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Ender
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How does one count something as a success if it can sustain itself solely “thanks to a program of government financial incentives”? If a program is sustained only because the government funds it how can it fail?
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LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
If you define success as reducing the reliance on fossil fueled vehicles, then it is a success. If you define success as creating an electric vehicle economy that is profitable without any subsidies, then it is not. It all depends on what your goal is.Theo520:
How does one count something as a success if it can sustain itself solely “thanks to a program of government financial incentives”? If a program is sustained only because the government funds it how can it fail?
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Ender
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I understand: it is a success by definition.
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Theo520
Guest
They arrested 70 people protesting NYT coverage of climate change
Not alarmist enough I gather.
www.theguardian.com
Not alarmist enough I gather.
Arrests at protest over New York Times' 'unacceptable' climate coverage
Protesters calling for better coverage of the climate crisis block avenue between Port Authority and Times building in Manhattan
www.theguardian.com
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HarryStotle
Guest
I suppose that also means the coral – if the islands live up to their nomenclature – isn’t affected by the supposed acidification of the oceans?Theo520:
Yes, it appears that coral islands respond to rising sea levels by…growing, not disappearing.
…a new paper in Nature Scientific Reports … surveyed sandy beaches around the world using current and historic satellite photographs – the same approach used by Kench – and have found that, in contrast to what a simple ‘global warming equals sea level rise’ approach might predict, more are getting larger rather are shrinking.
It appears that a great deal of the climate change narrative is based upon dubious premises and invented science.
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Ender
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It appears that coral reefs are not as sensitive as predicted, and recover naturally. What a surprise.
Researchers have been reporting similar recovery in reefs that were mistakenly thought to be dead or dying. At Northwest Australia’s Scott Reef, the upper 3 meters had lost 80 to 90% of its living coral and the disappearance of half of the coral genera. Yet researchers observed, “within 12 years coral cover, recruitment, generic diversity, and community structure were again similar to the pre-bleaching years.”
Yeah, ya think?
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HarryStotle
Guest
That would be a rather arbitrary notion of success.
Why would reducing the reliance on fossil fueled vehicles be a goal or desired outcome if it puts into jeopardy the well-being of millions or billions of humans on the planet?
You can’t just pick outcomes out of the blue and consider yourself successful for achieving them, absent from the real world.
An argument has been made that giving up fossil fuels would result in the massive deforestation of large areas of the globe because human beings would default to cutting down trees to stay warm or fuel their energy needs. You might call a complete decoupling from the use of fossil fuels a grand ‘success’ according to “It all depends on what your goal is…” but it could also be a grand catastrophe.
Sounds like AOC’s critique that “People focus on being factually right instead of morally right.” As if morality is something that can be determined completely independent of the facts.
The actual facts about fossil fuels ought to be the grounds upon which goals or success in achieving those goals should be based.
What is “morally right” can only be determined with reference to the facts. We live in the real world, not a fantasy world.
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HarryStotle
Guest
Here is an example of what the city of Boulder Colorado would consider success in reducing fossil fuels.
The question is whether there is any way to call that fiasco a success, objectively speaking.
The question is whether there is any way to call that fiasco a success, objectively speaking.
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Theo520
Guest
This 2017 MIT analysis shows that pairing nuclear with renewables would be the cheapest way to electrify a clean energy future.
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Theo520
Guest
News Flash
Climate gate was a Russian operation
Exclusive: “Climategate” Email Hacking was Carried out from Russia, in Effort to Undermine Action…
In 2009, the publication of emails stolen from the UK’s University of East Anglia made headlines across the world. It sparked a scandal…
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
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Ender
Guest
Regarding the unending claims that extreme weather events (fires, floods, frogs, etc) are increasing because of global warming, here are some statements from Judith Curry’s recent testimony before Congress:
Recent international and national assessment reports acknowledge that there is not yet evidence of changes in the frequency or intensity of hurricanes, droughts, floods or wildfires that can be attributed to manmade global warming.
Out to at least 2050, natural climate variability is expected to dominate future hurricane variations, rather than any warming trend. The most important looming factor is an anticipated future shift to the cold phase of the Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation. This shift is expected to overall reduce hurricane and wildfire risk for a period of several decades.
Oops.
Recent international and national assessment reports acknowledge that there is not yet evidence of changes in the frequency or intensity of hurricanes, droughts, floods or wildfires that can be attributed to manmade global warming.
Out to at least 2050, natural climate variability is expected to dominate future hurricane variations, rather than any warming trend. The most important looming factor is an anticipated future shift to the cold phase of the Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation. This shift is expected to overall reduce hurricane and wildfire risk for a period of several decades.
Oops.
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Ender
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Or temperature, apparently…more (contrary) information on coral reefs.
Understanding the response of coral reef growth to past warm periods allows better predictions of the response of coral reefs to future climate change and evaluations of the potential for the locality to act as climate change refugia for coral reefs in the 21st century. We identify abrupt coral reef recovery in the northern South China Sea (SCS) since the last century (especially post‐1960 CE), indicating that the Current Warm Period is an optimal episode for reef growth in the northern SCS. As our results suggest that expansive coral growth occurred in the mid‐Holocene when sea surface temperatures were up to 2 °C higher than present, the northern SCS may represent critical refugia for future reefs in the 21st century.
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Ender
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For those touting wind energy…more news from the “Be careful what you wish for” front.
The Reinhardswald forest in northern Hesse is something very special, and not only because it’s the largest in the state. One of its characteristics is that it belongs to the general public. But that could be its downfall, because the coalition state government (consisting of the Christian Democrats (CDU) and the Green Party) is planning to build industrial areas right in the middle of it.
