Cleavage

[severus68]

Well if you.go around drawing attention.to your sex, from all & sundry, i guess you cant complain that men are viewing women as sex objects. Cant have it both ways.

What two ways. So a man should only respect and see a woman as a person if she is dressed to some standards set by some?
That is not what the Church teaches.

 

[severus68]

I serve as a usher at Mass. One morning a young woman came with an extremely low-cut. And she was rather, um, well-endowed to boot.

I asked her to leave because she was not appropriately dressed and she gave me some argument about “God doesn’t care how I dress.”

I said “No, God probably doesn’t care but we do.”

She left in a huff and went to complain to the priest who backed me up.

Surely it was not your place to tell anyone to leave a church? So you stopped someone from attending mass - So very wrong in my opinion.

 

[severus68]

Oh please, if cleavage makes you forget that a woman is a person as opposed to an object, you are the one with the problem.

Yes.

 

[PaulGH]

I guess I must be getting old. In my youth a young lady (guess that ages me too) wouldn’t dream of showing cleavage unless it was at a fancy ball and even then, just a hint. I have a job where I look at thousands of photos for church books and I am stunned at how many women wear very low cut and tight fitting tops. Bra straps showing everwhere too.

wow, no only have fashions changed but modestly levels as well I guess.

Speaking as a man who is not yet old, but not exactly young either, I also am bothered by this trend that you have noticed.

Is it the FAULT of a person who doesn’t lock their doors if they are burglarized? Nope. The guilt and blame lies with the burglar. Nobody berates a burglary victim for their insufficient safeguard measures. But lock your doors anyways, folks. Protesting later that it wasn’t your fault doesn’t get your stuff back. Locks don’t 100 guarantee anything either, of course. But they sure help. Modesty is the same way.

Yes. Very well said.

 

[Just_Lurking]

Nobody berates a burglary victim for their insufficient safeguard measures.

As long as it is a case of “legitimate” burglary.

 

[Walking_Home]

What was truth a thousand years ago is the truth today. Fashion changes with the times but not what’s true and the truth is women should not be running around with ¾ of their breasts hanging out of their shirt!

I am a health man and I can tell you that I loose respect for women whenever I see that. It makes you look cheap. Before any of you ladies squeeze yourself into one of those tight, low cut shirts why don’t you think of your sons, fathers, cousins, nephews and all the rest of the male members of your family who don’t want to see your breasts and feel bad when you let them hang out and show them to everybody.

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I wouldn’t call one – who bases respect of a person – on what the person wears – healthy in the heart/mind and spirit. Pray for the Grace – to respect/see the image of God – regardless of what the person wears.

 

[maryjk]

Surely it was not your place to tell anyone to leave a church? So you stopped someone from attending mass - So very wrong in my opinion.

I couldn’t imagine telling someone to leave.

So sad that his priest backed him up.

 

[Walking_Home]

severus68:

Surely it was not your place to tell anyone to leave a church? So you stopped someone from attending mass - So very wrong in my opinion.

I couldn’t imagine telling someone to leave.

So sad that his priest backed him up.

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Agree.

 

[Boy_Wonder]

This type of discussion just makes Catholics look really silly.

We can’t fix others, but we can change how we respond to them. Leave it at that.

 

[Miss_Felicity]

Suppose she had worn a bikini to mass. Should I have not said anything and allowed her to stay?

I wouldn’t say I was proud; just trying to maintain a level of common decency, that’s all.

So. You want to be allowed to wear inappropriate attire to Mass, and if you’re not allowed to you would leave the True Church and go back to one that was founded by dissident Catholics. Why not just exercise some common sense and dress a little more conservatively?

Because you don’t know what someone has to wear. You don’t know what their life circumstances are. You don’t know if someone left an abusive spouse/family situation with the clothes on their back, or if they are a former drug addict, or street walker or misguided youth who is looking for God. We as Christians do not get to be bouncers for God like we are tending a velvet rope outside of a nightclub.

