Clergy a superior vocation?

[distracted]

I am sorry but I have to take issue with the “superior-ness” of being a priest. It is a very noble vocation, indeed…if God has called you to it. Unfortunately, reading these posts gives me an underlying feeling that some views are misogynous–without those who voice them being aware of it. . I’m wondering if some of you just think that being a man is being superior?
Marriage is a sacrament…Holy Orders are one of the 7 sacraments.

to this! My thoughts exactly.

Just got the feeling that some folks think that God likes priests best (you know, the favorite child thing) and the rest of us are just chopped liver…

I truely believe that what the “superior” vocation is, is to do the Will of God as “ordained” for each one of us.

A big to this also. Its funny how i thought/felt the same way but hadn’t quite gotten it “articulated” or clarified in my mind… until i read your Post… :whacky:

I do feel there is a misogynistic spirit in Our Church… undoubtedly been there since the Church began. That is not The Church’s fault, per se, of course… just due to the fact that the Church is full of fallen human beings… and men have ruled the world since Day One…

I totally agree that the “superior vocation” is the one God wants for you. If God calls you to marriage and you remain in the seminary trying to be a priest (because you are afraid, say, of being hurt, emotionally, because you’ve been hurt before (?)… well, that’s understandable and all that, but objectively speaking, you are defying God.

Thanks.

 

[MarcoPolo]

The way I understood it from my Sacraments class at Franciscan U. is that it is not so much superior, but rather a “higher call.” In refraining from marriage, that person is more in imitation of a heavenly life, i.e. there is no marriage in heaven.

So that being said, if a person is called to marry, then he/she would be fulfilling God’s will to their best if they pursue that vocation!

We all do God’s will when we follow His call. Those who follow His call are all the superior ones.

 

[passioncrosslov]

:coffeeread: Hmmm… i even more rest my case…

…That goes for me too. Hey D, here’s a pillow… Catch!

 

[Acts29]

Hello, single, celibate . . .consecrated virgins . . .still not priests.

All priests are not celibate because eastern rites have married priests and even Latin rite has married priests in small numbers. Celibacy does not support finding the priesthood a “superior” vocation to single life. The married ones should be “chaste” according to their station in life, but celibate they are not.

Sorry. When I wrote that I meant any state of celibacy, whether it be priest, religious, or single consecrated virgins. Anyone who lives celibately for the kingdom is definitely living a higher calling. No offense to married people, because they show us a perfect example of the Trinity through their love and creation of new life.

 

[distracted]

. is that it is not so much superior, but rather a “higher call.” In refraining from marriage, that person is more in imitation of a heavenly life, i.e. there is no marriage in heaven.

I agree with this to a point… I believe, as stated elsewhere, that if a person is called to marriage, that is what God wants. Maybe it will be his/her biggest cross… but Jesus did not refuse the Cross… and neither should we…

We all do God’s will when we follow His call. Those who follow His call are all the superior ones.

Amen!

Another point is that we are all SUCH unique individuals… What seems to be right for one person may be all wrong for another…
I know this sounds like “the world’s argument” so to speak, but i don’t mean that in the “liberal sense” of everyone can believe what he or she wants… What i mean is that within the Christian “realm”… there is muhc individuality… and as that old hymn says… "Jesus walked this lonesome valley. He had to walk it by himself…[and] YOU have to walk this same lonesome valley, virtually by yourself… though with Jesus we are never alone…

 

[distracted]

…That goes for me too. Hey D, here’s a pillow… Catch!

Thanks. But i think i have enough “cushioning” as it is…
:D

 

[distracted]

All priests are not celibate because eastern rites have married priests and even Latin rite has married priests in small numbers.

Also, all priests are not celibate because, well, some of them live in America…

But then, why piick on America only - all countries these days are getting too “wild” morally…

 

[distracted]

The vocation to live a celibate life is, indeed, a higher vocation than the married life. .

But what if God wants a person to learn waht only marriage can teach?

