Clothes at Mass

[markomalley]

In looking through the postings on this and other threads like it, it seems to me that some of the “resistance” to wearing our best clothes to Mass (excluding slipping in from work, extreme poverty and everyone agrees on modesty mostly) have to do with our ideas of God as either transcendent or immanent (or of course, my personal favorite, both). Is that what you see, also?

(Let me caveat this by saying that my personal dress code is business attire when I am reading at Mass and business attire or business casual when I am in the congregation)

My primary issue is not an effort to justify slovenliness in any way, shape, or form. However, too often, I see where “Sunday best” becomes a point of pride with people as opposed to a point of humility. We are approaching the “holy of holies” and we are witnessing heaven come down to earth on the altar, seeing the re-presentation of the eternal and ultimate sacrifice of the Lamb of God, in propitiation for **our **sins. (cf Apoc 5)

We are NOT going to a party. We are NOT going to a parade. We are witnessing God’s ultimate sacrifice for us, done once for ever. Then we are given the incredible privilege of being able to eat from the Pasch. We should approach the altar rail with an incredible sense of awe for the incredible mercy that God has poured out for us.

While the non-verbal that the slobs and sl*ts send when they come to the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is that they couldn’t care less; the non-verbal I (often) see with folks coming dressed to impress, those dressed with the latest fashions from (fill in the blank), is that they somehow feel worthy to receive the bread of life. (Yes, I realize that in many cases this may not be the case…but non-verbal signals get sent nonetheless).

 

[Fitswimmer]

While the non-verbal that the slobs and sl*ts send when they come to the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is that they couldn’t care less; the non-verbal I (often) see with folks coming dressed to impress, those dressed with the latest fashions from (fill in the blank), is that they somehow feel worthy to receive the bread of life. (Yes, I realize that in many cases this may not be the case…but non-verbal signals get sent nonetheless)./QUOTE]

Two sides of the same coin IMHO. Both have to do with pride.

 

[rstegeman]

(However, too often, I see where “Sunday best” becomes a point of pride with people as opposed to a point of humility.

Very well put! It all comes down to what’s going on inside matters more. Dress to be respectful, to be inconspicuous. Dress to keep the focus of not only you, but all in attendance, on the miracle at the Altar.

If we put as much effort into keeping our souls in order as we do on what to wear, we’d be far better off. I don’t mean this to be judgemental nor all encompassing of everyone. I just know that I can improve myself and I’m sure others could as well…

 

[Exaudideus60]

Look at yourself. If you are a woman wearing pants,ANY pants, and a veil to a trad mass, know that you look stupid and like you don’t know what you are doing. At a trad mass either be the “That’s right I am modern and bad” woman in the pants and NO veil, or wear a skirt and a veil and maybe a hint,just a hint, of humility. Come on. It’s a no brainer. It’s not about looking good it’s about obedience and humility.

 

[foolishmortal]

If you look like you’re there for a meal at the park, for the middle-class, it’s probably because the altar became a table in the '60s and thus, lacking the relics that should be inside an altar; for the poor, it may be what you can afford. If you are dressed in business attire, you are dressed well (unless you are a woman wearing a kind of business attire that sports a low cut collar and/or sleveless blouse and/or legs showing–a full dress or full blouse+dress and a veil are tops and Biblical, no-less). If you are dressed like that because you are vain, it is an internal problem and no reason for everyone to start dressing down so as not to go to the other radical end of avoiding hypocrisy or appearing an overdressed hypocrite. The clothes, as are traditional looking churches (that was ended for a minimalist, and probably, truly, modernist, version of false piety), are still to maintain standards of giving God our first fruits. If people dress casually, they may have a bad reason, but at least hypocrites in business attire went through some trouble.

I think, the fact anyone would make sure to be in business attire, only when reading, confirms traditionalist impressions of the N.O. Masses today as being designed to give a priest and lay people’s egos room to pollute the Mass (a design which helped lead many clerics and lay people to soft-thinking, though somehow avoided in the N.O. Masses of EWTN which were intended for the N.O. Mass). “The Great” did not do the job of his vocation (with the primacy he had for 25 years) of protecting our souls from modernists, but instead travelled around, talked a lot, and appointed good bishops while leaving many at the mercy of wrong ones. Possibly, anti-Catholic/anti-Christian/anti-religion regimes have done better for souls. Our souls need protection from luxury and comfort-bourne-modernism and modernist overseers of souls. This surge in conservatism is never fast enough when any souls are so exposed to fuzzy thinking. Shut down empty suburban churches if a purge of worthless vocations must be done to give everyone better priests.

