CNN: The lavish homes of American archbishops

[BettyBoop416]

Smear job by CNN
Just look at the vitriolic comments by CNN’s readers.

Just because you don’t agree with it, it’s a “smear job?” And what do the comments have to do with the article? You’ll find “vitriolic comments” following just about every news article on the Internet.

This article is really just anti-Catholicism.

How is the article anti-Catholic? It seemed pretty factual to me. Just because you don’t agree with it doesn’t make it anti-Catholic.

 

[WilT]

He may not take a vow of poverty, but the way he lives his life is an indication of what he believes. *Modesty is a major virtue *in Christianity, particularly Catholicism. How can he expect anyone to accept what he believes and preaches if he doesn’t live it?

So well said. Simple but for some, soooo difficult for others:thumbsup:

 

[WilT]

Just because you don’t agree with it, it’s a “smear job?” And what do the comments have to do with the article? You’ll find “vitriolic comments” following just about every news article on the Internet.



How is the article anti-Catholic? It seemed pretty factual to me. Just because you don’t agree with it doesn’t make it anti-Catholic.

 

[TEPO]

So well said. Simple but for some, soooo difficult for others:thumbsup:

Personally, i dont believe in modesty anymore. I dont practice it and i dont teach it to my children. I teach Minimalism. Its about cutting everything out of your life that you dont absolutely need… But the things i do absolutely need, i get the best i possibly can within reason.

 

[Exiled_Child]

Personally, i dont believe in modesty anymore. I dont practice it and i dont teach it to my children. I teach Minimalism. Its about cutting everything out of your life that you dont absolutely need… But the things i do absolutely need, i get the best i possibly can within reason.

Maybe that’s the best description of modesty there is, actually. As far as earthly possessions and modest means are concerned, I mean. It may be really pricey originally, but when you buy high quality utilitarian stuff you tend to hang on to it forever, pass it down to your kids, etc. That seems very modest and low-key to me.

 

[Path_Finder]

Not sure if this article was posted here.

catholicreview.org/blogs/fertile-soil/2014/08/08/cnn-is-wrong-about-the-archbishops-residence

Discusses this topic.

 

[phil19034]

How is the article anti-Catholic? It seemed pretty factual to me. Just because you don’t agree with it doesn’t make it anti-Catholic.

The reason I say its anti-Catholic is because it is an article written about ONLY the Catholic Church by CNN.

If EWTN News or the National Catholic Register wrote this piece then I wouldn’t have an issue.

I question CNN’s motives. There is no mention of other religions. No mention of the salaries. Jewish Rabbis can make over $100,000 per year, Protestant ministers avg around $40,000 with sometimes with rectories for the Pastor’s whole family. Bishops average only $20/25,000 per year.

A neutral piece would have been reporting several religions.

Sometimes saying the “truth” can be slander if its not spoken in full context.

All this article truly accomplishes is upsetting the Catholic Faithful, creates more distrust of the Bishops, and gives anti-Catholics ammunition. Which is what I think their true motive is/was.

 

[phil19034]

Not sure if this article was posted here.

catholicreview.org/blogs/fertile-soil/2014/08/08/cnn-is-wrong-about-the-archbishops-residence

Discusses this topic.

Good of opinion piece. I agree with the article and the author’s comments in the comments section 100%

 

[WilT]

Not sure if this article was posted here.

catholicreview.org/blogs/fertile-soil/2014/08/08/cnn-is-wrong-about-the-archbishops-residence

Discusses this topic.

I don’t think the two groups you mentioned would bring out this story nor comment on it. I find that they seem to stay neutral on things like this. I believe it is important that we get to know where our donations may be going. I don’t know of a Bishops that says ‘hey Joe this is where I live’, much less ‘hey Joe, why don’t you come by and have coffee with me!’. I still hold that most cathedrals are built to hold both small and large events. They don’t need to host private activities in mansions.

 

[BettyBoop416]

The reason I say its anti-Catholic is because it is an article written about ONLY the Catholic Church by CNN.

If EWTN News or the National Catholic Register wrote this piece then I wouldn’t have an issue.

