Co-Worker Hearing Voices

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Have you decided whether or not you will approach this woman or the HR department and what you will say?
For now I’ve just been praying for her and trying to get to know her better. I probably will not be approaching the HR Dept. unless the situation worsens. Recently she seems to be doing better, so I guess everyone’s prayers have been helping!
 
For now I’ve just been praying for her and trying to get to know her better. I probably will not be approaching the HR Dept. unless the situation worsens. Recently she seems to be doing better, so I guess everyone’s prayers have been helping!
I’m glad you decided not to approach HR. I second that decision, and I offer the following reinforcement for you:

For the love of God,
DO NOT ANYBODY CONTACT YOUR HR DEPARTMENT AND TELL THEM YOU SUSPECT A COWORKER HAS MENTAL ILLNESS, UNLESS IT IS AN EMERGENCY AND SOMEONE’S IMMEDIATE SAFETY IS IN JEOPARDY!!!

I had a mental illness, severe bipolar disorder. When I started showing symptoms, I began taking some medication my doctor prescribed for me (but didn’t know if I was going to take) and I confided in my boss what was going on, and he understood it.

A few days after I started medication, a coworker who claimed to be my good friend, came to the conclusion that I was having some problems, because I was acting strangely. She knew I had mental illness problems in the distant past, but that it was over and that I had no treatment. She knew nothing about my conversation with my doctor nor my boss – but she assumed since I hadn’t told her I was taking the medicine I wasn’t.

Anyway, she decided it was time to take matters into her own hands so in order to “help” me, she decided she would bring the company’s resources to bear on this problem. She couldn’t get ahold of our boss because he out of town in a meeting. Gosh, she might have had to wait an hour or two, but no, she thought I needed “help” and “rest” so she “helped” me by contacting the second level manager, who hardly knew me because he was always out of town – he had an office in Wichita, but stayed mostly in his New Jersey office.

The first I knew anything, my “friend” got a little underling to back her up, and asked me into a conference room where she said, “you need rest and you should go home.” I told her I felt fine, and she said, “you’re scaring people.” Later I was to learn that my other coworkers did not feel threatened at all; she was scared “for me” that I needed help.

Puzzled, I went home. Soon I got a call from a company psychologist, who said he needed to have clearance before he could let me back to work. He said he had arranged for an interview at out local hospital, and that if I reported to the ER I would be able to take the interview to see if I can come back to work.

Turns out it was a trap. There was no doctor, and no interview. I was led into a room and asked to wait, until there were about eight people in white coats who came to take me, against my will, into a lockup ward. That was on June 8, 2001.

First of all, a mental patient does not have the rights an accused criminal has. They refused to tell me on what basis they were locking me up (I kept asking them why they thought I was a threat to myself or others) and under whose authority. The wouldn’t tell me. They don’t have to tell me anything. Mental patients have no rights. I was in the lockup for three days, before I met the woman who had signed the order for me to be captured like an animal, no interviews, no questions asked, no right to object, much less appeal. The woman had accepted the hearsay of my doctor, who had accepted the hearsay of the company psychologist who never met me except a half hour on the telephone when he called me at home, who listened to the hearsay of the second level manager who didn’t know me, who listened to the mistaken “facts” of my coworker – later I found out she had told the manager this: “Alan is acting strangely, and it’s scaring people. He has a history of mental disease, and right now he is showing symptoms but is not taking any medication for it.”

Fast forward: that hospitalization was the single most destructive thing that could have been done to me and my family, in my life. Now, 10 years later, I am healing from it.

Yes, my dear friend Bonnie was so kind to me, that she got me help even though I didn’t realize I “needed” it. The other engineers in my department had no idea what she was talking about “he’s scaring people” but that didn’t matter – now we have a situation in which management and the psychology department were operating under the premise that I am an uncontrollable mental patient, refusing treatment, and scaring people. What else could they do then get me out using whatever methods available.

After several weeks, the doctor, with permission from my psychiatrist (not the person who locked me up but a doctor I actually trusted) arranged for me to go back to work four hours a day, but after I was back for two days they gave me notice that I was being “laid off.”

So I lost my job, and ultimately my career. My friend, by her intervention and by going behind my back and going above my boss’s head, took the first step that resulted in my family with stay-at-home wife and six children, to fall into poverty.

There’s more to the story, but I hope I have convinced you NOT to take matters into your own hands unless you know pretty darn well what you’re talking about and somebody’s at imminent risk of getting physically hurt.

