Clown Mass?

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Armor_of_Light said:
Well…maybe more of an assumption of mis-interpretation on my part. I get nervous when that whole subject comes up. Apologies if I jumped to a wrong conclusion.

You added the important clarification, so thanks!
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🙂 No matter what, we still hold that “extra Ecclesiam nulla sallus”. We’re just trying to understand what’s going on with the other 5-to-6 billion people who are not formal members of the Church 😃 We can’t be like some sects out there that claim only a handful of people are saved 🤷
 
Armor_of_Light said:
I see comments sometimes referring to the ‘clown mass’…

Is that a real thing or is it a perjorative descriptor…i/e ‘cafeteria catholic’?

Thanks
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Thanks for starting a thread on it :rolleyes:

Be at peace. It easy to find isolated examples of human error. It is easy to think those errors define us, or define the Church in the modern world. It is harder to just trust that God guides His Church despite our fallen nature.
 
clem456 said:
Thanks for starting a thread on it :rolleyes: Be at peace. It easy to find isolated examples of human error. It is easy to think those errors define us, or define the Church in the modern world. It is harder to just trust that God guides His Church despite our fallen nature.
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…and thanks for contributing 👍
 
Sirach2 said:
Misinterpretation of the alleged misinterpretation. The Church does teach the underlined ending.

EDIT: To add, that all salvation comes through the Catholic Church and Jesus Christ, though there are other paths to salvation besides official membership as a Catholic.
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This is an analogy I’ve seen posted here before by someone.
It’s like being a branch of the vine. Christ is, through His Church, the seed. All humanity takes life from Christ and the Church, whether we know it or not, even if they do not recognize the basis for that life.

The word subsists is key here. Salvation subsists in -not consists of membership in- the Church.
It’s not like joining the Elks club.
 
clem456 said:
This is an analogy I’ve seen posted here before by someone.
It’s like being a branch of the vine. Christ is, through His Church, the seed. All humanity takes life from Christ and the Church, whether we know it or not, even if they do not recognize the basis for that life.

The word subsists is key here. Salvation subsists in -not consists of membership in- the Church.
It’s not like joining the Elks club.
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At the risk of de-railing my own thread…

Then, why be catholic? Sure would be easier not to be sometimes…
 
PJH_74 said:
I actually attended one while in Catholic grade school in the early 80’s. As a child I appreciated it and as you can see I remember it to this day.

Here’s the thing, faith has to be meaningful to a person. For some of you here that means adherence to strict rules and old customs. For others it means new styles of worship. For some it means mission work. For some it’s seclusion or others working in community.

Salvation of mind, body, and sprit through Christ is the goal here; not that we all agree on how we experience faith. Even the Catholic Church, though teaching it is the most perfect way, recognizes there are other paths to salvation that are not Catholic. Even Christ taught against Jews who mainly adhered to rules and not living their faith fully; so let people explore and live out their faith in meaningful ways.
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Dressing up like a clown for mass is ridiculous. Do you also expect your doctor, your dentist and your pharmacist to work in clown clothes???

How about the person who works at the nuclear plant to provide your house with electricity? You want a clown working there?
 
iloveangels said:
Dressing up like a clown for mass is ridiculous. Do you also expect your doctor, your dentist and your pharmacist to work in clown clothes???

How about the person who works at the nuclear plant to provide your house with electricity? You want a clown working there?
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I’ll guarantee you a doctor has showed up for work dressed in a costume somewhere sometime.

The medical profession is corrupt!!!
 
clem456 said:
Because you love God and the Church He founded?🤷
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I certainly do. There is confusion surrounding the salvation question though…not by me or you perhaps, but for some (most?) catholics and others I asked the obvious question.
 
PJH_74 said:
I actually attended one while in Catholic grade school in the early 80’s. As a child I appreciated it and as you can see I remember it to this day.

Here’s the thing, faith has to be meaningful to a person. For some of you here that means adherence to strict rules and old customs. For others it means new styles of worship. . . .
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I assure you, there is nothing “new” about inappropriate, unworthy, scandalous and even outright sacrilegious worship: it is a most ancient “style”, with the first recorded instance of its practice being accomplished by Cain.
 