I question CNN’s motives. There is no mention of other religions. No mention of the salaries. Jewish Rabbis can make over $100,000 per year, Protestant ministers avg around $40,000 with sometimes with rectories for the Pastor’s whole family. Bishops average only $20/25,000 per year.

A neutral piece would have been reporting several religions.

Sometimes saying the “truth” can be slander if its not spoken in full context.

All this article truly accomplishes is upsetting the Catholic Faithful, creates more distrust of the Bishops, and gives anti-Catholics ammunition. Which is what I think their true motive is/was.

 

[BettyBoop416]

The reason I say its anti-Catholic is because it is an article written about ONLY the Catholic Church by CNN.

If EWTN News or the National Catholic Register wrote this piece then I wouldn’t have an issue.

I question CNN’s motives. There is no mention of other religions. No mention of the salaries. Jewish Rabbis can make over $100,000 per year, Protestant ministers avg around $40,000 with sometimes with rectories for the Pastor’s whole family. Bishops average only $20/25,000 per year.

A neutral piece would have been reporting several religions.

Sometimes saying the “truth” can be slander if its not spoken in full context.

All this article truly accomplishes is upsetting the Catholic Faithful, creates more distrust of the Bishops, and gives anti-Catholics ammunition. Which is what I think their true motive is/was.

So it’s not really the message you don’t like, but the messenger.

You’re entitled to your opinion of course, but I think it’s a real stretch to call this article anti-Catholic.

I bet the protestant “bishops” who live in million dollar mansions are few and far between.

 

[Thorns]

I think if living lavish was as widespread in other religions we’d be hearing about them too. I am starting to think that the problem is so common within the Catholic Church and thats why you hear about it more in the media. Therr is only so much bias and slander the media can produce. If Bishops keep giving them ammunition to blast the Church then who is really to blame?

 

[Starrsmother]

The reason I say its anti-Catholic is because it is an article written about ONLY the Catholic Church by CNN.

If EWTN News or the National Catholic Register wrote this piece then I wouldn’t have an issue.

I question CNN’s motives. There is no mention of other religions. No mention of the salaries. Jewish Rabbis can make over $100,000 per year, Protestant ministers avg around $40,000 with sometimes with rectories for the Pastor’s whole family. Bishops average only $20/25,000 per year.

A neutral piece would have been reporting several religions.

Sometimes saying the “truth” can be slander if its not spoken in full context.

All this article truly accomplishes is upsetting the Catholic Faithful, creates more distrust of the Bishops, and gives anti-Catholics ammunition. Which is what I think their true motive is/was.

I’m a Catholic and I love my church, but this response is typical of many I see today that (in my opinion) do nothing to help the church. I understand why some Catholics get testy when someone criticizes anything Catholic. Haven’t we just been lambasted by everything from the pedophile priest scandal to the Vatican Bank dealing with the Mafia, to Catholics who have decided to make up their own rules for artificial contraception, abortion, etc.—and then there’s good old V2 after which I read that something like at least 1/3 of the church simply through up their cumulative hands and threw in the towel.

The problem is that we SHOULD talk. WE–us lay people–are a part of the body of Christ too. If a protestant brings up a negative point that’s true, we should be able to offer apologetics on the matter. If something untrue is thrown at us, then we should be able to defend the church. What we should NOT do is get testy that someone dares to paint the Catholic church in an unfavorable light. As Jesus said, “they persecuted Me–they will persecute you too”! If people–both lay people and priests had stepped forward and discussed the issue when the whole pedophilia thing started, I truly believe it would have been a very small scandal. It would have been dealt with. Instead, there was a cover up–how well did that work out?

I got a 10 day suspension from this site a few weeks back for pointing out some truths about what all happened with V2. To me, that’s one example of hierarchy sticking their heads in the sand on any subject that makes them the tiniest bit uncomforable. HINT to CAF: Catholics EVERYWHERE talk about V2–the good and the bad of it! If I get hit for this, let me just tell the admins up front to please just remove me from the forum. We should be able to discuss our church honestly and fairly and answer and explain things about it without being black balled! Otherwise it’s a marxist forum and I’ not interested. What I’ll point out again though to the author of this particular post is that he or she is probably right that CNN was pointing a finger only at the salaries of Catholic priests. So what—unless we have something to be ashamed of–and if we’re paying bishops over $100,000.00/year, we just might! As Catholics, I deeply believe that our goal is NOT to simply be NO WORSE than any other church out there, but by our following Christ and His MANY teachings about poverty and our obligation to the poor, to be 100% BETTER than any other church out there. I wouldn’t wast 5 minutes of my time being upset about what a bunch of libs on CNN said about church salaries, housing etc. I’d be FAR MORE upset if the church tried to bury the accusation–because ten, everyone will know or at least suspect that it’s TRUE!