I mean, some people are weak in one area, some in another… (and yet the ones called to marriage are also “strong” in some ways or God would NOT call them to marriage)…

Anyway… I still think the vocation that is best for a person is the one in which they are going to learn the things God wnats them to learn… We weak humans have to CHANGE (be transformed) in order to truly do what Jesus Christ requires of us - and to (in so doing) be able to enter Heaven.

I have been alone and “celibate” (not always perfectly “pure”… but always trying - i get an A for that …) for many, many years… I don’t mind being “alone” most of the time ('cause i talk to Jesus and am never alone ) but sometimes, i want someone to share Jesus with… and someone to love me at least a fraction as much as He does… I mean, after so many years… it would just be “nice”…
… just can’t seem to find Mr. Right… :doh2: :crying:
Or maybe i found him but he didn’t want to cooperate… or i didn’t or whatever…
…:hypno:

se la ve

 

[BarbaraTherese]

I was following you until you made this comment…

It seems you contradict what you say at first… I personally feel that the vocation God wants for you isthe superior one.

What can be superior to God’s Will? Nothing whatsoever - not the priesthood per se and not a religious vocation per se. God has a call and vocation for every person and we are called to follow and fulfill His Will “Thy Will be done on earth, as it is in Heaven”… it is He who supplies the gifts etc. necessary for that vocation in order to fulfill His Will. If I should become a nun and that was never God’s Will for me - what gain? Does God play some sort of favourites calling some to a higher others to a lower state in life. Not at all - not at all! In God’s Will all is holy even if I am simply taking out the garbage as part of the duties of my state in life, willed by God. At the same time Father is saying Mass as part of the duties of his state in life, willed by God. If I went to Mass and abandoned a duty of my state in life, I would be wrong since the duties of my state in life are Willed by God. “There is something greater than Moses here”…and where God’s Will is there is Christ. “23 And such as we think to be the less honourable members of the body, about these we put more abundant honour;” (Taken from quote from Corinthians below) - and worth thinking about. Nothing is greater than The Will of God however it may manifest itself. St. Paul put it very well. The Doctrine of The Mystical Body is a particularly beautiful doctrine…

St. Paul First Epistle to the Corinthians Chapter 12:

4 Now there are diversities of graces, but the same Spirit; 5 And there are diversities of ministries, but the same Lord;
6 And there are diversities of operations, but the same God, who worketh all in all. 7 And the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man unto profit. 8 To one indeed, by the Spirit, is given the word of wisdom: and to another, the word of knowledge, according to the same Spirit; 9 To another, faith in the same spirit; to another, the grace of healing in one Spirit; 10 To another, the working of miracles; to another, prophecy; to another, the discerning of spirits; to another, diverse kinds of tongues; to another, interpretation of speeches.
11 But all these things one and the same Spirit worketh, dividing to every one according as he will. 12 For as the body is one, and hath many members; and all the members of the body, whereas they are many, yet are one body, so also is Christ. 13 For in one Spirit were we all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Gentiles, whether bond or free; and in one Spirit we have all been made to drink. 14 For the body also is not one member, but many. 15 If the foot should say, because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
16 And if the ear should say, because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body? 17 If the whole body were the eye, where would be the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where would be the smelling? 18 But now God hath set the members every one of them in the body as it hath pleased him. 19 And if they all were one member, where would be the body? 20 But now there are many members indeed, yet one body.
21 And the eye cannot say to the hand: I need not thy help; nor again the head to the feet: I have no need of you. 22 Yea, much more those that seem to be the more feeble members of the body, are more necessary. 23 And such as we think to be the less honourable members of the body, about these we put more abundant honour; and those that are our uncomely parts, have more abundant comeliness. 24 But our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, giving to that which wanted the more abundant honour, 25 That there might be no schism in the body; but the members might be mutually careful one for another. 26 And if one member suffer any thing, all the members suffer with it; or if one member glory, all the members rejoice with it. 27 Now you are the body of Christ, and members of member. 28 And God indeed hath set some in the church; first apostles, secondly prophets, thirdly doctors; after that miracles; then the graces of healing, helps, governments, kinds of tongues, interpretations of speeches. 29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all doctors? 30 Are all workers of miracles? Have all the grace of healing? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret?

