Clement of Rome - Sola Fide

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Reading the Christian Classics Ethereal Library Ante Nicene Fathers Volume 1. Clement of Rome Chapter XXXII and XXXIII (pg. 43 and 44) appear to support Sola Fide when read in context with each other. I am looking for sound apologetics on this topic.
 
Reading the Christian Classics Ethereal Library Ante Nicene Fathers Volume 1. Clement of Rome Chapter XXXII and XXXIII (pg. 43 and 44) appear to support Sola Fide when read in context with each other. I am looking for sound apologetics on this topic.
You would be correct in your understanding that he is supporting the doctrine of Sola Fide. We are justified by faith, not by works. His verbiage is echoing Paul in Romans and Ephesians. However, he equally treats the importance of works in the Christian life as a response to God’s grace such as in Chapter 34. This fits in perfectly with what Paul says in Ephesians 2, that we are saved by grace through faith, not through works. However, now being saved and created anew in Christ Jesus, we commence to living out our purpose, which is to accomplish through Christ the works which were prepared for us. This is the biblical and apostolic apologetic.
 
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We know that Catholic theology is a vast domain, including both profound examinations and explanations of justification by faith, but clearly there is a necessary follow up with works of charity. Vast indeed.

So, can we consider that the reformers’ theology is half-vast?
 
This makes sense as I remember what Scott Hahn wrote in his commentary on the book of Romans. Initial justification is by grace through faith apart from works. Yet God judges us in the end by the work wrought through our faith. “Faith without works is dead”. Thank you for your help.
 
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Correct me if I am wrong, but works is love (God’s will for us).
 
So, can we consider that the reformers’ theology is half-vast?
No, because they address the topic as well. If you read the documents created during the Reformation, this was a subject that was frequently addressed. See for example Luther’s Treatise on Good Works or Calvin’s Institutes, both of which discuss the role of works in the Christian life, but doing so from the Biblical position that we are justified by grace through faith.
 
I do not read reform documents for the same reason that I do not read any discredited work. Truth, rather than error should be sought after. As to the nebulous, practically undefinable concept of “Protestantism” - the heavily evolved contemporary versions of which bear almost undetectable resemblance to the thinking of the reformers - there is an overarching dichotomy.

Inherent in the DNA of the “reform” is an almost pathological obsession with defining and reaffirming their teaching on justification. It has been discussed ad nauseam for 500 years and gives no sign of ceasing. It is hashed over and re-hashed as if, by mere repetition, diffusion or osmosis, the questioning or doubting teacher and inquirer will somehow be comforted. If such theology was perfected, explaining the faith so that all would quickly grasp it, one then wonders why justification is the perennial focus.

By way of analogy, humans do not mention during the day that it is daytime. It is obvious and there is no unsettling aspect of the realization. - no need to discuss or analyze it. On the other hand, if one were never certain whether it was daytime or not, the same incessant pattern of examination and inquiry would occur. Clearly, something is missing. A crucial part of the puzzle seems to have been lost in translating the Gospel of Christ into Protestantism.

Could it be the jettisoning of certain Sacraments - in some cases all of the Sacraments? The abandoning of both the sensory and intellectual assurance that one’s sins have been forgiven and the soul is returned to a state of sanctifying grace? I cannot find a more reasonable explanation.

I understand why the subject is so unsettling to so many Protestant hearts.
 
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You would be correct in your understanding that he is supporting the doctrine of Sola Fide. We are justified by faith, not by works. His verbiage is echoing Paul in Romans and Ephesians. However, he equally treats the importance of works in the Christian life as a response to God’s grace such as in Chapter 34. This fits in perfectly with what Paul says in Ephesians 2, that we are saved by grace through faith, not through works. However, now being saved and created anew in Christ Jesus, we commence to living out our purpose, which is to accomplish through Christ the works which were prepared for us. This is the biblical and apostolic apologetic.
This is basically Catholic doctrine, all except using “Sola Fide” (Faith alone). The reason why Catholics reject this phrase is because the only place “faith alone” is used in the New Testament, it is rejected as the basis of our justification: You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone —James 2.

The deeper issue is what is meant by Justification. According to Protestantism, it is a declaration by God – an imputation of righteousness when the sinner is actually guilty. He is a “snow-covered” dung. The Catholic (and Orthodox) say no, that a real transformation occurs. The East calls this deification or theosis. The West calls it sanctifying grace.

This is how James can say works justify: Because they increase the sanctifying transformation of the Christian: an increase in the virtue of charity.

