

Thank you for the book suggestions. I have challenges in this area, also.

 

[Cricket2]

The folks that concern me most of all would be hoarders. I have watched a few of the shows that present such cases, and know of one such person. I find it hard to understand how anyone can be so oblivious to the kind of filth and clutter they live in. Hoarding is a sign of significant emotional disorder.

The person I know who hoards was homeless at one time. I think that part of her problem lies in that experience and whatever caused that situation in the first place. Still it is unbelievable that she lives like she does.

 

[pensmama87]

The folks that concern me most of all would be hoarders. I have watched a few of the shows that present such cases, and know of one such person. I find it hard to understand how anyone can be so oblivious to the kind of filth and clutter they live in. Hoarding is a sign of significant emotional disorder.

The person I know who hoards was homeless at one time. I think that part of her problem lies in that experience and whatever caused that situation in the first place. Still it is unbelievable that she lives like she does.

My mother, her sister, and their uncle are all hoarders (as was my great-grandmother.) One of my sisters and my brother exhibit signs of it as well, as does a cousin. As far as I know, there wasn’t any significant trauma that triggered the behavior except in the case of my great grandma, who lived through the Depression.

I agree that it’s a sign of an emotional disorder, and I can see how an experience like the Great Depression or homelessness could trigger it, but I would just add to your post that I think there’s very likely a genetic component as well, in addition to a kind of learned behavior. I have two sisters - one of them hoards, and one of them doesn’t, though she used to be stereotypically “messy.” Once she lived in her own apartment, she learned how to be more organized and clean, but she’d never had guidance on that growing up. Once she learned she could keep her own space differently, she had relatively little problem doing that. My other sister, though, has a great deal of difficulty with that, as does my brother. I was always fastidious and continue to be so today - and it caused a surprising amount of conflict at home that I wanted to clean (only in a hoarder’s home would a child get into trouble for cleaning! )

 

[Cricket2]

My mother, her sister, and their uncle are all hoarders (as was my great-grandmother.) One of my sisters and my brother exhibit signs of it as well, as does a cousin. As far as I know, there wasn’t any significant trauma that triggered the behavior except in the case of my great grandma, who lived through the Depression.

I agree that it’s a sign of an emotional disorder, and I can see how an experience like the Great Depression or homelessness could trigger it, but I would just add to your post that I think there’s very likely a genetic component as well, in addition to a kind of learned behavior. I have two sisters - one of them hoards, and one of them doesn’t, though she used to be stereotypically “messy.” Once she lived in her own apartment, she learned how to be more organized and clean, but she’d never had guidance on that growing up. Once she learned she could keep her own space differently, she had relatively little problem doing that. My other sister, though, has a great deal of difficulty with that, as does my brother. I was always fastidious and continue to be so today - and it caused a surprising amount of conflict at home that I wanted to clean (only in a hoarder’s home would a child get into trouble for cleaning! )

I think your right. I do know they associate obsessive compulsive disorder with hoarding, so there is probably a genetic component. I am glad to hear that you don’t seem to have a problem with hoarding. And yes, imagine getting in trouble for wanting to clean! Most kids try to escape those kind of chores.

 

[marymary1975]

The folks that concern me most of all would be hoarders. I have watched a few of the shows that present such cases, and know of one such person. I find it hard to understand how anyone can be so oblivious to the kind of filth and clutter they live in. Hoarding is a sign of significant emotional disorder.

The person I know who hoards was homeless at one time. I think that part of her problem lies in that experience and whatever caused that situation in the first place. Still it is unbelievable that she lives like she does.

My mother is a hoarder. She has not gotten to the state of people in those shows because my grandmother goes to her place and starts cleaning and throwing stuff away. My mother gets furious. If it would be up to her you couldn’t even walk through her place.

I agree hoarding is sign of an emotional disorder.

 

[Cricket2]

My mother is a hoarder. She has not gotten to the state of people in those shows because my grandmother goes to her place and starts cleaning and throwing stuff away. My mother gets furious. If it would be up to her you couldn’t even walk through her place.

I agree hoarding is sign of an emotional disorder.

I am sorry to hear this. My sister, brother and I are sure our dad is pretty close to being what they call an organized hoarder. It has taken years for him to let me go through the paperwork and toss it, and he admits he can’t sort through the mail without wanting to keep all of it. Uhg. It is a hard thing to manage, but with my brother living with him things are kept fairly cleared up. There house is a real bachelors pad however. Eeek!

Some of hoarding has to be rooted in fear of having nothing and materialism. I am not suggesting I want to be out on the street, but life experience has put me close and I do not fear it like I used to. This helps me not acquire a lot of extras and thus maybe be less prone to hoarding.