Cleveland Diocese Announces 29 Churches to Close

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“The Cleveland Catholic Diocese this morning released the full listing of parishes to close or merge in a massive downsizing that will reshape the eight-county diocese. In all, 29 churches are to be closed and 41 are being directed to merge with one or more churches, creating 18 new parishes. The result will be 52 fewer parishes in 16 months. Most of the churches targeted for closing serve urban neighborhoods of Cleveland, Akron and Lorain, Bishop Richard Lennon acknowledged.

“The church will continue to be a vibrant presence in our cities,” he said at a Sunday morning press conference. “We will continue to run as many of our schools as possible.”

blog.cleveland.com/metro/2009/03/catholic_diocese_of_cleveland.html

I hope the schools are able to stay open.
 
I can only pray that this will result in stronger Catholic parishes that will thrive and grow.🙂
 
I hope the schools are able to stay open.
My son goes to one of the so-called “Catholic” schools in the Cleveland Diocese. His school is nothing but a pricey public school, for all intents and purposes. More non-Catholics, particularly those completely unchurched, go to the school than Catholics. That’s because of the government coupons (vouchers). The education has been dumbed down like the public schools…see “The Deliberate Dumbing Down of America” by Charlotte Iserbyt. If it weren’t for the coupons, 80% of the kids in his school would be in the public school.

My son’s second grade teacher, a habit-less nun, actively promoted Obama. The school hardly ever has the children go to Mass; instead, they opt for the “prayer service.” On Ash Wednesday, “Sister” gave the children ashes in Mr. So-and-So’s office.

If I didn’t supplement my son’s education at home, he would be so far behind. Why do I send him there and pay the tuition? I’m an idiot and both my wife and I work. After this school year, though, he is going to be homeschooled, no matter what sort of sacrifice it demands.
 
More school closings thanks to the failure of the liberal and progressivist Catholic clergy and the Vatican 2 after shock. Maybe the SSPX are right!.
 
More school closings thanks to the failure of the liberal and progressivist Catholic clergy and the Vatican 2 after shock. Maybe the SSPX are right!.
Actually, it is due to demographics. Most of the people in the neighborhoods where the churches and schools are closing are not Catholic. The Catholics moved to the suburbs years ago. The inner city residents for the most part are not Catholic. A few suburbanites still made the trek to the inner city on Sunday to go to Mass at these parishes, but not enough to keep them going financially.
 
While I am saddened to see my childhood parish (St. Philomena) close, I think it important to note that Cleveland, like many early immigrant settlement citiies in the North, built Roman Catholic Churches virtually next to each other to serve the variuous ethnic communities within walking distance. For instance, while I attended St. Philomea, my cousins attended Christ the King, less than 2 miles away.

I have been in the South in many different cities for many years now and have never been able to walk to my local Catholic Church. Typical of our situation is our current parish and the nearest sister parish. The distance between my parish, St. Catherine of Siena, and the next nearest Catholic Church (who originally sponsored us as a mission parish), St. Raphael the Archangel, is almost 14 miles. St. Catherine is now sponsoring a new mission parish, Our Lady of the Rosary, which is over 17 miles away.

Peace,
O’Malley
 
My son goes to one of the so-called “Catholic” schools in the Cleveland Diocese. His school is nothing but a pricey public school, for all intents and purposes. More non-Catholics, particularly those completely unchurched, go to the school than Catholics. That’s because of the government coupons (vouchers). The education has been dumbed down like the public schools…see “The Deliberate Dumbing Down of America” by Charlotte Iserbyt. If it weren’t for the coupons, 80% of the kids in his school would be in the public school.

My son’s second grade teacher, a habit-less nun, actively promoted Obama. The school hardly ever has the children go to Mass; instead, they opt for the “prayer service.” On Ash Wednesday, “Sister” gave the children ashes in Mr. So-and-So’s office.

If I didn’t supplement my son’s education at home, he would be so far behind. Why do I send him there and pay the tuition? I’m an idiot and both my wife and I work. After this school year, though, he is going to be homeschooled, no matter what sort of sacrifice it demands.
Magnum, what you’ve described is very common in the U.S. these days. Most of these “Catholic” schools are nothing more than pricey public schools for rich kids.

