Cohabitation and family visits

[PatriceA]

I’m here looking for some official document on Catholic moral teaching and the explanation for if/why/what an obedient Catholic should do in this instance.

Maybe I picked the wrong forum. I thought I would get Catholic answers as in answers based in Catholic teaching from people who practice and follow all parts of Catholicism. Am I in the wrong place?

This link might help. Even though it is addressing engaged couples living together, it does talk about how cohabitation causes scandal for ALL family members and that’s one reason why you should stay in a hotel and not with your family. You shouldn’t expose your children to a scandalous situation.

catholicnewsagency.com/resource.php?n=407

 

[deSalingAway]

This link might help. Even though it is addressing engaged couples living together, it does talk about how cohabitation causes scandal for ALL family members and that’s one reason why you should stay in a hotel and not with your family. You shouldn’t expose your children to a scandalous situation.

catholicnewsagency.com/resource.php?n=407

Thank you, PatriceA, for your reply. This addresses exactly what I expressed as my chief concern all along.

“A cohabiting couple implicitly communicates that there is nothing wrong breaking God’s law. This can be especially misleading to young children - nieces, nephews, and children of
friends - who are impressionable and whose moral reasoning is immature.”

 

[PennyinCanada]

Thank you, PatriceA, for your reply. This addresses exactly what I expressed as my chief concern all along.

“A cohabiting couple implicitly communicates that there is nothing wrong breaking God’s law. This can be especially misleading to young children - nieces, nephews, and children of
friends - who are impressionable and whose moral reasoning is immature.”

Well you got the answer you wanted. Good.
By going to a hotel, you are keeping the information of cohabiting from your children. Good. However, there’s no hiding the belly of a pregnant woman who isn’t married, or the fact later on that they have a baby. I don’t think your course of action has been thought through far enough into the future.

If I may read between the lines a bit. You are making your wife happy by visiting your inlaws but are annoyed at their living arrangement. For that internal struggle, personally I would speak to a wise priest and gain some heavenly counsel from someone outside this situation. Someone who can wisely probe your heart and see if there’s tweeking to be done. We all need that counsel on occasion with in-laws.

We don’t know how old your children are or what their capabilities are, but at some point they will be old enough to understand that sin is real, it has its consequences, and it spills over to everybody. Sin affects generations, and so to, living according to the wisdom of God and the Church brings blessings for generations. You know too that people who did not have the advantage of growing up in a Catholic home will make some awful choices, yet even in their sin, they can meet God and change their life so completely that they inspire awe in their friends and neighbors. Church history is full of such people, sinners who became saints. People who don’t know Christ won’t be attracted by the law and the rules but by the love and joy of those in the Church. As a caution, knowing that I am under the same scrutiny, be sure your love and joy are a witness to Christ’s love and do not give the ‘sinners’ reason to not come into the Church. They may not remember a thing you say but they will remember how you treated them. Be sure you aren’t a scandal to them when you visit as a guest but meek and mild as our Saviour, who came to us as a baby and not a ruler and King with an army.

This is only a caution, I have no idea how you are when you visit or anything about you. If I am way off base, I ask your forgiveness. Maybe I wrote something to benefit someone else and it’s not meant for you. God bless as you seek to do what’s best for your family. It is a minefield to navigate out there.

 

[deSalingAway]

Thank you, Penny, for your kind response. You are right in that my response should not cause scandal as well. I will also certainly seek the advice of a holy priest.

Thank you again and God bless you.

 

[Mayita30]

Witout a doubt DO NOT expose your children to thos environment. If you do this your kids will see that you can tolerate this behavior among family members and when they reached that age they wouldnt mind doing the same cuz u seem to accept it

 

[poker10]

Witout a doubt DO NOT expose your children to thos environment. If you do this your kids will see that you can tolerate this behavior among family members and when they reached that age they wouldnt mind doing the same cuz u seem to accept it

I guess that means you don’t even want them to visit at all since the situation would be obvious even if they didn’t stay overnight.

 

[Mum5]

Hello, this is my first post here, so please be gentle with me!
This post has me confused. To the OP, if I understand correctly, you don’t want to stay with your in laws because they are living together, fair enough, your choice, but, not knowing the ages of your children, will they even understand that Aunty and Uncle are living together, unmarried ? Will they care? I think not, so can’t see how, unless everyone starts arguing and pointing fingers they will take the slighest bit of notice.
So, ok, you stay somewhere else, then, you will go to your in laws home during the day, for meals etc, the children are going to see these people, what is the difference?