 

[PaulinVA]

I serve as a usher at Mass. One morning a young woman came with an extremely low-cut. And she was rather, um, well-endowed to boot.

I asked her to leave because she was not appropriately dressed and she gave me some argument about “God doesn’t care how I dress.”

I said “No, God probably doesn’t care but we do.”

She left in a huff and went to complain to the priest who backed me up.

I sincerely hope that this woman does not become a millstone around your neck.

 

[severus68]

I couldn’t imagine telling someone to leave.

So sad that his priest backed him up.

Neither would I. I have always looked at God’s house being open to everyone. No one is turned away.

 

[severus68]

---

I wouldn’t call one – who bases respect of a person – on what the person wears – healthy in the heart/mind and spirit. Pray for the Grace – to respect/see the image of God – regardless of what the person wears.

Yes.

 

[Lost_Sheep]

Because you don’t know what someone has to wear. You don’t know what their life circumstances are. You don’t know if someone left an abusive spouse/family situation with the clothes on their back, or if they are a former drug addict, or street walker or misguided youth who is looking for God. We as Christians do not get to be bouncers for God like we are tending a velvet rope outside of a nightclub.

I happened to know this particular woman was a regular. Judging from her car and her wardrobe, she wasn’t exactly poor. And she attended with family.

She was not the sort of person you suggest she could be. You were not there, you are not familiar with this congregation and you are in no position to question my actions.

 

[severus68]

I happened to know this particular woman was a regular. Judging from her car and her wardrobe, she wasn’t exactly poor. And she attended with family.

She was not the sort of person you suggest she could be. You were not there, you are not familiar with this congregation and you are in no position to question my actions.

We can and should question anyone who keeps anyone away from mass.

 

[Lost_Sheep]

We can and should question anyone who keeps anyone away from mass.

Then following this to its logical conclusion, and if, as you say, no one should be turned away, then anyone would be allowed to attend mass regardless of circumstances.

Suppose a bunch of Goth kids come in, cause disruption, and start chanting “Satan is Great! Satan is Great!”. They should be allowed to stay?

Remember the story in the news about the women who pranced around topless as that bishop attempted to pray? Should we allow a bunch of radical feminists to come in and do the same?

The Church is certainly welcome to anyone, but simple decorum is not out of order.

 

[severus68]

Then following this to its logical conclusion, and if, as you say, no one should be turned away, then anyone would be allowed to attend mass regardless of circumstances.

Suppose a bunch of Goth kids come in, cause disruption, and start chanting “Satan is Great! Satan is Great!”. They should be allowed to stay?

Remember the story in the news about the women who pranced around topless as that bishop attempted to pray? Should we allow a bunch of radical feminists to come in and do the same?

The Church is certainly welcome to anyone, but simple decorum is not out of order.

Obviously, not turning anyone away means what it means, not allowing someone who seeks to attend mass to enter or to stay.

BTW Goths for the most do not equate to satanists.

It depends what those rad feminists want to do.

Its God’s house, the rules should be in line with what Christ taught in word and deed.

 

[acadiANNA]

Yes, God loves each of us. We show our love for Him by dressing modestly, Ladies.

 

[DeniseNY]

I wasn’t there so I don’t know the specifics of what happened in this case, so I’m not going to judge how it was handled. But, this makes me think of a piece written by Bishop George Murry of Youngstown, OH (my hometown). There are definitely issues with “bad manners” at Mass - both in dress and in behavior, which I think lead to situations like the one Lost Sheep described.

doyorg.ipage.com/files/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=479:bad-manners-at-church&catid=37:bishops-column&Itemid=54

 

[Nacho45]

So you are saying she is “asking for it?”

What is being said is she is causing another to sin, which is a sin, and should not be done. If its an accidental exposure that’s one thing. If it’s obvious and she knows, which most do, it’s wrong. There is nothing fancy or complicated about this.