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AnnaRose
Guest
We’ve been married 46 years and know a little about it. If “having a big wedding” is the most important part of getting married, then I think you both better talk about the REAL meaning of marriage. 
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joandarc2008
Guest
Engagement = Ring + Date
That means if one cannot make the committment to get/wear a ring or plan/pick a date one is not really making the promise of marriage. If one is not really making the promise of marriage than one is not really ready to consider themselves engaged. Nor is one ready to make the promise of marriage IMHO.
Therefore, stepback - what I hear is that you are acquainting marriage with spending more time/having sex with your girlfriend. I am here to tell you, that there is more to life than sex. If it is about spending time - you can try to spend more time in settings that do not promote an occasion to sin or scandal.
Oh by the way - so I am not a hypocrite- my dh and I did cohabitate- we realized we were wrong and we lived celibate for a few months before the marriage and it was difficult.
It was well worth it in the end though. It would have been much easier and better for both of us though to have been in the situation that you are in now and done it right.God bless,
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GodIsGracious
Guest
Having had this question myself MANY times, and it is not in connection with cohabitation and not having sex or anything like that, mostly due to, “I do the right thing at work and what do I get? I get laid off!” or, “Look at these bankers who thieve, they have their lifestyle and I live right and have what? A bankruptcy, trouble paying bills, medical issues that I can barely pay…” etc. etc. etc.
It’s easy to look at the surface of things, see the material “good” that others have, and when you look around you you supposedly have nothing, and then to feel frustrated over it.
Keep in mind that they have their reward in the here and now. The “WHAT” you get is far greater than any material possession or experience you may have.
It was a VERY VERY VERY long road for me to get here to this point in my spiritual journey. But I know that whatever we have here and now is our material reward, but when you play by spiritual rules, your reward is greater. It is the Reality, the Truth. Not what’s here on earth.
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Liberanosamalo
Guest
“I play by the rules and get WHAT?”
You become more virtuous and grow closer to God.
If that isn’t enough for you, you lack the maturity to get married. Because if you go into things only for what you can get out of it, you’re doomed to a miserable marriage.
Can we reverse your question to a statement?
“I don’t play by the rules so I get a piece of…”
Nice, huh? So respectful of the woman you love? Would that be your attitude? So what if your cousins and all your neighbors and siblings and everyone else in your world is fornicating. That shouldn’t matter to you. Will you take that attitude into marriage? “I play by the rules and stay faithful to my wife, but she’s pregnant/nursing/sick/post-partum and I can’t have relations with her, and all my co-workers who are cheating are having a great time. I play by the rules and I get what?”
Doesn’t sound so nice, does it.
What you HAVE gotten by playing by the rules is a chance to see your relationship objectively, hopefully not clouded by sexual relations. And you have seen 5 years of someone who has many things to do but become your wife. And for whatever unnamed reasons you have now, there is still no wedding.
The sad little secret about co-habiting is it prolongs bad relationships that should have ended long ago, but then end up involving children. It’s much easier to hand back a ring than to pack boxes and move out in a mini pseudo divorce. And co-habitators end up divorcing more often than those who did not.
You’ve learned as much about her as you would if you lived with her. You both need to make a serious decision now. Love is patient. You sound like you’ve run out of patience. Or love. Or both.
You become more virtuous and grow closer to God.
If that isn’t enough for you, you lack the maturity to get married. Because if you go into things only for what you can get out of it, you’re doomed to a miserable marriage.
Can we reverse your question to a statement?
“I don’t play by the rules so I get a piece of…”
Nice, huh? So respectful of the woman you love? Would that be your attitude? So what if your cousins and all your neighbors and siblings and everyone else in your world is fornicating. That shouldn’t matter to you. Will you take that attitude into marriage? “I play by the rules and stay faithful to my wife, but she’s pregnant/nursing/sick/post-partum and I can’t have relations with her, and all my co-workers who are cheating are having a great time. I play by the rules and I get what?”
Doesn’t sound so nice, does it.
What you HAVE gotten by playing by the rules is a chance to see your relationship objectively, hopefully not clouded by sexual relations. And you have seen 5 years of someone who has many things to do but become your wife. And for whatever unnamed reasons you have now, there is still no wedding.
The sad little secret about co-habiting is it prolongs bad relationships that should have ended long ago, but then end up involving children. It’s much easier to hand back a ring than to pack boxes and move out in a mini pseudo divorce. And co-habitators end up divorcing more often than those who did not.
You’ve learned as much about her as you would if you lived with her. You both need to make a serious decision now. Love is patient. You sound like you’ve run out of patience. Or love. Or both.