 

[MamaJewel]

As a convert to the Faith who is also a mom of 8, I would not stay with my IL’s if I were in your situation. My family of origin has some very loose morals. Over the years, I thought it would be ok if I practiced my beliefs, yet still exposed my children to these other worldly lifestyles because these people were “family”. I was absolutely wrong!!!

One of my older children has taken up cohabitation, saying it’s what works for (him/her) personally. Told me that this is what people do, even Christians.

My sincerest, most humble advice to you is have grandma and grandpa come visit you. Because what Mayita said is spot-on. There’s a mighty good chance that exposing your children to such a lifestyle will send them the message that you condone it. My young adult child told me that very same thing. If it was so wrong, then we had needed to stay away from the family members doing it.

This sounds hard and judgemental, but it isn’t. I think it might be a perfect example of “being in the world, but not being a part of it.”

You have to protect your children. It is your God given responsibility.

As a middle aged adult, who went through this chaos with her own family, I have to say that if grandma and grandpa can afford the physical and mental energy to house an adult child and his pregnant partner, they certainly can make the time and effort to go see their other small grandchildren out of town. I say this from experience as a daughter who would load up a van full of kids to go see her parents (and the crazy, unhealthy lifestyles of family members who were enmeshed with them) . The wise choice would have been for my parents to come to us. It’s how I prefer it now, yet my healthy parent doesn’t come over to see me or my kids and it isn’t because of my other sick parent.

If your IL’s care about your children and genuinely want to foster a relationship with them, and their daughter as well, then they need to come to you. (After all, you are the ones with the small children who shouldn’t have to experience a disruption in schedules every two months to visit grandparents.)

I pray that you and your wife can reach an agreement on this issue. It seems like she might be facing some familial challenges in the future. I pray that she comes to know that she can remain strong in her Faith, practice her beliefs and do what’s best for her children at the same time. Prayers of peace, wisdom, and conversion (IL’s) for you and your family

 

[LuxAeterna]

Unless you raise your children in a basement with no internet and no television and no friends and no movies except those intended for toddlers they are going to encounter the culture at large. I’m not a parent, but it seems to me the solution is to innoculate your children from the poisons of the world, not make them live in a bubble their whole lives so they are never exposed to an offensive particle.

I don’t know how you ought to work that out in practice, but what you suggest seems to me to be too rigidly-minded. I would think that you should take this as an opportunity not only to teach your children the right and wrong of the situation, but also to teach them by example how to imitate Christ by loving the sinner despite the sin.

Also, remember the parable of the wheat and the weeds. The Church will always be a mixed bag on this earth to the end of time. Some may be called to the monastic life, but you were not. You were called to raise a family in the midst of a world that is not always going to agree with every jot of Catholic teaching.

And if none of us who attempted to follow the Church ever mixed with those who did not, we would all die out pretty quickly and the Church would vanish because we would never be able to evangelize or convert the sinners in need of our example and love.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

As a convert to the Faith who is also a mom of 8, I would not stay with my IL’s if I were in your situation. My family of origin has some very loose morals. Over the years, I thought it would be ok if I practiced my beliefs, yet still exposed my children to these other worldly lifestyles because these people were “family”. I was absolutely wrong!!!

One of my older children has taken up cohabitation, saying it’s what works for (him/her) personally. Told me that this is what people do, even Christians.

My sincerest, most humble advice to you is have grandma and grandpa come visit you. Because what Mayita said is spot-on. There’s a mighty good chance that exposing your children to such a lifestyle will send them the message that you condone it. My young adult child told me that very same thing. If it was so wrong, then we had needed to stay away from the family members doing it.

This sounds hard and judgemental, but it isn’t. I think it might be a perfect example of “being in the world, but not being a part of it.”

You have to protect your children. It is your God given responsibility.

As a middle aged adult, who went through this chaos with her own family, I have to say that if grandma and grandpa can afford the physical and mental energy to house an adult child and his pregnant partner, they certainly can make the time and effort to go see their other small grandchildren out of town. I say this from experience as a daughter who would load up a van full of kids to go see her parents (and the crazy, unhealthy lifestyles of family members who were enmeshed with them) . The wise choice would have been for my parents to come to us. It’s how I prefer it now, yet my healthy parent doesn’t come over to see me or my kids and it isn’t because of my other sick parent.

