Cohabitation

[dannyseek]

The Catholic Church condems cohabitation out of hand. Proponents also dismiss decisions made through concience (i.e. in my inner self where i am alone with God). Yet I do cohabit and i do have a clear concience that remains open to new (name removed by moderator)uts and possible revision of my convictions.

The reasons why my concience is clear are too many to include in this post, yet I mention a few important ones:

1. The works of perfect Christian virtue spring from love and arrive at love
2. man was created to live with a woman and vice versa
3. i was fully committed to my first marriage
4. Adultery breaks the contact. This is an integral part of the teachings of the church and i remain surprised how it never features in matters of marriage failure and annulment
5. Jesus only speaks of adultery. Once the marriage is dead, i can not commit adultery because the marriage has been broken and does not exist.
6. Therefore, in the belief that my marriage has been broken by my wife, and that i am committed to a new relationship, that Jesus wants us to live a peaceful life, and the Church in my country does not carry out its duty (annulment takes away at least 10 years of my life) i have no other option than to confess my sin and start a new committed relationship.
7. This principle was accepted by the council of trent in allowing the Orthodox church to retain its practicies.
8. I do not believe i need to leave the church and join the Orthodox church because the rules of concience support my stance and i take full responsibility in front of God
9. No one has the right to condmn my concience. I have the obligation to keep it informed.

Any comments will be most welcome

 

[PatriceA]

The Catholic Church condems cohabitation out of hand. Proponents also dismiss decisions made through concience (i.e. in my inner self where i am alone with God). Yet I do cohabit and i do have a clear concience that remains open to new (name removed by moderator)uts and possible revision of my convictions.

The reasons why my concience is clear are too many to include in this post, yet I mention a few important ones:

1. The works of perfect Christian virtue spring from love and arrive at love
2. man was created to live with a woman and vice versa
3. i was fully committed to my first marriage
4. Adultery breaks the contact. This is an integral part of the teachings of the church and i remain surprised how it never features in matters of marriage failure and annulment
5. Jesus only speaks of adultery. Once the marriage is dead, i can not sin against adultery because the marriage has been broken
6. Therefore, in the belief that my marriage has been broken by my wife, and that i am committed to a new relationship, that Jesus wants us to live a peaceful life, and the Church in my country does not carry out its duty (annulment takes away at least 10 years of my life) i have no other option than to confess my sin and start a new committed relationship.
7. This principle was accepted by the council of trent in allowing the Orthodox church to retain its practicies.
8. I do not believe i need to leave the church and join the Orthodox church because the rules of concience support my stance and i take full responsibility in front of God
9. No one has the right to condmn my concience. I have the obligation to keep it informed.

Any comments will be most welcome

I would say you have done a very poor job then of keeping yourself informed about why co-habitating is wrong for both you and your significant other.

 

[Eufrosnia]

The Catholic Church condems cohabitation out of hand. Proponents also dismiss decisions made through concience (i.e. in my inner self where i am alone with God). Yet I do cohabit and i do have a clear concience that remains open to new (name removed by moderator)uts and possible revision of my convictions.

The reasons why my concience is clear are too many to include in this post, yet I mention a few important ones:

1. The works of perfect Christian virtue spring from love and arrive at love
2. man was created to live with a woman and vice versa
3. i was fully committed to my first marriage
4. Adultery breaks the contact. This is an integral part of the teachings of the church and i remain surprised how it never features in matters of marriage failure and annulment
5. Jesus only speaks of adultery. Once the marriage is dead, i can not commit adultery because the marriage has been broken and does not exist.
6. Therefore, in the belief that my marriage has been broken by my wife, and that i am committed to a new relationship, that Jesus wants us to live a peaceful life, and the Church in my country does not carry out its duty (annulment takes away at least 10 years of my life) i have no other option than to confess my sin and start a new committed relationship.
7. This principle was accepted by the council of trent in allowing the Orthodox church to retain its practicies.
8. I do not believe i need to leave the church and join the Orthodox church because the rules of concience support my stance and i take full responsibility in front of God
9. No one has the right to condmn my concience. I have the obligation to keep it informed.

Any comments will be most welcome

I think you are missing the essential teaching on conscience by the Catholic Church. There is such a thing as a malformed conscience. We know that a conscience is malformed when it is not consistent with the teachings of the church. So your case would be a classic example of a malformed conscience.

II. THE FORMATION OF CONSCIENCE

1783 Conscience must be informed and moral judgment enlightened. A well-formed conscience is upright and truthful. It formulates its judgments according to reason, in conformity with the true good willed by the wisdom of the Creator. The education of conscience is indispensable for human beings who are subjected to negative influences and tempted by sin to prefer their own judgment and to reject authoritative teachings.