If you’re interested in how we got to this point, you might want to listen to a talk by Fr. Robert Altier on the School Crisis (Part 1 & 2), that you can download for free at the following link:

alabamacatholicresources.com/church_in_the_world.html

(Look just past the middle of the page. Right click on the two links and left click on Save Target As… and save it where you want. Then, go to that folder and double click on the file you to which you want to listen.)
 
Magnum, what you’ve described is very common in the U.S. these days. Most of these “Catholic” schools are nothing more than pricey public schools for rich kids.

If you’re interested in how we got to this point, you might want to listen to a talk by Fr. Robert Altier on the School Crisis (Part 1 & 2), that you can download for free at the following link:

alabamacatholicresources.com/church_in_the_world.html

(Look just past the middle of the page. Right click on the two links and left click on Save Target As… and save it where you want. Then, go to that folder and double click on the file you to which you want to listen.)
Thanks. I’m downloading them right now, and they’ll be on my mp3 player for tomorrow.

I ask my son almost everyday: “What did you learn in school today?” Actually, that’s not true. I no longer ask what he “learned” today; I already know he didn’t learn a thing. So for the last few months I substitute: “What did you do in school today?” He still can’t give me any answer, other than silent reading time and being read to…and recess, bathroom breaks and lunch.
 
Magnum, what you’ve described is very common in the U.S. these days. Most of these “Catholic” schools are nothing more than pricey public schools for rich kids.
The Catholic schools on the south side have become the ‘private schools’ of the poor and lower middle-income. I’m glad the Church retains its education ministry.

So I, without any grade school kids, support the public schools with my taxes and my parish grammar school with my donations.
 
The Catholic schools on the south side have become the ‘private schools’ of the poor and lower middle-income. I’m glad the Church retains its education ministry.

So I, without any grade school kids, support the public schools with my taxes and my parish grammar school with my donations.
Not to argue with you, because I also agree that maintaining a Catholic presence in a poorer neighborhood is absolutely essential. The difference lies in what that “Catholic” presence embodies and sends forth. The Catholic Church has the duty to provide solid Catholic education in her schools. Anything less is not only non-beneficial, it can actually be destructive. BTW, real Catholic education goes beyond just religion class.

Speaking only for the situation here in Cleveland, the Catholic schools have been dumbed down right along with the public schools. No longer are the three R’s the standard for grammar school. Its all about social doctrine (indoctrination) and the feel good curriculum. Sadly, I do believe, albeit without personally witnessing it, that this is more the norm around the entire country than the exception. I pray that I’m wrong.
 
More school closings thanks to the failure of the liberal and progressivist Catholic clergy and the Vatican 2 after shock. Maybe the SSPX are right!.
It’s economics; not theology!

My sister, daughter and several nieces used to teach in Catholic parochial schools. They did not lose their zeal for educating children in Catholicism; they simply could not continue to run their households on subsistence wages.

Vatican II helped by restating in its option for the poor that workers have a right to decent and fair wages – including Catholic teachers. However, dioceses are still constrained by the ability of parents’ to pay tuitions and parishoners willingness to give of their treasure.

So, if you want better Catholic schools, ante up when the basket reaches your pew.

Peace,
O’Malley
 
It’s economics; not theology!

My sister, daughter and several nieces used to teach in Catholic parochial schools. They did not lose their zeal for educating children in Catholicism; they simply could not continue to run their households on subsistence wages.

Vatican II helped by restating in its option for the poor that workers have a right to decent and fair wages – including Catholic teachers. However, dioceses are still constrained by the ability of parents’ to pay tuitions and parishoners willingness to give of their treasure.

So, if you want better Catholic schools, ante up when the basket reaches your pew.

Peace,
O’Malley
Sorry but along with “fair” wages those of us that felt we had a “vocation” to the schools were told we could no longer just volunteer. We were told that we could not “work” for expenses (some of us were happy to do so as it helped keep the costs down for others). And yes we have degrees and years of experience. Most of us now educate at home so only our own children are allowed to benefit from our experience and dedication. Our dedication and skills were no longer considered good enough. My Masters if I wanted to volunteer is now only good enough for kitchen duty.🤷 The only thing I can do for the Catholic Church now is babysit for the music ministry on rehearsal night.

