Cloning from the Shroud of Turin?

[jdnation]

There is an interesting article here, concerning supposed plans by scientists that after they perfect the cloning technique and are allowed to clone a human, the first choice may perhaps be using the DNA found from the Shroud of Turin.

That aside, the main reason I’m posting it in this section is that the article also contains good information supporting the authenticity of the Shroud of Turin.

Humans to decipher the DNA of God and clone another Christ
raidersnewsupdate.com/lead-story327.htm

 

[Aaron_I]

Identical twins have the same DNA without being the same person, so it wouldn’t necessarily bring a second coming of Christ.

I’d already heard all the arguments for the validity of the shroud, but it’s nice to have something to cite for it now. The one thing I found interesting was that the shroud has the wounds on the palm. I’d always wondered why stigmatas have the wounds on the palm whereas Christ was supposedly nailed at the wrists. Now we know that the palm is in fact the proper place.

There was one line in the article I found to be particularly delightful: “Not so long ago, the Pope who is known for his absolute honesty also answered ‘Yes’ to the question if the shroud was genuine or not.” C’mon, who can argue with that?

 

[Rebecca_New]

I listened to a play about this same topic on our local university station. The woman miscarried but not before she distroyed all the DNA. She became very morally correct while carrying the clone.

 

[Al_Masetti]

I enjoyed the article; good summary of the research and study to date. Omits the weave of the cloth and the pollen grains, etc.

 

[tee_eff_em]

Whatever else may be in the article, its accuracy is called into question by its attribution of the authorship of the book of Revelation to St John the Baptist. :ehh:

tee

 

[petra]

jdnation:

There is an interesting article here, concerning supposed plans by scientists that after they perfect the cloning technique and are allowed to clone a human, the first choice may perhaps be using the DNA found from the Shroud of Turin.

That aside, the main reason I’m posting it in this section is that the article also contains good information …

Except that the author erroneously attributes a quote in Revelation to John the Baptist rather than the Apostle John:

John the Baptist associated coming of an antichrist with the Number of the Beast: “ Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast : for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.”

 

[petra]

tee_eff_em:

Whatever else may be in the article, its accuracy is called into question by its attribution of the authorship of the book of Revelation to St John the Baptist. :ehh:

tee

We must have clickd “Submit Reply” at the same time!

 

[tee_eff_em]

petra:

We must have clickd “Submit Reply” at the same time!

“Timing is everything”

petra:

Except that the author erroneously attributes a quote in Revelation to John the Baptist rather than the Apostle John:

John the Baptist associated coming of an antichrist with the Number of the Beast: “ Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast : for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.”

You don’t even have to read that far down – The author makes the same mistake in the very first sentence!

tee

 

[petra]

tee_eff_em:

You don’t even have to read that far down – The author makes the same mistake in the very first sentence!

You’re right! I missed that one!

I’ve been pursuaded that many of the events of Revelation have already happenned, but if Christs’s DNA is cloned, that is too significant to dismiss. It occurred to me last night that if the DNA in the shroud is authentically Christ’s and if the DNA is someday cloned, I wonder if Jacob and Esau, also twins, are a typology of Christ and the anti-Christ.

The rough, violent, immoral, and godless Esau may correlate to the same attributes of the anti-Christ.

Jacob and Esau were the progenitors of the israelites and Edomites; Christ is the progenitor of Christians and the anti-Christ could be said to be the progenitor of those that perish.

I could be completely wrong! Just speculating here…

 

[RPConover]

I really don’t think you’re going to find DNA from blood on a supposedly 2000 year old shroud that’s been preserved well enough to even be useful , let alone complete.

 

[Della]

RPConover:

I really don’t think you’re going to find DNA from blood on a supposedly 2000 year old shroud that’s been preserved well enough to even be useful , let alone complete.

Right. The DNA would have broken down too much to clone it. It can be identified as blood, but not enough of the DNA remains to clone it. So, it’s a moot point.

 

[chris_ZA]

Aaron I.:

I’d already heard all the arguments for the validity of the shroud, but it’s nice to have something to cite for it now. The one thing I found interesting was that the shroud has the wounds on the palm. I’d always wondered why stigmatas have the wounds on the palm whereas Christ was supposedly nailed at the wrists. Now we know that the palm is in fact the proper place.

I am not sure that this site is accurate when it relates the following:

“An experiment conducted on dead bodies revealed that when palms of dead people were nailed exactly at the spot marked on the shroud of Turin the palms could bear the body weight. This is a spot having particular bones protecting the flesh from tearing and the palms from deformation”

The only experiment that I am aware of this type was by Pierre Barbet and ‘proved’ that nails could not have gone through and exited the palms and held the weight of a human body. He concluded this by conducting a number of experiments with dead bodies.