 

[Lepanto]

Yes, OBJECTIVELY speaking the vocation to the priesthood or religious life is more meritorious than the married state, which in turn is more meritorious than the single state. There is a hierarchy (which, I know, is a concept antithetical to the egalitarian modern mind).

This is not to say that many single people aren’t far holier than many priests! Many are! But what we are talking about are vocations and states in life, not the sanctity of any particular individuals, so no offense should be taken.

I write this as a man who is and who has been single all his life.

 

[BarbaraTherese]

I think that talk of higher and lower, more superior, more advanced etc. are all strictly human ways of measuring what in reality, in God, cannot be measured. If one takes two saints, one married and the other a priest - the married person is not regarded as in any way less or lower than the priest. In God’s Will all is holy. St Paul seems to speak of a classless society and equality of all persons - in fact it is antithetical to the Gospel to hold otherwise…Galatians 3
"28 There is neither Jew nor Greek: there is neither bond nor free: there is neither male nor female. For you are all one in Christ Jesus"…
Of course in The Church we do have a heirarchy, but called to be the servants of the servants. Hence the heirarchy in The Chuch ideally is contrary to worldly concepts of heirarchy and the trappings to identify rank and priviledge we put around it. We only have to look at Christ and how he came to dwell amongst us. He who is God and King of Kings - “My kingdom is not of this world”.

Blessings and God’s Peace…Barb
PS…No offence taken at any point. It is an interesting matter to debate.

 

[Lepanto]

I think that talk of higher and lower, more superior, more advanced etc. are all strictly human ways of measuring what in reality, in God, cannot be measured. If one takes two saints, one married and the other a priest - the married person is not regarded as in any way less or lower than the priest. In God’s Will all is holy. St Paul seems to speak of a classless society and equality of all persons - in fact it is antithetical to the Gospel to hold otherwise…Galatians 3
"28 There is neither Jew nor Greek: there is neither bond nor free: there is neither male nor female. For you are all one in Christ Jesus"…
Of course in The Church we do have a heirarchy, but called to be the servants of the servants. Hence the heirarchy in The Chuch ideally is contrary to worldly concepts of heirarchy and the trappings to identify rank and priviledge we put around it. We only have to look at Christ and how he came to dwell amongst us. He who is God and King of Kings - “My kingdom is not of this world”.

Blessings and God’s Peace…Barb

Please note that in this context, hierarchy does not mean privilege. It means service. That’s why one of the pope’s titles is “Servant of the Servants of God.” Any priest or religious who forgets that is abrogating his office.

Nevertheless, objectively speaking, the OFFICE of the priesthood or religious is more commendable than the married or single states.

 

[BarbaraTherese]

Please note that in this context, hierarchy does not mean privilege. It means service. That’s why one of the pope’s titles is “Servant of the Servants of God.” Any priest or religious who forgets that is abrogating his office.

Nevertheless, objectively speaking, the OFFICE of the priesthood or religious is more commendable than the married or single states.

Greetings Lepanto - if the priesthood or religious life is more commendable, then God needs disperse His Gifts on a commendable and less commendable level? One He Gifts/calls to be a priest…another to the married state and hence calling this person to the commendable and the other person to the less commendable? Hence His Will operates on a commendable and less comendable level? Apologies, I just can’t get my head around that thinking, Nothing can be more commendable than God’s Will no matter how it expresses itself. God’s Will is one with God as is His Love and Mercy…

Pax!..Blessings!..Barb
Incidentally, I am not married either - I am under private vows by choice and God’s Will and spiritual direction to a particular way of life. I am also a student on an adult campus.
I wonder where we would be if no one collect the garbage, delivered the mail etc. etc.…such ministries. On the other hand, where would we be without our priesthood and religious and indeed our heirarchy?

