Cleansing of the Temple: Before or after Palm Sunday?

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patrick457:
  • they’ve got more knowledge and expertise than us amateurs who just pretend to know stuff and hide behind the keyboard. 😉 🤷
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Im glad to know you are human Patrick. For a while there I was worried you might have been the Pope. :frighten:
 
I don’t buy it. If they are so far above us they should want to come on this forum and set everyone straight.

Here, Jimmy Jimmy!

C’Mon boy!

Come to Sacred Scriptures now!
 
Steve, wouldn’t it just be easier if you just contacted him personally rather than make a post which he might never see? 🤷
 
Cyberseeker said:
People say that because Jesus’ ministry began and ended on Passover. Since John only mentions three Passovers, the span in-between them appears to be only 2 years. However, there is also reason to believe that Jesus avoided going to the AD 29 Passover. (assuming he died in AD30) and, if so, the span between John’s cleansing of the temple, and the synoptic’s cleansing would have been 3 years afterall. That’s how I see it.
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Wasn’t He an observant Jew? Back then, if you failed to go to the featsts you were considered karet that is unclean. Jesus would have only attended 3 Passovers unless the incident at Bethesda was the second Passover.
 
Yes, that was the general rule, but not necessarily always so. Galilee to Jerusalem was quite a hike, so poor Jews there tried to get to one feast per year - not all of them. When Jesus started going to his final Passover (Nisan AD 30) his disciples were astonished. Clearly they supposed he would miss it, as he had (my opinion) in AD 29. The gospels reveal plots to kill Jesus in the latter part of his ministry if he visited Jerusalem. However, he avoids their efforts until the right time. If that meant missing a feast, then that is what he had to do!

Now, a question for you JB Bro. In Luke 13:1, visitors to Jesus tell him the news of a massacre of Galilean pilgrims to the temple. It happened late in Jesus’ ministry. My question is this: why did they share this news if Jesus had been at the feast himself? Could it be that the massacre occurred on one of the occasions when Jesus missed attending - Passover or Tabernacles, AD 29?
 
Cyberseeker said:
Yes, that was the general rule, but not necessarily always so. Galilee to Jerusalem was quite a hike, so poor Jews there tried to get to one feast per year - not all of them. When Jesus started going to his final Passover (Nisan AD 30) his disciples were astonished. Clearly they supposed he would miss it, as he had (my opinion) in AD 29. The gospels reveal plots to kill Jesus in the latter part of his ministry if he visited Jerusalem. However, he avoids their efforts until the right time. If that meant missing a feast, then that is what he had to do!

Now, a question for you JB Bro. In Luke 13:1, visitors to Jesus tell him the news of a massacre of Galilean pilgrims to the temple. It happened late in Jesus’ ministry. My question is this: why did they share this news if Jesus had been at the feast himself? Could it be that the massacre occurred on one of the occasions when Jesus missed attending - Passover or Tabernacles, AD 29?
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You mean the aqueduct incident?

The Pharisees weren’t astonished when he came on A.D. 30. That doesn’t prove anything.
 
JB_Brother_4446 said:
You mean the aqueduct incident?
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No, the incident where Pilate mingled the blood of the Galileans with their sacrifices. It is not mentioned in secular history as far as I know. Whatever the details, my question is, why should they tell Jesus all about it, if he had been in Judea to hear the news firsthand?

The implication is that he was not there, so his visitors told him.
 
Cyberseeker said:
No, the incident where Pilate mingled the blood of the Galileans with their sacrifices. It is not mentioned in secular history as far as I know. Whatever the details, my question is, why should they tell Jesus all about it, if he had been in Judea to hear the news firsthand?

The implication is that he was not there, so his visitors told him.
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That incident might actually be linked to the aqueduct incident.
 
OK, they might have been linked. Poor Pilate. Just trying to improve the water supply. Oh the joys of being a politician. 😦
 
Cyberseeker said:
OK, they might have been linked. Poor Pilate. Just trying to improve the water supply. Oh the joys of being a politician. 😦
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“What have the Romans ever done for us?” (Obligatory Monty Python reference ;))
 
Piling on the Romans to blame for the Crucifixion and later persecutions and all sorts of bad things?

Politically correct, but not actually correct.

That’s the takeaway from a close reading of Josephus- which corroborates a lot of the anti-Jewish material in the NT.

The Jews were bad guys. It was the Romans who tried to protect the Christians as best they could.