(continued)
 
(continued)

I’m happy to field questions and respond to objections to what I have said or how I have characterized the situation. Suffice it for now to hear my plea not to turn this person in.

Did I need help? Yes. Was I getting the help? Yes. Did I tell all my coworkers my private medical details so that they would know I’m getting help? No. Was it affecting my job performance? No. Did this woman know better then my boss what was going on in his department? No, but she thought she did.

Did the hospitalization do anything in my favor? No, it hurt me very much in many ways, and my small children were left with no idea why their daddy had been taken away from them. The hospitalization aggravated my illness, and likely added years to my recovery rate.

I suppose I could thank the Lord that my family got to experience prolonged poverty because it is good for my spirit. I am thankful to the Lord, but I am not thankful for the well-intentioned behavior of my close “friend” and confidant (on nearly all other matters) for having triggered a decade of hardship.

Right now I have a job working for minimum wage, 12 hours a week, at Papa Johns, and I am thankful for that. My prospects to return to my profession – for which I hold a master’s degree in electrical engineering – are very bleak, as I am now out of date and out of touch with current technology, plus now I would have to explain how I could be on medical leave for 10 years and claim that another company should take me on when they have a stack of resumes from young engineers that already know how to work the software tools I didn’t because I was out of the work force.

More later maybe, and like I said ask any questions and I’ll answer them. Meanwhile, if you find any merit in my argument, DO NOT go behind this person’s back. Good chance you don’t know enough of the facts to know whether your action is going to help anyone, or cause damage irreversible by anyone short of God.

Oh, btw, the Lord has given me thorough and convincing healing, in opposition to the prediction of the doctors, who said I would have difficulties my entire life. That is the subject of other threads, though.

So my house is in ruins due to my inability to perform maintenance or hire it done, I have grim prospects of ever supporting myself – much less my family – financially. You know what, though? I found out that a clear, calm, lucid mind is more valuable than any of that.

So who can say what my life had been had my friend kept her nose out of my private business, or at least talked to me before calling security on me, ending my career and permanently altering major aspects of my life.

So if you think that putting someone in the hospital is a way to help them, think again. Sometimes it helps, sometimes not. Putting someone in the hospital does get them out of the way so they don’t bother or inconvenience us.

Anyone who thinks mental patients are best helped by putting them in a lockup ward in a hospital, please read this wikipedia article about an experiment in hospitals’ ability to detect whether somebody even has a mental illness or not. It’s a bit dated, but things have gotten only slightly better since then. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosenhan_experiment

Peace and ❤️,
Alan
 
Ignoring people’s problems and letting them deal on their own isn’t loving thy neighbor.
Tell that to a Vietnam War critic.
Religion operates in a community - no ones religious orientation is between them and God alone. There is no room for a middle-man?? What were the apostles, what are priests, what is the laity, and what was Jesus? What is Mary? The saints, Pope, angels… Shall I go on? Looks like there are many “middle-men.”
Really? Did Jesus meddle in other people’s lives? Did Mary go snooping about other people’s cubicles? Even priests, who hear your confession, are pretty much obliged to act as if they did not hear the sins confessed. Does the Pope have me arrested for mortal sins? That’s enough to tell anyone how much freedom there is in such “middle men”.
It is “sacrilegious” in today’s society to combine God with school, psychology, etc. These arguments against God may sound logical and work well for this world, but unfortunately they will do those who use them no good in the next!
So anything goes so long as it is justified by religion? I guess all those 300 years my country suffered under Spanish imperialism was justified so long as Catholicism was introduced to save the souls of my ancestors yes? What about those mental patients in ancient times who suffered abuse because superstitious nuts thought them possessed? Look at the Salem Witch trials. Look at the witch hunts. Catholics may have committed less than our Protestant brethren but they killed people in the name of exorcism nonetheless.
There is no need to point out that this is off topic. I started this thread and have been speaking to you directly for the last few posts now, about involving religion/Catholicism/Christ in every aspect our lives, not about my co-worker. If this makes you uncomfortable or you wish not to respond then fine, but no need to ignore what I’ve said (out of love for you, by the way) and change the subject.
You are justifying yourself as some kind of saintly hero who thinks our religion gives you the right to take things into your own hands. Hence, your insistence is hardly off topic. As a matter of fact, it is the root of the problem here.
PS- Pride is the root of all sin; Humility defeats all sin. I am not interested in arguing for sake of it. If you find that you are at odds with the Church’s teachings then you may want to think about where you stand with your faith.
Rather prideful of you then to assume I am the one not following Church teaching when I’ve studied enough about exorcism to say you, who are not even a priest, are in direct violation with proper procedures regarding allegedly “possessed” persons.

