Clinton: Hillary Would Be Better Prez Than Me

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koda:
Well, IMO (and this is just my opinion so don’t get all defensive on me) there is more to being pro-life than being anti-abortion.
No one has said anything to the contrary. But, whatever “pro-life” means, it must mean at least being opposed to abortion. Senator Clinton’s actions, as well as the policies of the Democratic Party, are not opposed to abortion, but instead are committed to making access to abortion more widespread.

– Mark L. Chance.
 
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MikeWM:
That sounds fair enough, that was the point of resolution 1441. Unfortunately Saddam did mostly comply, didn’t have weapons, and we just invaded anyway. Not as a last resort.

Mike
Could you give a reference verifying that Saddam did not have WMDs? A lot you governments and people were as certain that he did as Pres. Bush. Could it not be that he transferred them elsewhere?
 
mary bobo:
Could you give a reference verifying that Saddam did not have WMDs?
Mr Blair and Mr Bush put their necks on the line saying that Saddam had WMDs and have received a justifiably massive amount of criticism since. You can bet your life that if there was credible evidence of WMDs found in Iraq that we would have heard such from Mr Blair and Mr Bush.
A lot you governments and people were as certain that he did as Pres. Bush. Could it not be that he transferred them elsewhere?
While I personally think that unlikely, if it did happen, it makes a mockery of our reason to invade Iraq, which was ostensibly for the WMDs.[1] If they existed and are now moved somewhere else, they are even less under control now than they were.

Mike

[1] The UK at least, before people rush in excitement to post the Congressional Resolution for the thousandth time.
 
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koda:
Well, IMO (and this is just my opinion so don’t get all defensive on me) there is more to being pro-life than being anti-abortion. Unborn babies are not the only form of life on the planet. Pro-life means ALL life, everyone God created, no matter how you feel about them - and especially your enemies. Though, I’ll admit that loving your enemies it a tough one - can’t do it without prayer and grace.
You’re entitled to your opinion, and most of us would agree that there is more to being pro-life than anti-abortion–however, abortion is such a problem that pro-life is associated largely with it.

For the most part, I agree that pro life means everyone God created. Loving your enemies is a tough one. IMO, there are levels of this. When Jacques Chirac, Paul Martin, or Hillary Clinton is your enemy, prayer and grace are good responses. They can also be dealt with by voting and debate. However, when a Islamic terrorist or Nazi is the enemy, one of the most anti-life things that can be done is to not fight them.

This kind of got off topic, as most threads about the Clintons or the Bushes do.

As far as pro-life and Hillary making a good president, she may be for social programs, but she’s also contribute to abortion. Not to be argumentative, but IMO I think it is a very weak argument to say that its okay to support a pro-abortion candidate over a anti-abortion candidate because they are more pro-life due to social programs–it is debatable whether or not some social programs help or harm, but it is not debatable that abortion harms. What good are the social programs if the children are dead and never live to see them?
 
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MommaKat:
That is only sex and is okay if he’s a good prez. in your opinion. Then he could be sleeping with all the women in Washington.
Yes.
This is respectable? Using women and not marrying them. Sex outside of marriage is respectable? I don’t think so. This is moral relativism. I am okay you are okay and there is no TRUTH.
What does respectability have to do with a man’s ability to govern? I must disagree with you. My criteria for electing an official to office and wanting to socialize with him are not one and the same.
 
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shannin:
I would love to see Condi Rice run against Hillary 👍
An interesting match-up, but some social conservatives wouldn’t vote for Rice because she’s pro-choice. Still, it would give America an opportunity to have a woman as President and would be worthwhile for that reason alone.
 