In a five-year span, the Temple priests orchestrated the execution of the Christian leadership in Jerusalem, and were behind the persecution of the Christians in Rome which resulted in the deaths of Paul and Peter- and probably Luke.

In my opinion, that is not more widely known because the Jews remain a political force today and have an interest in revising their history in as positive a light as possible.
 
steve53 said:
Piling on the Romans to blame for the Crucifixion and later persecutions and all sorts of bad things?

Politically correct, but not actually correct.

That’s the takeaway from a close reading of Josephus- which corroborates a lot of the anti-Jewish material in the NT.

The Jews were bad guys. It was the Romans who tried to protect the Christians as best they could.

In a five-year span, the Temple priests orchestrated the execution of the Christian leadership in Jerusalem, and were behind the persecution of the Christians in Rome which resulted in the deaths of Paul and Peter- and probably Luke.

In my opinion, that is not more widely known because the Jews remain a political force today and have an interest in revising their history in as positive a light as possible.
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The death of Stephanos(Stephen) was technically illegal.
 
Stephen insulted the High Priest in no uncertain terms. I believe his term was “uncircumcised heart”, which can be interpreted as comparing the heart of the High Priest who at that time was Jonathan, to the male sex organ- and an uncircumcised one at that.

Not deserving of a stoning?

And this would have been an ad 36 which would be many years before the execution of James the Just in ad 62.
 
steve53 said:
Stephen insulted the High Priest in no uncertain terms. I believe his term was “uncircumcised heart”, which can be interpreted as comparing the heart of the High Priest who at that time was Jonathan, to the male sex organ- and an uncircumcised one at that.

Not deserving of a stoning?

And this would have been an ad 36 which would be many years before the execution of James the Just in ad 62.
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They were so incensed by Stephen they didn’t even wait for the govenor to give permission.
 
Cyberseeker, why do you believe “about 30” means exactly 30? He might have been a year shy of 30 or a year above 30.
 
Well JB, I wouldnt stake my life on exactly, but I think ‘about 30’ means what it says. My estimate of Jesus birth is spring 5 BC (April?) and his baptism, end autumn 26 BC (Nov?), so that would make him 30yrs + 7months.

Forgive me for mentioning this, :o but I have published a book that would interest you. The Atonement Clock is my research on the ancient Sabbatical and Jubilee calendar cycles. It was only possible to find these cycles by closely studying the internal chronologies contained in both Testaments of the Bible. They are related to the coming of Messiah, and tie in with the dates that we are talking about.

I have received a lot of interest, and would appreciate an assessment of my work from a Catholic scholars perspective. I don’t have an online version, but the ‘readers edition’ is quite inexpensive. If a poster on this thread would like to get my ‘academic edition’, please send me a PM and I will provide a coupon.

Amazon here:

My store here:
 
Cyberseeker said:
Well JB, I wouldnt stake my life on exactly, but I think ‘about 30’ means what it says. My estimate of Jesus birth is spring 5 BC (April?) and his baptism, end autumn 26 BC (Nov?), so that would make him 30yrs + 7months.

Forgive me for mentioning this, :o but I have published a book that would interest you. The Atonement Clock is my research on the ancient Sabbatical and Jubilee calendar cycles. It was only possible to find these cycles by closely studying the internal chronologies contained in both Testaments of the Bible. They are related to the coming of Messiah, and tie in with the dates that we are talking about.

I have received a lot of interest, and would appreciate an assessment of my work from a Catholic scholars perspective. I don’t have an online version, but the ‘readers edition’ is quite inexpensive. If a poster on this thread would like to get my ‘academic edition’, please send me a PM and I will provide a coupon.

Amazon here:

My store here:
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Cyberseeker

From one of your reviews:
*
I have recently finished reading, “The Atonement Clock” by Christian Gedge. It is a fascinating investigation into unique chronological patterns found in the Bible, which relate to long-forgotten insights from the Book of Enoch of an ancient system able to synchronize the prophetic 360-day year, the 364.14-day lunar year and our 365.24-day solar calendar. *

I don’t think I had ever heard, until now, of either of the first two calendars mentioned here, based on a 360-day year and a 364.14-day year respectively. Can you give me an idea of where these calendars were used, and when?

Thanks
Bart
 
Christmas has started here, so I must be brief. My effort to reconcile Enochian literature to our Gregorian calendar was similar to that of Jean Carmignac, but I ran into a difficulty and republished an ‘academic version’ of my book last year. You can read my most recent paper on what I believe to be the ancient Hebrew calendar here.

Bart, JB Bro, please check your PMs.
 
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