Recently in the following article posted at www.shroud.com/zugibe.htm the thesis has been proposed that the entrance wound was in the palm and the exit wound in the wrist. A warning: This article contains grisly autopsy photos.

Also I would recommend that you visit www.shroud.com which is a scientific site dedicated to Shroud research for the latest and most realiable information on the Shroud.

I would rather site www.shroud.com as a source of Shroud information as the sidebar in the raidersnewsupdate site has Pope/UFO stories, something about Stargates and Rael.

Chris ZA.

 

[jdnation]

chris ZA:

I am not sure that this site is accurate when it relates the following

It seems the article is not by the site but from PRAVDA, a Russian newspiece. Guess they got a few details wrong, particulrly the John the Baptist part.

I’m also interested in the hands Vs. Wrists argument. I guess it does work with putting it through the palm yet exiting at the wrists… or nailing the palms and tieing the wrists to the cross… as shown in ‘The Passion of the Christ’ ?

 

[geezerbob]

Considering the Church’s stand on cloning, does anyone really think she would give up the shroud for such experimentation?

 

[Brendan]

geezerbob:

Considering the Church’s stand on cloning, does anyone really think she would give up the shroud for such experimentation?

At somepoint in the past, we discussed this before, except in regards to cloning from one of the Eucharistic Miracles.

IF that’s even possible, and that’s a very big ‘IF’, there certainly wouldn’t be any ‘Second Christ’ as there is no gene for ‘Divinity’

What you would get is a fair model for future pictures of Christ. And even then it would be far from perfect.

What if this cloned person decided to wear his his with a brush cut and be clean shaven?

And he probably would have a better diet, so be taller, and probably would not work as a Carpenter with only hand tools, so no strong, weatherd build and calloused hands.

So not much point in doing the cloning in the first place.

 

[Marilena]

Aaron I.:

Identical twins have the same DNA without being the same person, so it wouldn’t necessarily bring a second coming of Christ.

I’d already heard all the arguments for the validity of the shroud, but it’s nice to have something to cite for it now. The one thing I found interesting was that the shroud has the wounds on the palm. I’d always wondered why stigmatas have the wounds on the palm whereas Christ was supposedly nailed at the wrists. Now we know that the palm is in fact the proper place.

There was one line in the article I found to be particularly delightful: “Not so long ago, the Pope who is known for his absolute honesty also answered ‘Yes’ to the question if the shroud was genuine or not.” C’mon, who can argue with that?

Actually, that is not true. The nail wounds are in the wrist area
and not the palm.

 

[Marilena]

geezerbob:

Considering the Church’s stand on cloning, does anyone really think she would give up the shroud for such experimentation?

No, and there should be no cloning of the Shroud!

 

[JamesG]

From what I understand about cloning, it isn’t possible to use DNA samples that are 2000 years old.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Aaron I.:

Identical twins have the same DNA without being the same person, so it wouldn’t necessarily bring a second coming of Christ.

I’d already heard all the arguments for the validity of the shroud, but it’s nice to have something to cite for it now. The one thing I found interesting was that the shroud has the wounds on the palm. I’d always wondered why stigmatas have the wounds on the palm whereas Christ was supposedly nailed at the wrists. Now we know that the palm is in fact the proper place.

There was one line in the article I found to be particularly delightful: “Not so long ago, the Pope who is known for his absolute honesty also answered ‘Yes’ to the question if the shroud was genuine or not.” C’mon, who can argue with that?

The Shroud has the nail wounds in the wrists, not in the palms. The hands have the characteristic claw-like curve of injury to the nerves in the wrists by the nails. Note the bloodstain on the left wrist.

shroud.com/shrdbig2.jpg

 

[vern_humphrey]

Here’s a follow up:

From http://www.shroud.com/bucklin2.htm

The Legal and Medical Aspects of the Trial and Death of Christ

“The injuries to the body can be best divided into five groups: The marks of the scourge, the nail imprints in the wrists, the nail marks in the feet, the wounds on the head, and the wound in the chest.”
"Examination of imprints left by the hands and arms of Christ provides a great deal of information, and here again it becomes immediately apparent that the position of the nails as ordinarily depicted is subject to some question. The hands as they appear on the imprint, show the marks of four fingers well. There is, however, no evidence of imprints left by the thumbs. The hands are crossed, with the left hand appearing on top of the right and covering the right wrist. In the region of the left wrist, there is a bloodstain which represents the mark left by the nail. That this mark is not in the palm is easily ascertained by simple measurements taken from the site of the mark to the tips of the fingers, proving that the mark is not in the center of the palm, but in the wrist. The mark left by the nail in the right wrist is covered by the left hand. "