In our parish the “ante up when the basket reaches your pew” did no good as those of us that did so were not given any kind of a break for our own parish school. As I said it is now closed.

Our school could no longer afford to stay open with the “fair wage” forced upon those of us that had been volunteers. Not all of our staff was volunteer and strangely enough the two highest are still employed at our parish even though the school is no longer open. Tuition for the average child went up from $1200 to almost $4000 per child no matter where they went to church or even if they went to church. An out of state non-catholic firm calculates if anyone is eligible for a tuition break and religion is not part of the calculation. Our convent is now empty and the vast majority of our kids go to public schools. Some of us educate at home and would be willing to school a couple of other kids also. The LAW will not allow this.

The added income placed some of us in higher tax ratios and our husbands health insurance would no longer cover us as we were now working. So we could not afford to work for the “fair wage” we were able to afford to work for expences as volunteers.
 
Sorry but along with “fair” wages those of us that felt we had a “vocation” to the schools were told we could no longer just volunteer. We were told that we could not “work” for expenses (some of us were happy to do so as it helped keep the costs down for others). And yes we have degrees and years of experience…
Do you not have an undergraduate degree in Education? Perhaps your state, like many other states, requires the degree (thank the Teachers’ Union; don’t blame the Church). My daughter did not have the “right” degree but took courses on line to obtain the additonal degree. She was a single Mom who wanted to be with her children in their formative years. God bless her.
Most of us now educate at home so only our own children are allowed to benefit from our experience and dedication. Our dedication and skills were no longer considered good enough. My Masters if I wanted to volunteer is now only good enough for kitchen duty.🤷 The only thing I can do for the Catholic Church now is babysit for the music ministry on rehearsal night.

In our parish the “ante up when the basket reaches your pew” did no good as those of us that did so were not given any kind of a break for our own parish school. As I said it is now closed.

Our school could no longer afford to stay open with the “fair wage” forced upon those of us that had been volunteers…
I’m confused. Were you disqualifed as a volunteer because you lacked the required credentials or because, on principle, you would not take the wage? If the case is the former, then the “fair wage” wasn’t forced upon you. Again, blame the Teachers’ Union.
Not all of our staff was volunteer and strangely enough the two highest are still employed at our parish even though the school is no longer open. Tuition for the average child went up from $1200 to almost $4000 per child no matter where they went to church or even if they went to church. An out of state non-catholic firm calculates if anyone is eligible for a tuition break and religion is not part of the calculation. Our convent is now empty and the vast majority of our kids go to public schools. Some of us educate at home and would be willing to school a couple of other kids also. The LAW will not allow this.

The added income placed some of us in higher tax ratios and our husbands health insurance would no longer cover us as we were now working. So we could not afford to work for the “fair wage” we were able to afford to work for expences as volunteers.
I sympathize with your particular situation. May I assume that as a volunteer you had the means for sustaining yourself and your dependents apart from the teacher’s salary? If so, I would suggest that those teachers who were not independently sustained deserved and needed the increase. I would also like to think that if you had the B.E. degree, you could have kept your job and put your entire salary back in the basket offsetting your entire income as a charitble contribution. In the absence of your husband’s health benefits, would not the dicocesan health benefits program cover you?

Time for concerned Catholics to work the system or change the laws; our kids are too important not to.

Peace,
O’Malley
 
Do you not have an undergraduate degree in Education? Yes and a Masters in Educational Psy.Perhaps your state, like many other states, requires the degree (thank the Teachers’ Union; don’t blame the Church). My daughter did not have the “right” degree but took courses on line to obtain the additonal degree. I am glad that your daughter had this option. I wonder how many mothers have had to go out into the working world to pay for the teachers, or remover their children from their schools, that replaced those of us that were qualified and serving where we thought God had called us? She was a single Mom who wanted to be with her children in their formative years. My mother was a single mother and had it not been for the no cost/low cost Catholic School my brothers attended she would have had to remove my brothers from a Catholic School. God bless her.