 

[phil19034]

I’m a Catholic and I love my church, but this response is typical of many I see today that (in my opinion) do nothing to help the church. I understand why some Catholics get testy when someone criticizes anything Catholic. Haven’t we just been lambasted by everything from the pedophile priest scandal to the Vatican Bank dealing with the Mafia, to Catholics who have decided to make up their own rules for artificial contraception, abortion, etc.—and then there’s good old V2 after which I read that something like at least 1/3 of the church simply through up their cumulative hands and threw in the towel.

The problem is that we SHOULD talk. WE–us lay people–are a part of the body of Christ too. If a protestant brings up a negative point that’s true, we should be able to offer apologetics on the matter. If something untrue is thrown at us, then we should be able to defend the church. What we should NOT do is get testy that someone dares to paint the Catholic church in an unfavorable light. As Jesus said, “they persecuted Me–they will persecute you too”! If people–both lay people and priests had stepped forward and discussed the issue when the whole pedophilia thing started, I truly believe it would have been a very small scandal. It would have been dealt with. Instead, there was a cover up–how well did that work out?

I got a 10 day suspension from this site a few weeks back for pointing out some truths about what all happened with V2. To me, that’s one example of hierarchy sticking their heads in the sand on any subject that makes them the tiniest bit uncomforable. HINT to CAF: Catholics EVERYWHERE talk about V2–the good and the bad of it! If I get hit for this, let me just tell the admins up front to please just remove me from the forum. We should be able to discuss our church honestly and fairly and answer and explain things about it without being black balled! Otherwise it’s a marxist forum and I’ not interested. What I’ll point out again though to the author of this particular post is that he or she is probably right that CNN was pointing a finger only at the salaries of Catholic priests. So what—unless we have something to be ashamed of–and if we’re paying bishops over $100,000.00/year, we just might! As Catholics, I deeply believe that our goal is NOT to simply be NO WORSE than any other church out there, but by our following Christ and His MANY teachings about poverty and our obligation to the poor, to be 100% BETTER than any other church out there. I wouldn’t wast 5 minutes of my time being upset about what a bunch of libs on CNN said about church salaries, housing etc. I’d be FAR MORE upset if the church tried to bury the accusation–because ten, everyone will know or at least suspect that it’s TRUE!

Starrsmother - I don’t disagree with what you are saying. I simply disagree with the idea of blindly selling houses which are already paid for if their upkeep isn’t a drain on the Diocese. I don’t think we need Bishops building new mansions for no reason. But I also don’t we should simply sell for the sake of selling them.

Now, if the diocese needs the money… sell (just like mine did). We have sold plenty of real estate, but we’ve sold cemetary land, future parish land, land for a future high school, nursing homes, closed churches, etc. We’ve gone from 267 parishes in 2010 to 219 in 2014, with expectations to close more in 2015 or 2016.

So in our instance, we need to sell to keep the Church a float. If we didn’t have real estate to sell, we would be in more dire straights.

If your bishop has a mansion, get more priests to move in with him, or make it a orphanage or something. Don’t simply sell it for the sake of selling it unless you need the money.

The arguement of just sell it bothers me, just like I don’t like it when bishops buy expensive homes today.

I hope I’m making sense.

 

[phil19034]

I think if living lavish was as widespread in other religions we’d be hearing about them too. I am starting to think that the problem is so common within the Catholic Church and thats why you hear about it more in the media. Therr is only so much bias and slander the media can produce. If Bishops keep giving them ammunition to blast the Church then who is really to blame?