 

[rstegeman]

“The Great” did not do the job of his vocation (with the primacy he had for 25 years) of protecting our souls from modernists, but instead travelled around, talked a lot, and appointed good bishops while leaving many at the mercy of wrong ones. Possibly, anti-Catholic/anti-Christian/anti-religion regimes have done better for souls. Our souls need protection from luxury and comfort-bourne-modernism and modernist overseers of souls. This surge in conservatism is never fast enough when any souls are so exposed to fuzzy thinking. Shut down empty suburban churches if a purge of worthless vocations must be done to give everyone better priests.

I take it from your comments that you don’t believe that the Pope is guided by the Holy Spirit. I am offended that you assert that the Pope, especially JPII, did anything to lead the flock astray.

From the sounds of it, you are apparantly spending too much time judging the attire of others at Mass rather than focusing on the Mass itself. I agree in giving God our first fruits, but that should start with our souls, not our clothing. If we take the argument of dressing like we would for any other important occasion, then why aren’t we showing up in tuxes and formal gowns? Would wearing anything less be sinful since we are not in our best? There are several social gatherings that require such attire and certainly the celebration of Mass is greater than any of those, right? And what about other cultures in which formal attire may not be anywhere near a suit, but more of a gown-like vestment. If they attend Mass wearing that, are they being inappropriate?

 

[mariyka]

I try to wear clean,modest clothes that will not distract others in the congregation. No one should note or remember what I wear.

 

[foolishmortal]

I did not say the last pope did anything to lead people astray, I said he made a major tactical error. If Boomer parents were raising their kids with minimal spirituality, how would his showmanship impress them. I can’t think of a Catholic friend of mine whose parents cared about following all the Church’s teachings, that is, if they knew about them. Some think things like dogmas changed after Vatican 2. Trouble-bishops, who allowed and/or promoted modernism, and trouble-priests did worse, who messed with the Mass more than those who messed with a child’s body because the former had more numbers who would believe in modernism. While a relative handful of Catholics were on fire spiritually, millions more had no interest or knew less in the seminary than they could have if they did have a home that fostered vocations.

Maybe, instead of new rosary mysteries, that pope should have made more radio addresses about people not leaving the church right after receiving Holy Communion, not dressing like you’re at the beach or your kids are at a playground, not receiving Holy Communion if you purposefully and knowingly committed a mortal sin, not marrying a non-Catholic before a non-Catholic priest without a dispensation, or not divorcing and “remarrying”. He knew there were these problems, but he went around the world putting on false ecumenical events in Asissi or appearing as a contributor to the fall of the Soviet Union, when it was only an evolution of communism that followed.

He meant well and will probably be a saint for his spirituality, but we didn't need a showman [we have too much of that with lectors who do the job that really belongs to deacons (thus, unofficial minor orders), EEEMs that do without consecrated-by-Holy-Orders hands that were meant for handling Jesus and priests who alter the Mass or interject things within the N.O. Mass];  we needed a manager to keep knaves in line for the sake of souls and I think I find more of that in the new Pope.  Anyone who rattles the cages of liberal clerics by bringing back with full freedom what never should have gone away is my kind of Pope.

About clothes, I am talking more about wearing something a little better than something you would wear any old week unless you wear your weekly best–but those who want to be disingenuous can always come up with bizarre exceptions to promote an inner spirituality in themselves and/or hypothetical others that is not as great as they think it is.

 

[He_Man]

One person said he (I think it was a guy) doesn’t dress out of the '50s or '60s. What’s wrong with dressing up like the '50s or '60s. I think we ought to go back to hats, not caps, but not wear them at Mass. We should be dressed our best for God if we dress so nicely for work. I regret I dress California casual (Polo shirt, khaki slacks, etc.) too often. Women should wear veils. It’s Biblical and in there for a good reason–not that men should not be humble, obviously, or lord their being the woman’s glory and God being theirs over them by arrogant treatment. Women have been very snooty towards men since the liberation thing, thus giving up what God put in them to make them great; men have been less-than-men slobs (I admit that about myself), who obediently do what their wife says when she gets angry (I don’t have a girlfriend or wife, but I have seen it).
The other reason for veils is a bit outdated, though. The Bible has men being obsessed over women’s hair. I don’t see that as the case today. I don’t see women unveiled and think, “I want a piece of that!”. I think maybe they should wear looser-fitting, but well-covering, clothes over their breast and bottom area (not that I think, eyes-widened, the same about that, but it’s a cultural development that white guys more often like bigger breasts and black men like the big bottom). That is more an organic change that can be prudently made. Women usually dress well enough there. They definitely need to cover their shoulders, the legs, and up to two finger-lengths below the neck. These things can cause scandal to men in church. That’s what our FSSP priest said the last 2 sentences.