1784 The education of the conscience is a lifelong task. From the earliest years, it awakens the child to the knowledge and practice of the interior law recognized by conscience. Prudent education teaches virtue; it prevents or cures fear, selfishness and pride, resentment arising from guilt, and feelings of complacency, born of human weakness and faults. The education of the conscience guarantees freedom and engenders peace of heart.

1785 In the formation of conscience the Word of God is the light for our path,54 we must assimilate it in faith and prayer and put it into practice. We must also examine our conscience before the Lord’s Cross. We are assisted by the gifts of the Holy Spirit, aided by the witness or advice of others and guided by the authoritative teaching of the Church.55

Also, you need to understand that conscience does not make complex propositional statements such as “cohabitation is ok”. For a more in-depth understanding on this matter, please read Cardinal John Newman’s work on conscience.

So when we say follow ones conscience, it usually means that faced with making an immediate choice between two acts, and one has to make a quick decision, one makes the decision that feels morally correct. The voice that speaks to you at the time of a such a sudden decision is your conscience.

But to say “cohabiting is moral” is a propositional statement about the nature of things. Such a thing is not possible for a conscience to do without you informing it as to what is right and wrong to begin with. That is why the conscience must first be formed correctly. One forms ones conscience by following the teachings of the Church.

To elaborate a bit more, when faced with a moral choice, you are to always try to do God’s will i.e. what is in accord with Divine law. Your conscience merely combs the knowledge you have (learnt as well as in your heart) to arrive at the best conclusion.

Statements such as “Cohabitation is moral” are already condemned under Divine law. No one also claims that they have a law written in their hearts that cohabitation is ok. If anything, the conclusion is a derived truth from things written in your heart. Now since it is possible that you are less aware of some other things written in your heart (complete natural law), you can make an erroneous conclusion.

So this is where the Church comes in. The church is the final authority on earth through which such truths are revealed to you. The Church has spoken on the matter of cohabitation. So even if we do not understand why and our reasoning suggest otherwise, we assent to her.

 

[Oneofthewomen]

I am confused about #6. How will annulment “take away 10 years of your life”.

That statement alone tells me you have a fundamental misunderstandning of what marriage is and is not.

As to everything else, sounds much more like relativism to me.
“It’s what I want, and God wants me to be happy, so I’m all good!”
Sorry, but that’s not how it works!

 

[Eufrosnia]

I am confused about #6. How will annulment “take away 10 years of your life”.

That statement alone tells me you have a fundamental misunderstandning of what marriage is and is not.

As to everything else, sounds much more like relativism to me.
“It’s what I want, and God wants me to be happy, so I’m all good!”
Sorry, but that’s not how it works!

I think he just has a confused view on how conscience works. He seems to think that the conscience is always right and that he has no moral responsibility to form it correctly. At that point itself, he has strayed from the truth.

 

[Least]

I say “be careful” and you have my prayers.

YET, if you feel that good about it, why seek affirmation here. If affirmation is needed why potentially lead others (on the fence) astray.

Balaam was given a talking donkey, let me be that here for you.

“Cut the Cr_p” you can’t damage today without wounding eternity.

If the other party to your 2 is worthy of oneness be one properly, if not, then being two is just each depriving the other of their other half to be 1.

 

[anruari]

Jesus does not permit divorce in the case of adultery. He says that if you divorce your spouse and they then may someone else that you are guilty of their adultery… unless the reason for the divorce wax the other parties prior adultery (ie you’re not guilty in retrospect for a single they were already comitting).

Also annullment cannot take account of post marital infidelity unless there is evidence that it was the result of an inability to commit to the wedding vows that pre existed their exchange (or a clear lack of intention b to observe them)

Annullment does not spate a married couple. It is a recognition that they were never validly married in the first place.

I.e I know a couple who have an ‘open marriage’ whether they tied the knot in a registery office or a church: as they clearly stated before the ceremony that they had no intention of being monogamous their ‘marriage’ never actually occurred in civil or Canon law. It is null and void and had all the validity of a couple of 8 year old playing marriage in the school play ground.

The fact that they spent enough on the party to put down a large on a house is irrelevant.

On the other hand: my wife and I have a sacramental marriage and allways intended it to be thus. If either of us became disaffected and had an adulterous affair that would not make or original wedding vows null and void. If the other party could not forgive and terminated the marriage contact. … We would remain sacramentaly married and neither of us would be free to re marry.

