Cleansing through FIRE

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Mamat

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A friend said Jesus cleansed up of all our sins by dieing for us. I need scripture to clarify how it is that we need to be cleansed in purgatory when Jesus already did it. I have searched the forums but can’t get the answer I need.
 
Using the OT won’t help because she will just say. With the death of Jesus everything changed. He cleansed us! II Maccabees seems to support the teaching on purging after death but that wouldn’t be necessary for humanity after the coming of Christ. See my problem?
 
Did you not read the entire article? The “A Plainer Text” and “The Plainest Text” sections both cite the New Testament. And no, not “everything changed”. Is murder now okay? Is stealing? How about worshipping other gods?
 
Revelation 21:27 “Nothing impure shall enter the Kingdom” If Jesus saved us all, who is it then who remains impure?

Paul urged Christians in 2 Corinthians 5 to b e “reconciled with God”

Paul forgave sins “in the person of Christ” in 2 Corinthians 2:10:

The list goes on and on.

Sadly, your friend has latched onto a false teaching - but those who taught your friend bear the greater sin.
 
Repentance has three parts: contrition, confession, and what the Scriptures call bringing forth fruits worthy of repentance (Cf. Acts 26:20). This latter part the Church refers to as making satisfaction and it is what purgatory is concerned with.

Here’s an analogy: if I steal a five dollar bill from you, I have sinned. I confess my sin with a contrite heart and am forgiven by God. Am I now totally clean? No–I still have the ill-gotten five dollars. I still carry with me that injustice. What is the fruit worthy of my repentance for stealing? To give it back, or, if that is not possible, to give it as alms or make some other amends.

Every sin carries with it some kind of stain of injustice, even if intangible. Christ pays the eternal debt to God we never could, but that does not absolve us of giving to God and expiating from ourselves what we can and should. We can expiate these injustices through our own deeds worthy of repentance (like fasting, prayer, and alms-giving), but also God can and often does send His own chastisements (see e.g. Hebrews 12:4-11). Of course, all of this is only worth anything supernaturally if done in Christ and His grace.

What else is the purpose of Jesus telling us to pick up our crosses and follow Him? If Jesus satisfied all injustice on His cross, we do we still have our own crosses?

The final purification–what we call purgatory–ensures no “stains” of injustice we may not have expiated in this life remain when we enter Heaven, as others have noted above.
 
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All sins can be forgiven through the Cross which Jesus died on. This allows us to enter Heaven. But it isn’t a get out of jail free card either.

All sins have temporal damage that they cause that need to be atoned for. Either they are atoned for on earth through charitable and merciful acts and spreading God’s love or this damage must be atoned in Purgatory.
 
Mamat said:
A friend said Jesus cleansed up of all our sins by dieing for us. I need scripture to clarify how it is that we need to be cleansed in purgatory when Jesus already did it. I have searched the forums but can’t get the answer I need.
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Use some common sense instead of scripture, or in addition to it.
A drowning person who is dragged out of the sea takes some time to recover.
Any of us who are healed must have time to be made completely whole.

Why would salvation be any different. We are purified gradually, we come to see God gradually. Salvation is not like a magic mirror that makes us look instantly perfect.
 
Mamat said:
A friend said Jesus cleansed up of all our sins by dieing for us. I need scripture to clarify how it is that we need to be cleansed in purgatory when Jesus already did it. I have searched the forums but can’t get the answer I need.
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JESUS nailed SIN to the CROSS - Redeeming Man to God…

Still … We have to Live according to God’s Teachings and Commands…

Ergo … the Need for e.g., The GOSPEL.

Salvation is never presented as an over an done with reality…

It shows ongoing and even future SINs. along with speaking of those who shall not enter Heaven UNLESS They RePent of their Sinful Ways.
 
Mamat said:
A friend said Jesus cleansed up of all our sins by dieing for us. I need scripture to clarify how it is that we need to be cleansed in purgatory when Jesus already did it. I have searched the forums but can’t get the answer I need.
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Well, the fact that we will be purified in fire is prevalent in Scripture:

1 Peter 1:7That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

Our faith will be tried by fire.

1 Corinthians 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon. 11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 13 Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is. 14 If any man’s work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

And so will our works. But this is not an either/or situation. Since faith is made perfect by works:

James 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

When our works are tested by fire, it is our faith which is being tested.

And this fire is no ordinary fire.

Hebrews 12:29For our God is a consuming fire.

I hope that helps.
 
Show your protestant friend Luke 12:40-48 (Parable of the comming of the master)

{12:40} Be you then also ready: for at what hour you think not the Son of man will come.
{12:41} And Peter said to him: Lord, dost thou speak this parable to us, or likewise to all?
{12:42} And the Lord said: Who thinkest thou is the faithful and wise steward, whom his lord setteth over his family, to give them their measure of wheat in due season?
{12:43} Blessed is that servant whom, when his lord shall come, he shall find so doing.
{12:44} Verily I say to you, he will set him over all that he possesseth.
{12:45} But if that servant shall say in his heart: My Lord is long a coming; and shall begin to strike the men-servants and maid-servants, and to eat and to drink and be drunk:
{12:46} The lord of that servant will come in the day that he hopeth not, and at the hour that he knoweth not: and shall separate him and shall appoint him his portion with unbelievers.
{12:47} And that servant, who knew the will of his lord and prepared not himself and did not according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
{12:48} But he that knew not and did things worthy of stripes shall be beaten with few stripes. And unto whomsoever much is given, of him much shall be required: and to whom they have committed much, of him they will demand the more.

The point of the parable is to explain what happens when your time on Earth is up and your Lord is comming to collect your soul. The first servent prepared himself and goes to heaven. The second servent knows his master is comming and instead commits many sins. That servent is not only put in with the unbelievers, the latin literally reads that the evil servent will be cut in two, ie killed. Basically that servent dies and goes to hell.

The other two servents show what we understand to be purgatory. The 3rd servent knew the will of his lord (ie obedient and good) but was caught unprepared (ie still had non-mortal sins) was given a severe beating. This servant did not die like the previous one did. This servant is still left alive. Which then makes you think what happens to the servant once the beating stops? One can assume that sense the servant is still left alive after the severe beating he is then admitted into heaven. Just like in purgatory if we are unfortunately caught unprepared (ie unconfessed venial sins) we are to be punished and purged of those sins (ie by the cleansing fire of purgatory). Once our time is up in our punishment ceases, we are Left Alive and therefore are admitted into heaven. We have been purged clean of our sins are able to enter Paradise. Just like how in the Old Testament God would not allow any of his priests to enter God’s presence with even a smidgen of sin on them.

The fourth servant is what we would consider somebody who never knew Jesus and never heard the gospel but was still an objectively good person (authentic invincible ignorance).
 
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