I find it ironic that when visiting God, and the most important Man who ever lived, some people don’t care how they look.

But if they went to a wedding, funeral, or fancy restaraunt dressed in normal clothes, they’d feel embarassed. How many of these people went to prom in shorts?

 

[tcraig]

About clothes, I am talking more about wearing something a little better than something you would wear any old week unless you wear your weekly best–but those who want to be disingenuous can always come up with bizarre exceptions to promote an inner spirituality in themselves and/or hypothetical others that is not as great as they think it is.

So what would you have the Church do? Institute a dress code that spells out in minute detail what level of formality in dress is/is not appropriate for Sunday mass? How could one even begin to generalize “appropriate formal clothing” for Catholics worldwide?

The Church is concerned about modesty, which applies universally to all Catholics. Other than that, it’s up to individual preference/conscience.

If you prefer to dress up for mass, then I’m with you; I do so myself. But the Church takes us as we are, warts (or too casual clothing) and all. And personally, I think that’s a good thing.

 

[rstegeman]

He meant well and will probably be a saint for his spirituality, but we didn't need a showman [we have too much of that with lectors who do the job that really belongs to deacons (thus, unofficial minor orders), EEEMs that do without consecrated-by-Holy-Orders hands that were meant for handling Jesus and priests who alter the Mass or interject things within the N.O. Mass];  we needed a manager to keep knaves in line for the sake of souls and I think I find more of that in the new Pope.  Anyone who rattles the cages of liberal clerics by bringing back with full freedom what never should have gone away is my kind of Pope.

I think that you are greatly understating (which in itself is an understatement) the accomplishments of JPII. And to say that he was merely a showman is absurd. I also think it absurd for you to judge a man who inherited the chair from Peter. A man who is in charge of the souls of the millions of current Catholics, being the face of the Church for non-Catholics, try to reunite the Christian Church, try to maintain civility in a non-civil world, ensure that the Church maintain its mission, etc. etc. etc. Personally, I would find it overwhelming to know that I am basically the interpreter for God here on earth. To be able to speak and enact laws on faith matters after taking the time to discern if what you are hearing is truly being guided by the Holy Spirit and is completely free of your own biasness and personal history. Imagine knowing that ANY time you step foot in public view, you are a target. The richest men on earth don’t have to deal with a 10th of these burdens and yet he earns a pittance by comparison.

Perhaps you should walk a mile in his shoes before judging his actions.

 

[rstegeman]

About clothes, I am talking more about wearing something a little better than something you would wear any old week unless you wear your weekly best–but those who want to be disingenuous can always come up with bizarre exceptions to promote an inner spirituality in themselves and/or hypothetical others that is not as great as they think it is.

I was not being disingenuous at all. I have heard it argued that we should we our finest. We dress up for weddings, proms, funerals, etc., so we should dress up at least that nice for Mass. I’ve also heard it argued (not here) that if you don’t own a suit, you should buy one just for Mass. My point is that there is always something nicer that can be bought and worn, so where do you draw the line? Especially considering that beyond dressing respectfully and modestly, the Church herself has not decreed anything. Let me state that I am NOT promoting, nor do I think it appropriate to dress like a slob nor overtly sexy when coming to Mass. I think we should be modest, humble and respectful in our dress. Dress to blend in, not stand out. I also think that our attention while we are there should be solely on the celebration of Mass. I must do a better job in this area myself and I’m sure I’m not alone.

By your last sentence, you seem to presume a lot about the state of another’s soul. My soul is that of a sinner and I will never, NEVER profess to being anything more than that. And look at any of my posts and I don’t think you’ll find any indication of what it is I wear to Mass.

 

[jmdsc]

I find it ironic that when visiting God, and the most important Man who ever lived, some people don’t care how they look.

But if they went to a wedding, funeral, or fancy restaraunt dressed in normal clothes, they’d feel embarassed. How many of these people went to prom in shorts?

I have to agree with you. I am constantly reminding my children that we are going to God’s house. If you went to meet the president, you wouldn’t show up in less than your best!

Yes, there should be rules. Honestly, it is more distracting to me to have to sit behind the teenager that has “JUICY” written across her rear (and by the way… the sweatpants in question were so low-rise that we were blessed with a view of her rear-cleavage throught the liturgy ) than it is to see someone dressed in a classy suit/dress. Believe me - my children have spent more time giggling over the “JUICY” outfit than anyone elses appearance!!!