Clement of Rome also doesn’t use “faith alone”/sola fide either. When he says we aren’t justified by works, he means we don’t come into relationship with God through our own effort. But this doesn’t get to the difference between Catholic teaching vs. Protestant “faith alone,” which is mostly about what it means to be justified and what happens after one is initially justified.
  • Let us therefore earnestly strive to be found in the number of those that wait for Him, in order that we may share in His promised gifts. But how, beloved, shall this be done? If our understanding be fixed by faith towards God; if we earnestly seek the things which are pleasing and acceptable to Him; if we do the things which are in harmony with His blameless will; and if we follow the way of truth, casting away from us all unrighteousness and iniquity, along with all covetousness, strife, evil practices, deceit, whispering, and evil-speaking, all hatred of God, pride and haughtiness, vain glory and ambition. For they that do such things are hateful to God. (Chapter 35).
Here it seems that relationship with God is conditional on our continual discipleship.
 
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I do not read reform documents for the same reason that I do not read any discredited work. Truth, rather than error should be sought after.
Considering the source of the doctrine of justification is the Bible as my original statement suggested, the truth of the matter is well documented. I would invite you to perhaps consider that maybe Paul kinda knew what he was talking about.
 
Clement Ch32: All these men, therefore, were highly honoured, and made great, not for their own sake, or for their own works, or for the righteousness which they wrought, but through the operation of His will. And we, too, being called by His will in Christ Jesus, are not justified by ourselves, nor by our own wisdom, or understanding, or godliness, or works which we have wrought in holiness of heart; but by that faith through which, from the beginning, Almighty God has justified all men; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
This passage strongly refutes Protestant faith alone theology. In this passage, Clement is merely echoing what Paul says in Romans 4 and Titus 3:5 and elsewhere: GOOD WORKS DO NOT SAVE US. The reason why is because good works never did save us, they weren’t intended to. Protestants have it entirely backwards: Protestants teach we are saved apart from grace, apart from faith, apart from Jesus, by our own works alone. The reason why they hold to this is because they wrongly think that Adam was supposed to get to heaven by his own abilities, living a life of perfect obedience. This is a Works Alone framework. But since Adam sinned, Protestants say God didn’t change the Works Alone framework, rather God shifted it to someone else. Protestants think, contrary to the Bible, that Jesus lived a life of obedience in our place and “imputed” this perfect obedience to us, so that we would appear before God as if we perfectly kept the law our whole life. Protestants say that since we are sinners, we coudln’t live this life of perfect obedience, so Protestants mistakenly think we simply need to “believe” that Jesus did it for us. But that’s not what “believing” is in the Bible. It isn’t about getting ‘perfect obedience’ tranferred to us. Protestants think that we are saved by good works, just that we need a substitute. Paul and Clement says good works dont save because they never were intended to. Paul never says our works are ‘tainted with sin’ or that we can never be good enough. That’s a Protestant myth. Rather, Paul says we enter a relationship with God by faith, because that’s how God wanted it to happen. And this is precisely what Catholics believe.
 
You cannot be serious. Sola scriptura is the most discredited human idea on earth. Thousands of disagreeing denoms all use the same bible. Mormons use it. Jehovah’s Witnesses use it.

So, you must be a Mormon?

A Jehovah’s Witness?

If not, why not? They are all 100% bible-based. They say that you are wrong.

You cannot disprove their ideas using the bible - they all came from the bible.

So, bearing this in mind, what is wrong with the bible?
 
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Sola Scriptura is wrong because NONE of those groups actually follows the Bible. Only the Catholic Church does. You will never find a single Protestant teaching clearly taught in Scripture. It’s as impossible as having God tell a lie.
 
In truth, sola scriptura is a euphemism, a sanitizing of the fact that it is the ego interpreting. This is dangerous ground to tread on, as pride is the ruler of the ego. If those who hold this man-made doctrine do not or cannot see that, I am truly sorry.

No protestant can defeat the Latter Day Saints (Mormons) or Jehovah’s Witnesses using scripture. Impossible. No Protestant can claim absolute correctness of doctrine, except by the ego, as no divine authority was granted to any of them. They can hold no council, nor decide what scripture is or is not. They implicitly and explicitly trust the Catholic Church for that, and Luther and Calvin for downgrading the Deuterocanonical books. Some foundation.

And there is the crux of the matter. Sola scriptura is neither what Jesus intended nor how He actually founded His Church.
 
You cannot be serious. Sola scriptura is the most discredited human idea on earth. Thousands of disagreeing denoms all use the same bible. Mormons use it. Jehovah’s Witnesses use it.

So, you must be a Mormon?

A Jehovah’s Witness?

If not, why not? They are all 100% bible-based. They say that you are wrong.