According to a book I have here written by the head of the Exorcism office of the Manila Archdiocese, affected parties should first of all consult a priest. Seeing as how I very much doubt your co-worker would even accept your invitation, the best you can do is stay out of it. Forcing your religion upon others will only marginalize the people you are reaching out to.

Use your head please.
 
I believe that God is involved in every activity of our lives.

But religion is not that God. Religion is a pointer to God, and she only exists to bring us closer to each other and to God. That’s true no matter what the religion, western or eastern. Eastern religions call it other things, but there ultimate goal is Divine Union, or however they wish to describe it in their language – nirvana, etc. To say that fulfilling your religion is the end in and of itself is to make the Church a false idol. It does God’s work here on earth, but it isn’t God.

If you are talking to another lover of Catholicism, then I can see why you’d want to openly share your faith. If you want to share your faith with a person who may even already have negative preconceived notions about Catholicism, then IMO that you need to show them love before they find out you’re Catholic, or you’ll be battling a brick wall.

I heard a joke about a lady who had several Christian bumper stickers on her car. Another driver her cut her off in traffic and she got very angry, so much so that a police officer saw her raging and pulled her over. He asked for her license, went away for a bit, then returned with the license and said, “thank you, ma’am, you may go.” Bewildered, the lady asked the police officer, “why did you pull me over?” He replied, "well, when I saw how you were acting and all those bumper stickers, I assumed the car was stolen.

What if a person comes up and says, “hi, I’m a Mormon, and I want you to know my religion is better than yours?” Are you going to give them an open ear?

When I’m talking to someone who hates Catholics, I try to get them to talk, and talk, and talk, if possible. I listen intently and ask questions to make sure I understand what they’re saying – no matter how stupid it is of a thing they are saying. Once I hear them out, I choose one particular detail about what they said that I can agree with. Then I say, “I don’t share your views on all of that, but when you say blah blah blah, I think I can really relate to that.” … and when you have gotten them to take the bait, and only then, do you try to set the hook, with “my religion agrees with you on this part of what you said,” and then when they ask what religion I say “Catholic.” Then I have them where I want them. They showed that they considered me worth confiding in, and listening to, before I had a chance to tell them I was Catholic. If I was wearing a rosary around my neck and a “Hi, I’m a Catholic” name tag, they would have put up their shields and not listened to me at all.

Jesus says that the son of man will come as a thief in the night. I think that means he goes into the parts of our heart that are controlled by the world, and fixes it – but when He does, he doesn’t do it by breaking a door or window, because that would set off the alarm and He would be feared as an intruder. He knocks, but we have to open the door. If people don’t like Catholics, they’re the ones most in need of the message, and if you telegraph your intentions and they see you coming, they will bolt their doors and not answer.

So which is more likely to give someone a desire to check out the Church? Someone who feels your love and then finds out you’re Catholic, or someone who sees you coming and avoids conversation because of their preconceived notions about Catholicism?

It’s like in the Good Samaritan story. We know who did the Lord’s work, without respect to the label. So the label in and of itself is of no value unless there are actions to tell the story. If we only talk to people who want to hear about Catholicism, then we really aren’t doing much work as fishers of men.
14
6 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him?
15
If a brother or sister has nothing to wear and has no food for the day,
16
and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, keep warm, and eat well,” but you do not give them the necessities of the body, what good is it?
17
So also faith of itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18
Indeed someone might say, “You have faith and I have works.” Demonstrate your faith to me without works, and I will demonstrate my faith to you from my works.
19
You believe that God is one. You do well. Even the demons believe that and tremble.
20
Do you want proof, you ignoramus, that faith without works is useless?
21
Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar?
22
You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by the works.
23
Thus the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,” and he was called “the friend of God.”
24
See how a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.
Tell me you are Catholic, and I will ask you to show me by what you do, whether I should consider that a Good Thing. Show me a Good Thing and I will be curious as to what religion you might belong to. I’m more likely to hear the answer to a question I didn’t ask, then one someone else thinks I should be asking.

Alan
 
Dear LordLove7 11 11,
Code:
 I like your posts very much.  This should be our goal to live our life in a manner such that all our actions, thoughts, words, and deeds  are worthy to be offered as prayers giving true honor to God.   Prayer should be our first response and we should never doubt the power of prayer.    Your goal  of  living a holy life  should be all of our goals.