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koda:
I understand what you’re saying but it doesn’t equal her not respeting ANY life. As for birth control, she’s not Catholic, nor are millions of Americans, and I’m not one for pushing my faith on others. As for abortion, I had one, so consider my opinion. I felt I had no options - had their been social programs that would have helped me when the dad told me to stuff it, then I might not have been so desperate (we were married, btw, and getting pregnant was his idea and this was 20+ years ago). I’m against abortion but I realize that even if it made illegal, deserate women will resort to desperate measures. We’ve got to offer them some hope, something that continues even after the child is born. Personally, I find it impossible to think of Bush as pro-life because he seems to have a problem with a lot of the social programs the poor depend on. Yet if I said he had no respect for life, I would immediately be called for it, and rightly, because it is an incrediably broad generalization in the same vein and a shock headline. As people have reminded me, I don’t know what is in Bush’s heart so I’d better refrain from judging him. Please give Hillary (and every one else you disagree with) the same courtesy.
I suggest that you get some post-abortive stress help. There are program for that. You don’t have to suffer any more with the guilt that you feel. There is Rachael’s vineyard and Priest for Life who can tell you more about these programs. I recongnize your anger because that was me. I am also post-abortive but have dealt with my guilt. We have to stop rationalizing away our guilt. Some of the most radically pro-abortion people are those who don’t want it to be made illegal because it would increase their own guilt. I know before my counciling that was me. Since then I will do what ever it takes to make it less accepted. It is so bad for women. It increase the risk of breast cancer and uterine cancer and premature births and other complication in pregnancy.
My daughter was a premie and I nearly died from my pregnancy. My sister who had no abortion had normal pregnancies.
I will pray for you so that you will have the strength and courage to face what you must face. May the Blessed Mother wrap you in her loving arms.
 
Arba Sicula:
What does respectability have to do with a man’s ability to govern? I must disagree with you. My criteria for electing an official to office and wanting to socialize with him are not one and the same.
Everything I suggest that you read some about Saint Thomas More who lost his head for his respectability. If you don’t have a good name you have nothing. If a man doesn’t respect his wife and the vows he made in marriage he will not respect any other vow he makes.
 
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thestickman:
It was not an uncharitable statement. If Senator Clinton had any respect for life she would not be pro-abortion–which, IMO proves also the Clintons are not for decent healthcare when it comes to unborn babies.
Correct. The life expectancy in the US of all conceived humans is 17 years of age. Now if the good Senator would like to increase that then she cannot be pro-death.
 
mary bobo:
Could you give a reference verifying that Saddam did not have WMDs? A lot you governments and people were as certain that he did as Pres. Bush. Could it not be that he transferred them elsewhere?
A few days before the war we have satellite photos showing convoys of trucks going into Syria. The US considered chasing them under the “hot pursuit clause” but decided not too. The Duelfer report references these convoys, but because satellites can not see inside the truck they could not conclude definitively that they contained WMD. Considering the fact that Saddam flew his military jets into Syria for safekeeping, what do you think was in those trucks?
 
Arba Sicula:
I can’t agree about Gore. He did win the popular vote, and should have won the election.

But, I agree with you about Kerry. As a Dem, I voted for him, but saw that he was running a terrible election campaign. Bush out-campaigned him and so, won. I don’t deny him that coup.
Oddly enough, there’s vastly more evidence of voter fraud in the 2004 election than in 2000. (Whether that voter fraud determined the final result of the election or not is another question, of course. There’s very strong evidence that there was voter fraud in JFK’s favor, but he’d have still won without it, for instance.)

But regardless of the outcome of either election, it’s hard to argue that both Gore and Kerry didn’t wage ineffective and at times hilariously inept election campaigns.
 
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buffalo:
Correct. The life expectancy in the US of all conceived humans is 17 years of age.
That is a pretty meaningless statistic, given it includes all the conceived zygotes that naturally fail to implant.

Mike
 
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MikeWM:
That is a pretty meaningless statistic, given it includes all the conceived zygotes that naturally fail to implant.

Mike
Uh No! And just how would one find that info out?
 
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buffalo:
Uh No! And just how would one find that info out?
Well, it must do. There aren’t anywhere near that many abortions that go on to bring the figure down anywhere near as low as 17 if we are talking about viable, implanted zygotes. The abortion rate would have to be about 80%, and, thank God, it isn’t.