 

[contramundum7]

The vocation to live a celibate life is, indeed, a higher vocation than the married life. This is because the one who lives the celibate life is living “celibacy for the kingdom”. They are giving up a spousal type of relationship in order to more perfectly love God. In doing this, they are sharing with us a foretaste of Heaven because there is no marriage in Heaven.

There is no marriage in Heaven but there is Love… and marriage teaches people to love (or should…).

I believe if someone has a hard time really accepting others & that kind of thing, e tc… maybe God would calll that person to marriage… so he/she could learn… but i only say t his to those Catholic who accept marriage as a sacrament… Wordly people, generally, only love their spouses when its convenient to do so. I’ve heard stories about how someone will have a happy marriage, but then gets into a car wreck, has to be in a w heelchair, etc… and there g oes the marriage… A real Catholic will stay marired no mattered what…

 

[Joannm]

The Church has always taught that religious life is a superior vocation to single or married life. Numerous papal exhortations have stated that parents have the obligation to foster an interest in religious life and to help their children discern a vocation to it.

I think married life does present many challenges to faith and yes, it may be more difficult than the preisthood or religious life. I wonder if God grants parents more grace for having a more difficult time following God’s will. I know my faith has certainly been challenged, especilly when the kids were teenagers. I had often thought that nuns and priests have it easier.

 

[BarbaraTherese]

But none of them did. I think married life does present many challenges to faith and yes, it may be more difficult than the preisthood or religious life. I wonder if God grants parents more grace for having a more difficult time following God’s will. I know my faith has certainly been challenged, especilly when the kids were teenagers. I had often thought that nuns and priests have it easier.

Hi Joannm…God, who bestows the call or vocation, also supplies all Graces necessary to live that particular call and vocation. We can be very trusting and confident of that. God who commences His Works whatever they may be, completes them.
Marriage could be for one a very easy way of life, while for another entirely difficult - the same applies for the religious life and priesthood. All, no matter content, is within God’s Providence and His Grace…Grace is never lacking…
God’s Blessings and Peace…Barb

 

[BarbaraTherese]

I would be very interested indeed to read anything official (encyclical, letter etc.) that states the religious life and priesthood are superior vocations. I did do a search but could not come up with anything, only three links I think that were Catholic reputable sites but not official statements from Rome - and these three sites stated that there is no’superior’ vocation. I will post these links if anyone is interested.
But something from Rome would settle and decide the matter in my mind anyway.
Blessings and Peace - Barb

 

[Joannm]

I would be very interested indeed to read anything official (encyclical, letter etc.) that states the religious life and priesthood are superior vocations. I did do a search but could not come up with anything, only three links I think that were Catholic reputable sites but not official statements from Rome - and these three sites stated that there is no’superior’ vocation. I will post these links if anyone is interested.
But something from Rome would settle and decide the matter in my mind anyway.
Blessings and Peace - Barb

There is something in the Theology of the Body that may not state this exactly but basically says it. Probalby in the section on celibacy for the sake of the kingdom. I have my copy of the book at work. But it also extols the married state, which is the focus of the talks.

 

[BarbaraTherese]

There is something in the Theology of the Body that may not state this exactly but basically says it. Probalby in the section on celibacy for the sake of the kingdom. I have my copy of the book at work. But it also extols the married state, which is the focus of the talks.

Thank you Joannm…I am out today and may not get to this thread tonight even, but will do a search on the Theology of The Body as soon as I can and will post in this thread whatever I can find. I think Theology of The Body should be an online text? Do you happen to know?..or was it a book as you state above.

Thank you again for your help…Barb

 

[Joannm]

Thank you Joannm…I am out today and may not get to this thread tonight even, but will do a search on the Theology of The Body as soon as I can and will post in this thread whatever I can find. I think Theology of The Body should be an online text? Do you happen to know?..or was it a book as you state above.

Thank you again for your help…Barb

The Theology of the Body is not online. A new translation was just published but I have the old translation. I know I had this discussion with a priest friend of mine awhile ago and he told me to look in the Theology of the Body. I don’t know if I marked where it was but I will look as well.