If your IL’s care about your children and genuinely want to foster a relationship with them, and their daughter as well, then they need to come to you. (After all, you are the ones with the small children who shouldn’t have to experience a disruption in schedules every two months to visit grandparents.)

I pray that you and your wife can reach an agreement on this issue. It seems like she might be facing some familial challenges in the future. I pray that she comes to know that she can remain strong in her Faith, practice her beliefs and do what’s best for her children at the same time. Prayers of peace, wisdom, and conversion (IL’s) for you and your family

I agree. You’d be surprised what kids can pick up on, from being around other family members who have a different belief system. Sometimes, it’s enough to totally undermine your authority as a parent. And it does get into the children, little bit by little bit, even if they aren’t old enough to articulate anything.

Yes, have Gramps and Granny come to visit you. DO NOT go there and spend time with them in this set of circumstances.

 

[DhuAlQarnayn]

Some people seem to be saying you should shun the cohabiting couple entirely – insisting on having the grandparents come to you, not even agreeing to go to the same city where the sin is taking place and staying in a hotel. I cannot stress enough how absolutely contrary to Catholic teaching this advice is. Ultimately, whatever arrangements you decide are best for your family are perfectly all right with the church, but you must not cause strife and discord within your family because some members are not living fully Catholic lifestyles. Catholics do not shun their relatives. There is a difference between shielding your children from sin and refusing to break bread with sinners – especially your own relatives.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

Some people seem to be saying you should shun the cohabiting couple entirely – insisting on having the grandparents come to you, not even agreeing to go to the same city where the sin is taking place and staying in a hotel. I cannot stress enough how absolutely contrary to Catholic teaching this advice is. Ultimately, whatever arrangements you decide are best for your family are perfectly all right with the church, but you must not cause strife and discord within your family because some members are not living fully Catholic lifestyles. Catholics do not shun their relatives. There is a difference between shielding your children from sin and refusing to break bread with sinners – especially your own relatives.

Just think of how many broken families there would be in today’s society when so many people cohabitate if everyone who was against it shunned cohabiting couples.

 

[PatriceA]

Unless you raise your children in a basement with no internet and no television and no friends and no movies except those intended for toddlers they are going to encounter the culture at large. I’m not a parent, but it seems to me the solution is to innoculate your children from the poisons of the world, not make them live in a bubble their whole lives so they are never exposed to an offensive particle.

I don’t know how you ought to work that out in practice, but what you suggest seems to me to be too rigidly-minded. I would think that you should take this as an opportunity not only to teach your children the right and wrong of the situation, but also to teach them by example how to imitate Christ by loving the sinner despite the sin.

Also, remember the parable of the wheat and the weeds. The Church will always be a mixed bag on this earth to the end of time. Some may be called to the monastic life, but you were not. You were called to raise a family in the midst of a world that is not always going to agree with every jot of Catholic teaching.

And if none of us who attempted to follow the Church ever mixed with those who did not, we would all die out pretty quickly and the Church would vanish because we would never be able to evangelize or convert the sinners in need of our example and love.

The OP isn’t asking for advice to avoid the family altogether. Just to avoid a scandalous situation, which we are called to do as Catholics according to the teachings of our faith. Visiting with the family is not the issue, staying in the house and trying to explain to one’s children that two individuals are practicing cohabitation and premarital sex are the issues. We parents have the responsibility to preserve our children’s innocence as much is appropriate for their given ages. There will be a time and a much different place for the OP to teach his children about this particular sinful situation. The OP’s children may not be at the appropriate age yet where that lesson needs to be taught and its the responsibility of the OP to not expose them to the situation until they are mature enough to understand the implications of what is really going on in the household.

Also, people that are not yet parents, can not fully understand how impressionable young children truly are. You do not realize how much children, even toddlers, pick up on things said, things seen, and things heard. If a sinful situation can be avoided to protect the child until they are of an appropriate age to understand the consequences of the sin being committed, then that’s what should happen, its the parent’s job to not expose their children to any unecessary sinful situations. Period.