 

[Cathryn]

The Pastor today at Mass felt he needed to tell folks, old and young, in his sermon, that the Church is the Temple of God. He said to stop talking to each other in Church and realize that people come here to Worship God. He said that it is disrespectful to God and to each other when we don’t treat His church as His Temple. I wish more priests would remind people. I think some people dress as if they don’t realize what is really going on at Mass.

 

[rstegeman]

Yes, there should be rules. Honestly, it is more distracting to me to have to sit behind the teenager that has “JUICY” written across her rear (and by the way… the sweatpants in question were so low-rise that we were blessed with a view of her rear-cleavage throught the liturgy ) than it is to see someone dressed in a classy suit/dress. Believe me - my children have spent more time giggling over the “JUICY” outfit than anyone elses appearance!!!

YIKES. Agreed that that is very inappropriate, less than respectful or modest.

 

[ancilla_Domini]

I find it ironic that when visiting God, and the most important Man who ever lived, some people don’t care how they look.

But if they went to a wedding, funeral, or fancy restaraunt dressed in normal clothes, they’d feel embarassed. How many of these people went to prom in shorts?

I agree. Well put, my friend.

I do think priests should remind people. Dress modestly, but dress to show God that you realize that it’s the HOLY SACRIFICE of the MASS.

Unfortunately, many Catholics don’t quite understand the value of the Mass…

 

[Cathryn]

“The Mass re-enacts what took place at the Last Supper and sacramentally renews, in an unbloody manner, the Sacrifice of the Cross on Good Friday.” (St. Joseph Daily Missal) 1959

The US Catholic Bishops remind us :

“As Christians we should dress in a modest manner, wearing clothes that reflect our reverence for God and that manifest our respect for the dignity of the liturgy and for one another.”

( “Happy Are Those Who Are Called to His Supper”:
On Preparing to Receive Christ Worthily in the Eucharist

Issued by USCCB, November 14, 2006)

 

[THutch04]

What I’ve always found interesting in threads like this is that before I was Catholic, this conversation would have never happened, because you just didn’t question WHY you dressed up, it was something that you just did. We as a society dress up for much less important events, why does Mass HAVE to be different? I’m well aware that there are exceptions (and on the days when I’ve been running around and just didn’t have time to get changed I’ve really appreciated the ability to just arrive in whatever I was wearing). However, most people I know that choose to dress “comfortably” don’t do it because they can’t afford anything else, or don’t have the ability to wear anything else, they’re doing it because they just didn’t feel like dressing up. Fine enough, that’s their choice, but why is it that we can’t take an extra couple of minutes to look our best for God but we CAN take hours of planning what we’ll wear for less important events? Of course, according to some people at school I’m just one of those snobs who always dresses up without regard to the situations of those around me . So what would I know…

 

[Guitar]

Look at yourself. If you are a woman wearing pants,ANY pants, and a veil to a trad mass, know that you look stupid and like you don’t know what you are doing. At a trad mass either be the “That’s right I am modern and bad” woman in the pants and NO veil, or wear a skirt and a veil and maybe a hint,just a hint, of humility. Come on. It’s a no brainer. It’s not about looking good it’s about obedience and humility.

In your opinion.

Be my guest to come to my parish and say that in person to the couple of ladies who wear mantillas - elderly Filipinos, Indians or Italians, mostly grandmothers and who wear pants often as not.

And by the way, if ever I decided to wear a headcovering to Mass - EF or OF - it will be with pants. I work in a technical professional environment where business suits and defence uniforms are the norm for both genders. I also have to be ready to go into Personal Protection Equipment areas which require safety boots, long trousers (mandatory; skirts are not permitted) and long sleeves. My professional attire therefore consists of trousers and I can assure you that the Defence environment takes immodesty in dress quite seriously. I wear my professional attire to Mass. (It’s that or jeans.) I cannot justify expenditure on “good clothes” that I can’t wear to work, even if I did think it were OK for anyone else to tell me I must wear skirts to Mass, which I don’t. So, I guess I just won’t won’t wear a headcovering because clearly that’ll cause offense. Much better to show everybody I am modern and bad than look stupid.

 

[ancilla_Domini]

Yeah, I know many ladies who wear chapel veils and pants, and they’re not trying to be modern. As the poster above me stated, they’re mostly elderly women. And they’re definitely very pious and holy women - I wouldn’t tell them they looked stupid.