Bishops in the Episcopal Church can make over $200,000 per year

ehow.com/info_11368571_salary-episcopal-bishop.html

 

[adawgj]

Starrsmother - I don’t disagree with what you are saying. I simply disagree with the idea of blindly selling houses which are already paid for if their upkeep isn’t a drain on the Diocese. I don’t think we need Bishops building new mansions for no reason. But I also don’t we should simply sell for the sake of selling them.

Now, if the diocese needs the money… sell (just like mine did). We have sold plenty of real estate, but we’ve sold cemetary land, future parish land, land for a future high school, nursing homes, closed churches, etc. We’ve gone from 267 parishes in 2010 to 219 in 2014, with expectations to close more in 2015 or 2016.

So in our instance, we need to sell to keep the Church a float. If we didn’t have real estate to sell, we would be in more dire straights.

If your bishop has a mansion, get more priests to move in with him, or make it a orphanage or something. Don’t simply sell it for the sake of selling it unless you need the money.

The arguement of just sell it bothers me, just like I don’t like it when bishops buy expensive homes today.

I hope I’m making sense.

Totally agree with you.

 

[Thorns]

Bishops in the Episcopal Church can make over $200,000 per year

ehow.com/info_11368571_salary-episcopal-bishop.html

The problem isnt how much they make, its what they do with the money. I think we should all be able to agree that spending 43 million on a house is excessive. If you can’t agree on that statement then we’re beyond the point of rational discussion.

 

[phil19034]

The problem isn’t how much they make, its what they do with the money. I think we should all be able to agree that spending 43 million on a house is excessive. If you can’t agree on that statement then we’re beyond the point of rational discussion.

of course spending 43 million on a house is excessive, it is abuse. Housing should be practical and done wisely. I even think that what the Archbishop of Newark is doing with his retirement home is likely a very poor use of money and unwise (but I also don’t know the percentages of earmarked money).

But I’m not talking about spending money on a new house or luxury additions/upgrades. I’m talking about living in one that’s paid off and/or living in one that was donated (assuming the upkeep isn’t a drain on the diocese).

I believe that Canon Law states that when someone donates money or property for a specific purpose, it must be used for that purpose (at least for a time). Sometimes, rich Catholics leave houses, property, etc to the Church when they die, need a big write off, or just out of pure love of the Church. Often, these rich people give specific instructions regarding the use/purpose of the donation, which are not just bound by canon law, but also secular law.

If a rich person dies, and leaves one of their houses when they die to the diocese to be the home of the Bishop, then that’s what it will be used for. The Bishop would be dumb to turn down the home because it could be used as future capital for the Church.

Now, that doesn’t mean the Bishop needs to live there alone. I would personal prefer that he fills up the bedrooms.

Just don’t sell it for the sake of selling it.

 

[Starrsmother]

of course spending 43 million on a house is excessive, it is abuse. Housing should be practical and done wisely. I even think that what the Archbishop of Newark is doing with his retirement home is likely a very poor use of money and unwise (but I also don’t know the percentages of earmarked money).

But I’m not talking about spending money on a new house or luxury additions/upgrades. I’m talking about living in one that’s paid off and/or living in one that was donated (assuming the upkeep isn’t a drain on the diocese).

I believe that Canon Law states that when someone donates money or property for a specific purpose, it must be used for that purpose (at least for a time). Sometimes, rich Catholics leave houses, property, etc to the Church when they die, need a big write off, or just out of pure love of the Church. Often, these rich people give specific instructions regarding the use/purpose of the donation, which are not just bound by canon law, but also secular law.

If a rich person dies, and leaves one of their houses when they die to the diocese to be the home of the Bishop, then that’s what it will be used for. The Bishop would be dumb to turn down the home because it could be used as future capital for the Church.

Now, that doesn’t mean the Bishop needs to live there alone. I would personal prefer that he fills up the bedrooms.

Just don’t sell it for the sake of selling it.