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Katie1723
Guest
What about older couples who live together without benefit of marriage…i.e. they live as brother and sister so they don’t lose social security or other benefits? Just asking
Kathy
Kathy
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ac_claire
Guest
Not a bad question, but I think that’s an entirely different kind of situation.
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Truly_Beloved
Guest
It’s still scandal.
CAF Apologist’s Explanation of Scandal
How cohabitation is Scandal, even if sex isn’t involved
The age of the people involved doesn’t make it more or less sinful.
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catholic79
Guest
I just wanted to agree. The two of you need to talk.We’ve been married 46 years and know a little about it. If “having a big wedding” is the most important part of getting married, then I think you both better talk about the REAL meaning of marriage.
Just my :twocents:
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zaramarie81
Guest
Hmm, it sounds like the wedding is being treated as more important than the marriage here - never a good thing.Hello, everyone. I just need some support in my life and hope to get it here.
I live alone and I’ve been engaged for 5 years, no joke! She lives with her parents all that time.
Every time we try to get married something comes up! “She needs to finish school! She needs a job! We’re broke! My brother needs surgery!” Something always comes up! She loves me no doubt, she’d marry me tomorrow if she had to, but she wants that BIG wedding!
She and I are young, okay I understand the wait to a degree. I am just so lonely!
I get so upset at my cousins for having live in girlfriends! They live together and even have kids out of wedlock! One cousin even lives at home with his parents AND his girlfriend! I play by the rules and get WHAT? I understand I’m doing the right thing but sometimes I get so angry at my fiancee for being such a “good girl”! She’s 24, I’m 28. She just wont live with me until we marry. Her parents are strict Catholics. It’s not fair!:crying:
Marriage right now is not going to happen for personal reasons, I wont explain…
I am just tired of the situation. Why is cohabitation such a bad thing? My cousins get along fine with their girlfriends. My family actually thinks I AM crazy for waiting until marriage!
I love her and I will wait for as long as it takes, but doing the right thing is very heartbreaking…
God bless…
As others have pointed out, the issue here isn’t cohabitation or what’s 'fair." You and your fiancee, two fully grown adults, have made choices… choices to delay. No one else can take responsibility for those choices - not your cousins who live with their girlfriends, not her parents, etc. You are “of age!” Now, some of the reasons you’ve chosen to delay may be legitimate as we don’t have all the details. But… in regards to finding a job or sick relatives… here’s the deal. When you marry someone you are vowing to “do life” together. There will always be issues… but you will be addressing them together with the graces of the marriage vocation. (graces which are not present when you’re “shacking up.”) It sounds like it’s time to either decide to tackle all the issues of life* together in marriage *or acknowledge that you’re living separate lives and go your separate ways.I hope this doesn’t come off as harsh… it’s just… the problem here really isn’t the Church’s teachings on cohabitation. I wish you two the best!
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adelore
Guest
Hello, everyone. I just need some support in my life and hope to get it here.
I live alone and I’ve been engaged for 5 years, no joke! She lives with her parents all that time.
Every time we try to get married something comes up! “She needs to finish school! She needs a job! We’re broke! My brother needs surgery!” Something always comes up! She loves me no doubt, she’d marry me tomorrow if she had to, but she wants that BIG wedding!
She and I are young, okay I understand the wait to a degree. I am just so lonely!
I get so upset at my cousins for having live in girlfriends! They live together and even have kids out of wedlock! One cousin even lives at home with his parents AND his girlfriend! I play by the rules and get WHAT? I understand I’m doing the right thing but sometimes I get so angry at my fiancee for being such a “good girl”! She’s 24, I’m 28. She just wont live with me until we marry. Her parents are strict Catholics. It’s not fair!:crying:
Marriage right now is not going to happen for personal reasons, I wont explain…
I am just tired of the situation. Why is cohabitation such a bad thing? My cousins get along fine with their girlfriends. My family actually thinks I AM crazy for waiting until marriage!
I love her and I will wait for as long as it takes, but doing the right thing is very heartbreaking…
God bless…
- Five years of being engaged? Wow.
- Something always comes up? These are excuses!
- The Big Wedding, is unrealistic, if neither family can afford it. The Marriage Service/ how big or how small…is not what makes the Marriage. Is she in love with the idea of the Big Wedding or the Man she’s going to Marry?
- Living together. It’s a proven fact that most couples who live together before marriage end in divorce. (not to mention it’s a sin if there is sex before/outside of marriage.)
- Your cousins lives are not your life. Sin always looks easier…smiply as that.