As we did also with out having to go to WORK to pay for a Catholic Education.

I’m confused. No quite qualified. Infact I tutored edication majors so they could receive their teaching certificates (also unpaid) Were you disqualifed as a volunteer because you lacked the required credentials or because, on principle, you would not take the wage? Because we wanted to continue as voluntary not paid staff. If the case is the former, then the “fair wage” wasn’t forced upon you. Again, blame the Teachers’ Union. No teachers union in our schools at the time or now. Just a parity rule.

I sympathize with your particular situation. May I assume that as a volunteer you had the means for sustaining yourself and your dependents apart from the teacher’s salary? If so, I would suggest that those teachers who were not independently sustained deserved and needed the increase. That would have been a good option. IT was not offered. There was no choice for those of us that did not want the money. What we were told was we could donate the money back to the church if we wanted to do so. But then not to expect a break on the tuition if we did this.🤷 I would also like to think that if you had the B.E. degree, you could have kept your job and put your entire salary back in the basket offsetting your entire income as a charitble contribution. Well the IRS has rules against this, we checked. There are limits on the amount you can deduct. We would have had to pay state, local taxes even on the donated amounts. In the absence of your husband’s health benefits, would not the dicocesan health benefits program cover you? Yes at a further cost to the diocesan coffers. Also my husbands insurance was the better of the two so we would have been forced into two insurance companies one great and the other minimal. Thus our out of pocket costs would go up. Thus adding to the overall cost to each and every child being educated.

Time for concerned Catholics to work the system or change the laws; our kids are too important not to.

Peace,
O’Malley
Yes our kids are and that is why you are seeing many of us now education at home. Our children and grandchildren are being educated in the Catholic tradition that many of us were educated in. But then this is not fashionable in society today. Better a watered down private “catholic” system then a low cost to Catholic families system.🤷
 
My mother was a single mother and had it not been for the no cost/low cost Catholic School my brothers attended she would have had to remove my brothers from a Catholic School.:
With all respect, there never was nor is there now a “no cost/low cost Catholic School.” Somebody always pays in time, talent or treasure. Maybe its my turn to ante up!

Peace,
O’Malley
 
So, if you want better Catholic schools, ante up when the basket reaches your pew.

Peace,
O’Malley
That’s fine advice if your own parish has a school. Mine doesn’t. My kids attend a Catholic school attached to another parish. The school receives nothing from the diocese in terms of monetary support. So we “ante up” with tuition and direct donations.
 
With all respect, there never was nor is there now a “no cost/low cost Catholic School.” Somebody always pays in time, talent or treasure. Maybe its my turn to ante up!

Peace,
O’Malley
I beg to differ. My mother gave what she could to the Church on Sundays in the envelope we were given. She was not expected to give more for the elementary school education of my brothers. I was in Sr High at the time and was the one that took the boys to and from school. I also knew what we had and paid out. So yes it was a fully supported school and those that were members did not pay an added expense for their childs education. Of course this was prior to the BIG changes that came in the 1970’s.
 
I beg to differ. My mother gave what she could to the Church on Sundays in the envelope we were given. She was not expected to give more for the elementary school education of my brothers. I was in Sr High at the time and was the one that took the boys to and from school. I also knew what we had and paid out. So yes it was a fully supported school and those that were members did not pay an added expense for their childs education. Of course this was prior to the BIG changes that came in the 1970’s.
My point is that all schools are always “fully supported” but not necessarily by those that are the immediate beneficiaries. If a school does not cover its costs in full, it closes. The school may charge, beg and borrow to do so but, like a household, it must balance its books – pardon the pun.:o
 
Wow. That’s horrible. I hope that the people who lose their parish will be able to afford the gas to drive to the next closest parish. I wish there was something we could do to help the diocese out so they didn’t have to close these parishes.
 
My point is that all schools are always “fully supported” but not necessarily by those that are the immediate beneficiaries. If a school does not cover its costs in full, it closes. The school may charge, beg and borrow to do so but, like a household, it must balance its books – pardon the pun.:o
The sad fact is that the instructional staff at Catholic schools get a much higher salary than they did in the fifties and sixties! So things were certain to change.
 
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