 

[Demetra2]

Cohabitation is very wrong and I applaud you for protecting your children! Not enough people do this anymore. Even very young children will be effected by the cohabitation at your inlaw’s home and it will make an impression. Yes, they will hear about other families making this mistake but there is nothing you can do for those families. It’s insulting your intelligence for other posters to accuse you of keeping your kids in a bubble. There is no way to keep kids in a bubble anymore even if we wanted too(and sometimes that would be a relief!). Another poster made the suggestion of having your in-laws visit you and that is a great idea. At the very least, get a hotel room if you do visit. And of course be kind and set a good example for your brother-in-law and his girlfriend. This situation may not last for very long anyway as the cohabitating couple may decide to marry or move out after the baby is born. But I do want to thank you for caring so much about your kids and setting a good example to everyone in your family. Good for you!

 

[PatriceA]

Just think of how many broken families there would be in today’s society when so many people cohabitate if everyone who was against it shunned cohabiting couples.

The OP didn’t say anything about shunning anyone. Just wanting to do what is in the best interest of his children, just as any good Catholic parent wants to do and seeks advice from other Catholic parents.

 

[bonvivantHermit]

I think many who are posting warning against “shunning” are cognizant of the implicit message not sleeping under the same roof as sinners sends. I have children, I consider their
souls, but do not avoid every occasion they may see someone who is obviously not living a Christian lifestyle,befriending gay neighbors for example.

To me the greater good is being a (hopefully) good example of a Catholic family. I also realize this couple is choosing to live in sin (but very well not realize the mortal sin etc.) and
that parents can choose to shield their children. I understand that and may have made the same choice as OP. BUT I would do so in a manner to not let the couple know why we weren’t there if at all possible.

To me, given they are bringing a new life into the world, they are
already heading in the right direction, attempting to make a bad situation- better. I’d bring the
pregnant mom a gift and use the blessed event as example of God’s grace and mercy.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Some people seem to be saying you should shun the cohabiting couple entirely – insisting on having the grandparents come to you, not even agreeing to go to the same city where the sin is taking place and staying in a hotel. I cannot stress enough how absolutely contrary to Catholic teaching this advice is. Ultimately, whatever arrangements you decide are best for your family are perfectly all right with the church, but you must not cause strife and discord within your family because some members are not living fully Catholic lifestyles. Catholics do not shun their relatives. There is a difference between shielding your children from sin and refusing to break bread with sinners – especially your own relatives.

There is a HUGE difference between shunning and not taking your children to see a couple who is fornicating and shacking up without marrying. You can still be polite, nice, send cards, gifts etc. without exposing your children to such. The children are innocent and don’t need to be indoctrinated into the ills of society before they can filter anything out.

 

[DhuAlQarnayn]

There is a HUGE difference between shunning and not taking your children to see a couple who is fornicating and shacking up without marrying. You can still be polite, nice, send cards, gifts etc. without exposing your children to such. The children are innocent and don’t need to be indoctrinated into the ills of society before they can filter anything out.

I don’t see much difference. It doesn’t matter if you keep them on your Christmas card list or not. Advice was given that the original poster should not even travel to the same city as this couple, in order to avoid them entirely. Refusing to socialize with members of your own family who are not living up to all of the church’s teachings is highly inappropriate, even if it is ostensibly for the benefit of your children. This is not something Catholics do. It is highly disturbing that posters on here would seriously suggest refusing to share a meal with these people. This is not Jehovah’s Witness Answers.

 

[Luna_Lovecraft]

I don’t see much difference. It doesn’t matter if you keep them on your Christmas card list or not. Advice was given that the original poster should not even travel to the same city as this couple, in order to avoid them entirely. Refusing to socialize with members of your own family who are not living up to all of the church’s teachings is highly inappropriate, even if it is ostensibly for the benefit of your children. This is not something Catholics do. It is highly disturbing that posters on here would seriously suggest refusing to share a meal with these people. This is not Jehovah’s Witness Answers.

I agree. But I think if this were JW Answers you’d find a lot more compassion and love.

Luna

 

[BlueEyedLady]

I don’t see much difference. It doesn’t matter if you keep them on your Christmas card list or not. Advice was given that the original poster should not even travel to the same city as this couple, in order to avoid them entirely. Refusing to socialize with members of your own family who are not living up to all of the church’s teachings is highly inappropriate, even if it is ostensibly for the benefit of your children. This is not something Catholics do. It is highly disturbing that posters on here would seriously suggest refusing to share a meal with these people. This is not Jehovah’s Witness Answers.