Not to be nit picky, bu if a wealthy person dies and leaves the church a 43 million dollar mansion, it doesn’t seem to me that it is “selling it just for the sake of selling it”, to sell it and use the money to help in some of the really poor countries or for truly destitute people. Pope Francis seems to inherently grasp this fact. Even as a pope, he lives a modest life—just as he did when he was a cardinal in Argentina, where he lived in a small apartment with a handicapped fellow Jesuit that he cared for. Just because the church gets a big check or a ritzy property donated to them—or even if a church owned mansion is paid off is NO reason, in my opinion, for the local bishop or cardinal to throw up his worldly little hands in glee and move right in! I remind you again that when Jesus sent the 12 apostles out, He told them not to take even a second cloak with them. I don’t think Jesus ever wanted His church to be turned into an occupation for the leaders to get wealthy–infact, I believe He threw the money changers out of the temple TWICE over just this issue. I think Catholic hierarchy should pawn their Rolexes, live as their parishoners live and remember that beatitude about “blessed be the poor”. It’s hard to respect church hierarchy who have turned what was supposed to be a vocation into a high dollar CEO like position! And THAT is the truth!

 

[phil19034]

Not to be nit picky, bu if a wealthy person dies and leaves the church a 43 million dollar mansion, it doesn’t seem to me that it is “selling it just for the sake of selling it”, to sell it and use the money to help in some of the really poor countries or for truly destitute people. Pope Francis seems to inherently grasp this fact. Even as a pope, he lives a modest life—just as he did when he was a cardinal in Argentina, where he lived in a small apartment with a handicapped fellow Jesuit that he cared for. Just because the church gets a big check or a ritzy property donated to them—or even if a church owned mansion is paid off is NO reason, in my opinion, for the local bishop or cardinal to throw up his worldly little hands in glee and move right in! I remind you again that when Jesus sent the 12 apostles out, He told them not to take even a second cloak with them. I don’t think Jesus ever wanted His church to be turned into an occupation for the leaders to get wealthy–infact, I believe He threw the money changers out of the temple TWICE over just this issue. I think Catholic hierarchy should pawn their Rolexes, live as their parishoners live and remember that beatitude about “blessed be the poor”. It’s hard to respect church hierarchy who have turned what was supposed to be a vocation into a high dollar CEO like position! And THAT is the truth!

This is the attitude that concerns me. Why do we put priests and bishops on such high pedestals?!?! Why must we make them live a life of poverty but it’s ok for the laity to live in luxury? Are priests not sinners too? Why do we EXPECT them to be perfect?

Also priests and bishops make no money. Anything they have has either been given to them as gifts, inherited, etc. They do not become wealthy. Some Bishops might live like they are wealthy, but the Church owns all of that stuff.

Priests sacrifice their entire lives for God and for US. We would not be able to receive The Graces of Confession, Communion, and Confirmation without them. But instead we want to FORCE them to make more sacrifices to man.

Can’t anyone see the hypocrisy? So you assume that a priest who owns a Rolex is not a good priest and should pawn their watch to give to the poor? What if the watch was his father’s watch or given to him by a relative? What if it has sentimental value? Oh well, who cares… You are a priest so you must sell it.

Most priests don’t take vows of poverty. Most priests have troubles with sin just like us. Pope Francis did take a vow of poverty (he’s only the 19th Pope to come from a Religious Order)

If you think its so important for a priest to sell his Rolex and give to the poor, then ALL Catholics should do the same.

Also, we should sell all of our Churches and the art within them and move our parishes into strip malls. Give all the money from the sale of our Churches to the poor and make our priests live in homeless shelters so they can be with the poor too.

The Catholic Church gives and does more for the poor than any other organization in the world. Could we do more, sure, people can always do more. But the real key is to solve the societal issues that cause it.

Also, this Church is dedicated to helping ALL souls to to heaven. Should we stop having CYO so we can donate that money to the poor? Close the Catholic Schools so the money spent there can go to the poor?

I mean for Pete’s sake, I know there has been abuse. But most Bishops and Priests are doing the right thing day after day. Praying for us every single day. Praying the Mass every single day, working their entire lives for our salvation.

And I will leave with this… When the woman anointed Christ with expensive oils, Christ didn’t agree with his apostles when they suggested they sell it for the poor. If priests are given gifts, they should not be looked down for accepting the or overly applauded for turning them down. When we leave this world, The Lord will judge us all based on our sins. Bishops, Priests, Deacons and Laity alike.