The reason is the government’s ambitious goal of reserving 2% of the state’s land area for wind energy. But in Hesse, there’s only enough wind — when there’s any wind at all — at high altitudes. And since most of the high lands are wooded, almost all new wind turbines are built in forests.
Apparently the “greens” in Germany are of a different shade than one would expect.
The Reinhardswald forest in northern Hesse is something very special, and not only because it’s the largest in the state. One of its characteristics is that it belongs to the general public. But that could be its downfall, because the coalition state government (consisting of the Christian Democrats (CDU) and the Green Party) is planning to build industrial areas right in the middle of it.
The reason is the government’s ambitious goal of reserving 2% of the state’s land area for wind energy. But in Hesse, there’s only enough wind — when there’s any wind at all — at high altitudes. And since most of the high lands are wooded, almost all new wind turbines are built in forests.
Apparently the “greens” in Germany are of a different shade than one would expect.
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DENNYINMI
Guest
Earthquakes. You cannot plunder the earth with fracking and expect no retaliation, you cannot pollute the water and expect that people won’t die, you cannot pollute the air with toxins and expect to not follow in the footsteps of China with the necessary use of gas masks, How much longer will men such as the Holy Father the head of the Catholic Church, the seat of Peter, call out that we must be good stewards, and encourage change before we are in history books as the generation that “wouldn’t listen”………….Because we now believe that truth can be “alternative”.
Global warming with the subsequent climate change…we’re in it.
Global warming with the subsequent climate change…we’re in it.
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Theo520
Guest
Wow that is an emotional rant, and not super reality connected.
Fracking doesn’t cause major earth quakes, that’s from tectonic plates
Pollution is obviously a real thing, something we’ve been battling since the 70’s. We’ve made significant progress in improving the quality of our air and water in the USA. China is following in our footsteps. Once they decide it’s important, they will clean it up.
The US is a good steward of our land.
Fracking doesn’t cause major earth quakes, that’s from tectonic plates
Pollution is obviously a real thing, something we’ve been battling since the 70’s. We’ve made significant progress in improving the quality of our air and water in the USA. China is following in our footsteps. Once they decide it’s important, they will clean it up.
The US is a good steward of our land.
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DENNYINMI
Guest
No we are not. Nor have we been a good steward of others.
We’ve raped and pillaged smaller less fortunate countries for their natural resources and think nothing of the contributions of rain forests (know nothing either, with the unwillingness to learn) and the results to the environment of deforestation.
We think nothing of species that are facing extermination which are being eliminated at a faster rate than extinction.
In our quest for consumerism and greed, we’ve disregarded regulations that were put in place to protect rivers and streams, and call it “good”.
You may call me emotional, but anyone unwilling to recognize that our ways have severe consequences is naïve, and anyone unwilling to decrease our collective carbon footprint has been bought and sold a bill of goods on deregulation and is a cheerleader for Big Corp.
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DENNYINMI
Guest
Your rebuttal does not state the science that is supported that yes Theo, it contributes to it indeed.
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Ender
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HarryStotle
Guest
With all due respect, being in the “seat of Peter” does not make Pope Francis an expert climatologist nor does it make him immune to the politicization of the issue.
Very recent scientific studies from Finland and corroborated by scientists in Japan demonstrate anthropogenic climate change is “practically nonexistent."
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019...man-made-climate-change-doesnt-exist-practice
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DENNYINMI
Guest
Have you read the Encyclical Letter Laudato si’ written by the Holy Father in 2015?
He wrote it as the Head of the Church, which whomever holds the seat of Peter whether you like him or not, remains Holy…Every Catholic should read it, it’s beautiful. However, this encyclical is not written from the Throne of a man who considers himself a know it all on every topic known to man because he has a big brain or knows many many words. Pope Francis is much too humble for that.
It is based on solid scientific knowledge that has called for a warning that is unfolding before our very eyes…7 dead whales in Alaska reported today. Scientists are saying these mammals are dying because like us, they carry beneficial host bacteria that are being affected by the increase in temperature. Alaska. Are you getting the picture?
Perhaps the bell will go off (no pun, the bell, haha) for most people when the stock market once again takes a nose dive because the housing markets are intricately connected. Homes right now are being lost due to cities covered in water. Saints be Praised living here in the Great Lake state I no longer live in my hometown which is see it…I never remember it like this looking at the photos of people fishing off of top of the bench in the little city’s park.
Our Father sounded the bell. It’s which one you want to listen to…the dumb bell, the bell on wall street, or the Church Bell.
Choose wisely, we’ve got to hand this over to our grandchildren.
He wrote it as the Head of the Church, which whomever holds the seat of Peter whether you like him or not, remains Holy…Every Catholic should read it, it’s beautiful. However, this encyclical is not written from the Throne of a man who considers himself a know it all on every topic known to man because he has a big brain or knows many many words. Pope Francis is much too humble for that.
It is based on solid scientific knowledge that has called for a warning that is unfolding before our very eyes…7 dead whales in Alaska reported today. Scientists are saying these mammals are dying because like us, they carry beneficial host bacteria that are being affected by the increase in temperature. Alaska. Are you getting the picture?
Perhaps the bell will go off (no pun, the bell, haha) for most people when the stock market once again takes a nose dive because the housing markets are intricately connected. Homes right now are being lost due to cities covered in water. Saints be Praised living here in the Great Lake state I no longer live in my hometown which is see it…I never remember it like this looking at the photos of people fishing off of top of the bench in the little city’s park.
Our Father sounded the bell. It’s which one you want to listen to…the dumb bell, the bell on wall street, or the Church Bell.
Choose wisely, we’ve got to hand this over to our grandchildren.
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