- I understand I’m doing the right thing but sometimes I get so angry at my fiancee for being such a “good girl”! She’s 24, I’m 28. She just wont live with me until we marry. Her parents are strict Catholics. It’s not fair!:crying:
Take a deep breath and admire your girlfriend for Not living with you. Stop complaining about it and be proud of the fact that she was brought up a strict Catholic.
Over all my thoughts are this “marriage” is never going to happen. It sounds like neither one of you is ready for a life long Marriage. Otherwise, you’d be married by now.
Maybe the two of you need to sit down and really be honest with each other and why you Really are not married yet. Is being married and living a holy married life what is most important here or is a Marriage Service, with tons of whoopla that last for a litte more than an hour, (Catholic Mass Wedding) and of course the big reception afterwards more important?
I pray that God will open both of your eyes to what a Marriage is truely all about.
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zaramarie81
Guest
Uuuuh, even IF premarital sex was grave and not mortal, would it be pleasing to God for two people to engage in GRAVE SIN??? “Grave” is a term used for, well, the HEAVIEST of subject matters in the eyes of the Church (mortal and grave even come from the same family of words… both pointing to death… in this case, the death of our souls. Last I checked, death of a soul is as bad as it gets, no matter what word you use). Regardless, a practicing adult Catholic has little excuse here… the Church’s teachings on this matter are so well-known that even non-Catholics know this. When addressing a practicing Catholic entertaining thoughts about premarital sex, I think we should always assume they are in danger of mortal sin. And if it turns out they somehow had no clue, they need be clued in FAST.
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Deacon_Ed_B
Guest
This may come as a surprise to some of you, but grave sin and mortal sin are synonymous.
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noclevername
Guest
Just to let you know, most churches and religions see two nonmarried people living together and/or having sex is a sin. They may not use the same terminology as Catholics but they still see it as a sin. That’s now ‘nonCatholics’ know this.
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Podo2005
Guest
I think you have misunderstood me, I was in no way defending premarital sex. I was merely pointing out that grave sin does not necessarily mean mortal sin. Does that automatically make something morally right becuase it isnt mortal sin? NO
Mortal Sin is as you pointed out is death to the soul, a complete and willful turning away from Christ. An example of this would be a person who constantly engages in a grave sin(and is unrepentant) and then stops going to church because he finds it all just utterly meaningless and feels alienated from the church (due to his mortal sin). Take another situation, a Catholic has a weak moment and slips into pre marital sex. He then (right after) feels intense guilt because of his sin, goes to the sacrament of reconcilation and asks God for help so that he will not fall into this sin again ( there he has had a change of heart and has repented). He has commited a grave sin, but not a mortal one because he hasnt turned away from Christ ( This is assuming also in both situations that it is possible to know the heart of another person, which in real life is impossible and therefore right there proves that God is the only Judge)
Another note I understand your concern for the person’s soul and it is right for you (and
the duty of all Christians I must add) to proclaim the Good news and uphold the teaching of the Church in order to save all souls. But it would all prove useless if in order to “save” souls we distorted the truth in order to put fear into people’s hearts (I.e. Oh my , you’ve commited a Mortal sin (how do you know?) ! ) The Church teaches that in order for a sin to be Mortal 3 conditions must be met. Even if the condition for grave sin is met but for example the person does not know that it is wrong or perhaps does not do it 100% willingly, then although it is still a grave sin it is not a mortal sin.
Grave sin does not necessarily equal mortal sin.
I hope I’ve made my point, and I must stress that I AM NOT ENCOURAGING ANYBODY TO SIN. “Repent for the Kingdom of Heaven as at Hand” is the message of the Gospel. Turn your hearts away from sin and follow Christ.
Your brother in Christ
Zachary
P.S. I’ve read a good book on Reconciliation that has also stressed this point also entitled “Confession can Change Your Life” by David Knight
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Podo2005
Guest
They are closely linked but are not the same thing.
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Deacon_Ed_B
Guest
And what fallen angel told you this?
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Seatuck
Guest
Perhaps you could find the church teaching that explains your mystery third sin that no one has ever heard of?
Seriously , there are only two types of sin. Mortal and venial. The matter for sin can be grave but that does not mean it is a third level of sin. It is simple the same as mortal sin.
See the CCC section on sin.
vatican.va/archive/catechism/p3s1c1a8.htm
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elts1956
Guest
We don"t hear the term “mortal” anymore, so it isn’t surprising that some would look upon a “grave” sin as less than a “mortal” one. :bigyikes: And so, just as in politics, we have our liberals and conservatives.
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JimG
Guest
I’m surprised this even has to be pointed out.
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Deacon_Ed_B
Guest
Unfortunately it has to be pointed out because of the teaching of misguided souls. i.e., feel good, be true to your self, etc. They forget that moral truth is objective and unchangeable.
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