In regards to your co-worker, Certainly Alan's story about the terrible injustices he received should be taken seriously.   The old, the sick,  the poor, the helpless and the unborn  are  being trampled on like never before in the history of Man. HR used to be called  Personal.  Now people are not persons they are resources.  The world is busy making corporations live while letting people die.   This is a consequence of modernism. It denies that each person is made in the Image of  God.
So far other than being a small nuisance or disturbance of sorts this poor woman doesn’t appear to be any sort of threat to anyone. We have to be charitable and accept that some people are different. She may be suffering from some terrible trauma. She is working and trying to make a living, despite this. People are laughing at her. They are the ones with the problem.
Code:
 I  suggest praying a Rosary dedicated for her and all the other troubled people in the world.
BP
 
Tell that to a Vietnam War critic.

Really? Did Jesus meddle in other people’s lives? Did Mary go snooping about other people’s cubicles? Even priests, who hear your confession, are pretty much obliged to act as if they did not hear the sins confessed. Does the Pope have me arrested for mortal sins? That’s enough to tell anyone how much freedom there is in such “middle men”.

So anything goes so long as it is justified by religion? I guess all those 300 years my country suffered under Spanish imperialism was justified so long as Catholicism was introduced to save the souls of my ancestors yes? What about those mental patients in ancient times who suffered abuse because superstitious nuts thought them possessed? Look at the Salem Witch trials. Look at the witch hunts. Catholics may have committed less than our Protestant brethren but they killed people in the name of exorcism nonetheless.

You are justifying yourself as some kind of saintly hero who thinks our religion gives you the right to take things into your own hands. Hence, your insistence is hardly off topic. As a matter of fact, it is the root of the problem here.

Rather prideful of you then to assume I am the one not following Church teaching when I’ve studied enough about exorcism to say you, who are not even a priest, are in direct violation with proper procedures regarding allegedly “possessed” persons.

According to a book I have here written by the head of the Exorcism office of the Manila Archdiocese, affected parties should first of all consult a priest. Seeing as how I very much doubt your co-worker would even accept your invitation, the best you can do is stay out of it. Forcing your religion upon others will only marginalize the people you are reaching out to.

Use your head please.
Your responses are confusing to say the least, and again, are not in line with the Church for the most part. I never said anything about performing and exorcism, nor would one in the sense you’re speaking of be required. My co-worker is likely “oppressed,” not possessed. A lay person can never perform an exorcism, but we are allowed to and encouraged to pray ‘exorcism prayers’ for deliverance. We are the Priesthood of the Faithful, taking on roles just as important as the ordained concerning the mission of the Church. Members of the same Body, but carrying out different functions.

By the way, if you continue to reply with a condescending tone, using phrases like “use your head,” I will no longer answer your posts. It is unnecessary and invalid coming from someone who is advising based on opinion (a worldly one at that) rather than Church doctrine.
 
Dear LordLove7 11 11,
Code:
 I like your posts very much.  This should be our goal to live our life in a manner such that all our actions, thoughts, words, and deeds  are worthy to be offered as prayers giving true honor to God.   Prayer should be our first response and we should never doubt the power of prayer.    Your goal  of  living a holy life  should be all of our goals.

In regards to your co-worker, Certainly Alan's story about the terrible injustices he received should be taken seriously.   The old, the sick,  the poor, the helpless and the unborn  are  being trampled on like never before in the history of Man. HR used to be called  Personal.  Now people are not persons they are resources.  The world is busy making corporations live while letting people die.   This is a consequence of modernism. It denies that each person is made in the Image of  God.
So far other than being a small nuisance or disturbance of sorts this poor woman doesn’t appear to be any sort of threat to anyone. We have to be charitable and accept that some people are different. She may be suffering from some terrible trauma. She is working and trying to make a living, despite this. People are laughing at her. They are the ones with the problem.
Code:
 I  suggest praying a Rosary dedicated for her and all the other troubled people in the world.
BP
Thank you, kind Sir. I appreciate everyone who contributing to the topic.
 
A lay person can never perform an exorcism, but we are allowed to and encouraged to pray ‘exorcism prayers’ for deliverance.
You are still required to do standard procedure before taking any action. That requires a valid, psychological evaluation and that is something you have openly rejected on the grounds of it being “worldly opinion”.

Furthermore, I cannot understand why you fail to realize the hint. I don’t take kindly to condescending people who think their superior spirituality gives them grounds to question other Catholics faithfulness to Church teaching. Prior to this post and the previous one, I have only stuck to criticizing your rationale. I did not put your adherence to Church teaching to the test. If you don’t wish to be offended then don’t offend others either.
 