Armor_of_Light said:
I certainly do. There is confusion surrounding the salvation question though…not by me or you perhaps, but for some (most?) catholics and others I asked the obvious question.
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There -can be- confusion amongst the faithful. However, the Church’s teaching is not confused, It is clear, eloquent, and beautiful to behold:
This is the one Church of Christ which in the Creed is professed as one, holy, catholic and apostolic, (12*) which our Saviour, after His Resurrection, commissioned Peter to shepherd,(74) and him and the other apostles to extend and direct with authority,(75) which He erected for all ages as “the pillar and mainstay of the truth”.(76) This Church constituted and organized in the world as a society, **subsists in *the Catholic Church, which is governed by the successor of Peter and by the Bishops in communion with him,(13) although many elements of sanctification and of truth are found outside of its visible structure. These elements, as gifts belonging to the Church of Christ, are forces impelling toward catholic unity.
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Armor_of_Light said:
At the risk of de-railing my own thread…

Then, why be catholic? Sure would be easier not to be sometimes…
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Because this path, (or, to use the Lord’s designation) this “way” is alone the only one guaranteed to be sure, infallible and authentic.

It’s like asking, ‘Why buy the real deal, when you can simply (and much more cheaply) just buy a knock-off ?’ The answer is that you simply don’t know if the knock-off will last, and it doesn’t come with anything like a guarantee. Moreover, exactly because it isn’t the real thing, it doesn’t come with the same satisfaction as the authentic.
 
clem456 said:
There -can be- confusion amongst the faithful. However, the Church’s teaching is not confused, It is **clear, eloquent, and beautiful **to behold:
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Amen to that… Thank God for the beauty and eloquence of the church!
 
It’s difficult for us to imagine, that if we can admit that God can save any human being according to his grace, that does not diminish the Catholic Church or it’s members one bit.
 
clem456 said:
It’s difficult for us to imagine, that if we allow that God can save any human being according to his grace, that does not diminish the Catholic Church or it’s members one bit.
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??? I have no idea what this means.
 
iloveangels said:
??? I have no idea what this means.
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This is how I think anyway, and I suspect many others.

1 "For the kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who went out early in the morning to hire laborers for his vineyard. 2 After agreeing with the laborers for the usual daily wage, he sent them into his vineyard. 3 When he went out about nine o’clock, he saw others standing idle in the marketplace; 4 and he said to them, "You also go into the vineyard, and I will pay you whatever is right.’ So they went. 5 When he went out again about noon and about three o’clock, he did the same. 6 And about five o’clock he went out and found others standing around; and he said to them, "Why are you standing here idle all day?’ 7 They said to him, "Because no one has hired us.’ He said to them, "You also go into the vineyard.’ 8 When evening came, the owner of the vineyard said to his manager, "Call the laborers and give them their pay, beginning with the last and then going to the first.’ 9 When those hired about five o’clock came, each of them received the usual daily wage. 10 Now when the first came, they thought they would receive more; but each of them also received the usual daily wage. 11 And when they received it, they grumbled against the landowner, 12 saying, "These last worked only one hour, and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the day and the scorching heat.’ 13 But he replied to one of them, “Friend, I am doing you no wrong; did you not agree with me for the usual daily wage? 14 Take what belongs to you and go; I choose to give to this last the same as I give to you. 15 Am I not allowed to do what I choose with what belongs to me? Or are you envious because I am generous?’ 16 So the last will be first, and the first will be last.” 17
 
clem456 said:
There -can be- confusion amongst the faithful. However, the Church’s teaching is not confused, It is clear, eloquent, and beautiful to behold:
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I’ve been re-reading Lumen Gentium and I just came across this interesting set of responses from the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith on exactly this passage:

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20070629_responsa-quaestiones_en.html

They spell out exactly what is meant by the passage. Very handy.

We now return to our discussion of clowns. :o
 
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