You cannot disprove their ideas using the bible - they all came from the bible.

So, bearing this in mind, what is wrong with the bible?
Your misuse of scripture is not the result of scripture not having sufficient clarity to reveal God’s salvific act on behalf of man. It’s the result of your hardness of heart.

Also, don’t lump me in with JW’s or Mormons because their apologetic that the source for doctrinal authority is from a priesthood or organization is far closer to your apologetic than mine, as is their view of Sola Scriptura (JW’s knowing the Bible is clear in its testimony of Christ’s divinity just edit it out; Mormons propose additional revelation that invalidates what the Bible says or say it’s not translated correctly or that there is no clarity to it).
 
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Please take note: The bible does not and cannot interpret. That is a human activity - and in the 1500s (up to this day) certain European egos introduced erroneous and vastly different - unheard of - doctrines regarding the Christian faith.

Your beliefs are obviously very easily accepted and comforting to you. Good on you. I cannot see them as true, since they do not comport with the apostolic teaching or with the early Church or with Christian history. Jesus did not teach any sort of writing as a foundation, or as a resource to solve disputes - the Council of Jerusalem in Acts 15 proves that.

I have not lumped you in with anyone - YOU have! How? By self-interpreting the bible alone, apart from any divinely appointed authority. The Mormons do that. The JWs do that. The SDA do that. The Primitive Baptists do that. The Methodists do that. Hundreds - thousands - of scattered denominations all do that.

You assert this is how Jesus intended for the faith to be passed on? If so, that is not written anywhere in the bible. How to explain this?

The question remains: How can you disprove the Mormons or JWs?

Problem.

This is Protestantism’s elephant in the living room.
 
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The question remains: How can you disprove the Mormons or JWs?
No, the problem remains how do YOU disprove Mormons or JWs. You are offering one manmade authority against another. I can demonstrate through the plain meaning of scripture whether Christ is revealed as divine when speaking with a JW, or I can demonstrate that there is only one God when speaking to a Mormon. They will in turn frequently reject that based on revelation from their source of authority (which is your apologetic response by the way), however, this can still be demonstrated objectively through exegesis of scripture.
This is Protestantism’s elephant in the living room.
If you say so. I actually find this to be a strength of Protestantism. It has the capacity for self-correction.

Anyway, all this is off-topic. Any comments on Clement’s Letter?
 
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We are justified by faith, not by works
‘Works of the law’ we are not justified by. In other words, we are not justified by works performed ‘of ourselves’ through the strict merits of the law. However, when you are Baptized and grafted into Christ, being infused with His Holy Spirit, you are not longer ‘under the law’ but ‘under grace’, and it is under the auspices of grace that we can cooperate with His Spirit within us to perform grace-infused works bringing our faith to completion, hence “we are justified by works and not by faith alone” (James 2:24).

There are two types of works, @Hodos; a.) those done without grace, and b.) those done with grace; the former are the type of works Saint Paul condemns! The latter are the ones both he and Saint James advocate!

This is the Apostolic Tradition that Luther et. al. were very seemingly spiritually blind to once they rejected the authority of the Magisterium. This is why Luther uprooted the book of Saint James and re-planted it into an non-inspired appendix in his ‘bible’. This is why Luther added ‘allein’ (alone) to Romans 3:28 in his translation. The guy privately interpreted ‘works of the law’ to mean any kind of work, even those done with sanctifying grace; that is heresy, always has been, and always will be.
 
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There are two types of works, @Hodos; a.) those done without grace, and b.) those done with grace; the former are the type of works Saint Paul condemns! The latter are the ones both he and Saint James advocate!
Feel free to demonstrate this whole line of reasoning from the text.
 
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There are two types of works, @Hodos; a.) those done without grace, and b.) those done with grace; the former are the type of works Saint Paul condemns! The latter are the ones both he and Saint James advocate!
Feel free to demonstrate this whole line of reasoning from the text.
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works (Eph. 2:8-9 ESV)

Did you notice the words I highlighted, ‘And this is not your OWN DOING’? Those are works done without grace, works performed by yourself, of yourself, attempting to earn God’s favor. That is known as Pelagianism.

For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified (Romans 2:13 ESV)

When you perform a work of charity towards God or neighbor, through grace, you are a ‘doer of the law who will be justified’.

Saint James echoes this here:

Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar? You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works; and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”—and he was called a friend of God. You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone. (James 2:21-24 ESV)

The works that Saint James is referring to are not ‘works of the law’, viz. those works done of ourselves without God’s grace that Saint Paul condemns repeatedly. No, Saint James is referring to works done through sanctifying grace.
 
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