Thanks for all the advice, but honestly, it seems none of you are aware of evil in the world (excluding the first replier).

Nothing is “just” a mental illness. Every problem, pathology or not, stems from either good or evil. Yes, treating people like my co-worker with medication makes the voices go away because it changes the brain chemistry, thus making it less receptive to the spiritual. The problem with that is, the medication makes one less receptive to messages from God as well.

I was looking for advice from Catholics who are more in tune with the spiritual realm, and less concerned with “reporting it to a supervisor.” Nothing is secular in God’s eyes, no matter how today’s society wants us to view things. However, I received some great advice from the webmaster over at CatholicWarrior, thanks to the first poster who replied.

God bless, and thanks for any more feedback.
i totally agree with you. maybe try giving her some blessed holy water i heard a priest talking about how thats the best way to tell if someone has demonic influence that they refuse to drink it or it tastes bad to them. listen to what this priest talks about he is an exorcist priest and has great talks about what everyone is so quick to call mental illness.

sensustraditionis.org/multimedia.html

its all under the spiritual warfare section
 
i totally agree with you. maybe try giving her some blessed holy water i heard a priest talking about how thats the best way to tell if someone has demonic influence that they refuse to drink it …
Not to derail the thread, but I personally would not drink holy water. Until I did a search here at CAF after reading the suggestion in this thread (and found the thread below), I didn’t know anybody drank holy water because I’ve never heard of doing that before and I find the idea a bit odd.

Now, back to your regularly scheduled thread. 🙂

drinking holy water
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=416030
 
Not to derail the thread, but I personally would not drink holy water. Until I did a search here at CAF after reading the suggestion in this thread (and found the thread below), I didn’t know anybody drank holy water because I’ve never heard of doing that before and I find the idea a bit odd.

Now, back to your regularly scheduled thread. 🙂

drinking holy water
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=416030
Well, you are of course entitled to your own feelings about it =)
I have never heard anyone discouraging drinking holy water, especially if it is blessed in the old rite of exorcism by a priest. My personal opinion I don’t see the difference between drinking holy water or drinking wine consecrated into the blood of Christ from the chalice =) Neither is odd to me, they are both sacraments.
 
Well, you are of course entitled to your own feelings about it =)
I have never heard anyone discouraging drinking holy water, especially if it is blessed in the old rite of exorcism by a priest. My personal opinion I don’t see the difference between drinking holy water or drinking wine consecrated into the blood of Christ from the chalice =) Neither is odd to me, they are both sacraments.
Please know I ask only out of concern but… shouldn’t you make sure the water’s clean? I’m told that water, holy or not, stored for ages in a container tends to become less qualified for consumption. :B
 
Please know I ask only out of concern but… shouldn’t you make sure the water’s clean? I’m told that water, holy or not, stored for ages in a container tends to become less qualified for consumption. :B
Yea I don’t know lol, I would probably want fresh holy water myself, but I am sure there are people who may consume old holy water and I bet never got sick! Kind of like how I wonder why we never heard any cases of people getting deathly ill from drinking from the Chalice at mass…all those germs out there like swine flu and stuff.
 
Yea I don’t know lol, I would probably want fresh holy water (personal opinion) ha
I think it’s best to stick to having it sprinkled. 😛
It’s only sanitary. Even priests know the importance of keeping stuff clean for consumption.
 
I think it supposedly works best if you don’t tell the person that the water is Holy Water.

Alan
 
You are still required to do standard procedure before taking any action. That requires a valid, psychological evaluation and that is something you have openly rejected on the grounds of it being “worldly opinion”.
Jesus Christ gave the power to expel demons to all who believe in Him and act in His name. We can do this through deliverance prayers. I am not aware of any prerequisites for psychological evaluations.
 
Jesus Christ gave the power to expel demons to all who believe in Him and act in His name. We can do this through deliverance prayers. I am not aware of any prerequisites for psychological evaluations.
True but there are some prayers that only a priest can say over a person because only a priest has the authority to exorcise demons from people. I am not sure what prayers they are, I know for a fact though that with certain deliverence prayers only a priest is allowed to say them over a person. This is true in cases of demonic obsession, posession, oppression…we can pray certain prayers for people suffering from this, but others only a priest can say and I am not sure why, I think because only they have the authority to exorcise certain types of demonic problems people have, maybe it has to do with the severity of the influence the demons have over a certain person?
 
Lovelord:You like this person a lot and you want to help.My advise:convince her to go with you to your local health care center.Tell them your problem and they will let you see a good mental health professional or psychiatrist.Best of luck.
 
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