Mike
 
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MikeWM:
Well, it must do. There aren’t anywhere near that many abortions that go on to bring the figure down anywhere near as low as 17 if we are talking about viable, implanted zygotes. The abortion rate would have to be about 80%, and, thank God, it isn’t.

Mike
Pro Life Expectancy - a look at the actual actuarials
by Dr. Robert Bennett

The Crusher - Silent Chemical Abortions
Chemical contraception by pill, injection or implant is thought by the general public to be independent of the pro-life vs. pro-abort debate. The pill is assumed to prevent conception by completely blocking ovulation, and the popular media does not discourage that assumption. But medical proof of a horrific link between contraception and abortion has been slowly escaping the culture of death filter since 1989 and is now well-documented in the press and on-line. Convincing research now addresses the truth concerning the reality of a chemical contraceptive abortion. The technical medical details documented in these articles go beyond the scope of this life-expectancy survey; they are summarized in the following.
 
buffalo said:
Pro Life Expectancy - a look at the actual actuarials
by Dr. Robert Bennett

The Crusher - Silent Chemical Abortions

That article is full of hand-waving and estimates about the actual figures. It also appears to make the error of assuming that for those women on the pill, all zygotes would implant except for their taking the pill, which is incorrect - although it is written vaguely and confusingly enough that it is difficult to specifically criticise.

It also starts out by stating that the 900-year-lifetimes set out in Genesis are literal fact, which also seems quite a silly scientific point of view.

Mike
 
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MikeWM:
That article is full of hand-waving and estimates about the actual figures. It also appears to make the error of assuming that for those women on the pill, all zygotes would implant except for their taking the pill, which is incorrect - although it is written vaguely and confusingly enough that it is difficult to specifically criticise.

It also starts out by stating that the 900-year-lifetimes set out in Genesis are literal fact, which also seems quite a silly scientific point of view.

Mike
:hmmm:
 
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MommaKat:
I suggest that you get some post-abortive stress help. There are program for that. You don’t have to suffer any more with the guilt that you feel. There is Rachael’s vineyard and Priest for Life who can tell you more about these programs. I recongnize your anger because that was me. I am also post-abortive but have dealt with my guilt. We have to stop rationalizing away our guilt. Some of the most radically pro-abortion people are those who don’t want it to be made illegal because it would increase their own guilt. I know before my counciling that was me. Since then I will do what ever it takes to make it less accepted. It is so bad for women. It increase the risk of breast cancer and uterine cancer and premature births and other complication in pregnancy.
My daughter was a premie and I nearly died from my pregnancy. My sister who had no abortion had normal pregnancies.
I will pray for you so that you will have the strength and courage to face what you must face. May the Blessed Mother wrap you in her loving arms.
I will pray for you too koda, it is obvious that MommaKat is repentant, that is why she is doing all she can to stop it and to inform other’s. Most especially I agree and will pray the prayer above in blue for you along with MommaKat. This is the reason I would never vote for someone who believed it and showed by their actions and record that abortion is acceptable, obviously they aren’t caring about pre-born babies, and I believe if they don’t care about the least of our brethren (babies who can’t even speak up for themselves), that they sure aren’t going to care about the rest of us, no matter what they say. The babies have no voice, that is why we must give them one. Like another poster said above, they don’t care who someone is sleeping with and they would vote for them anyway, well, I woulnd’t, if they can’t even respect themselves and other’s they sure aren’t going to respect any of the rest of us and who wants someone like that in charge over us?
Not I, that’s for sure.
 
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MommaKat:
Everything I suggest that you read some about Saint Thomas More who lost his head for his respectability.
More didn’t lose his life for the cause of being respectable. I think that it would behoove you to read why he was willing to go to his death, and it had nothing to do with wanting to look respectable.
If you don’t have a good name you have nothing.
Fine as your opinion.
If a man doesn’t respect his wife and the vows he made in marriage he will not respect any other vow he makes.
That’s not correct. Period. Pres. Roosevelt committed adultery, as one example, and he is one of our greatest presidents, true to his promises and commitments to our nation.
 
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