 

[His_helpmeet]

The Catholic Church condems cohabitation out of hand. Proponents also dismiss decisions made through concience (i.e. in my inner self where i am alone with God). Yet I do cohabit and i do have a clear concience that remains open to new (name removed by moderator)uts and possible revision of my convictions.

The reasons why my concience is clear are too many to include in this post, yet I mention a few important ones:

1. The works of perfect Christian virtue spring from love and arrive at love
   This is true
2. man was created to live with a woman and vice versa
   While this is true, not EVERY person is called to marriage. Nor can a person be called to marriage until he/she is fully able to understand the significance of marriage. Consequently, would it be wrong for a child to grow up without a “spouse”? What about without siblings if the parents were unable to have more children? The Church also recognizes 4 vocations: married life, single life, religious life, and consecrated life. Only one of these permits a person to live with a person of the opposite sex. While marriage is a wonderful vocation and is necessary in the Church, it is not the ONLY acceptable vocation. God calls some people to forsake the earthly marriage in favour of the heavenly marriage (e.g. priesthood, religious life, consecrated life) and He calls some people to do work that might not be possible if they were married (single life). These are not lesser or greater vocations than marriage; they are simply different. People called to these vocations are called to make sacrifices, as are married people. They are simply called to make DIFFERENT sacrifices.
3. i was fully committed to my first marriage
   This is good.
4. Adultery breaks the contact. This is an integral part of the teachings of the church and i remain surprised how it never features in matters of marriage failure and annulment
   Not true. The Church does not teach that adultery “breaks” the marital contract. It does not factor in matters of marriage “failure” UNLESS it can be proved that there was no intention to be faithful in the first place.
5. Jesus only speaks of adultery. Once the marriage is dead, i can not commit adultery because the marriage has been broken and does not exist.
   A valid marriage is valid for the rest of your life. The de facto statement of the Church is that every marriage is valid until proven otherwise. Only a natural marriage (i.e. a marriage that occurs between two non-baptized people or a baptized and a non-baptized person) can be dissolved, and then only in specific circumstances. While Jesus said it was permissible for a man to divorce his wife, He did not say that it was permissible to remarry - and He also pointed out WHY Moses gave them that law in the first place. The Church only recognizes the civil effects of civil divorce, not any spiritual effects.
6. Therefore, in the belief that my marriage has been broken by my wife, and that i am committed to a new relationship, that Jesus wants us to live a peaceful life, and the Church in my country does not carry out its duty (annulment takes away at least 10 years of my life) i have no other option than to confess my sin and start a new committed relationship.
   No, you have the option to live celibate, apart from a committed relationship. Some people are naturally called to single life. Furthermore, an annulment should not take 10 years. The Church’s goal is that the average nullity trial should be concluded within one year in the court of first instance, and six months in the court of second instance, though this is not a firm deadline. (My husband went through the formal nullity process with his first marriage. It was completed in about 2 years.)
7. This principle was accepted by the council of trent in allowing the Orthodox church to retain its practicies.
8. I do not believe i need to leave the church and join the Orthodox church because the rules of concience support my stance and i take full responsibility in front of GodWhich conscience? How did you form your conscience? Have you spoken to a priest about this?
9. No one has the right to condmn my concience. I have the obligation to keep it informed.

From your comments I gather that you do not really understand the nature of marriage and the nature of a declaration of nullity. A declaration of nullity does not directly affect a marriage. It is an official Church statement that a real marriage never existed in the eyes of God. It is a statement about the nature of the marriage, not a statement about something the Church has DONE TO the marriage. For a marriage to be declared null, there must have been something fundamentally missing from the marriage in the first place. This is why adultery is not normally a cause for a declaration of nullity, unless it can be proved that there was no intention to remain faithful. An intention not to be open to life, a lack of understanding of the nature of marriage, pre-existing abuse at the time of the wedding, coercion, previous bond, consanguinity, age requirements, etc. are reasons why a marriage would be declared null. These have to be pre-existing conditions that were present at the time of the wedding, which resulted in an inability to contract a marriage covenant. The Church does not MAKE the marriage invalid; it simply declares that there is sufficient evidence to prove that the marriage WAS invalid - similar to how a “guilty” verdict in a courtroom does not MAKE a person guilty of a crime; it means he was found to BE guilty of a crime.

Any comments will be most welcome

 

[Polycarp1]

Following Church teachings is optional of course. But then so is going to heaven! We have freewill and can choose what we want to do, however we don’t get to choose the consequences of those decisions.
People have the right to go to Hell if they want to and many are choosing to do so by how they live their lives. God does not want anyone to perish into the fires of hell but leaves it up to us. He put in place his plan of redemption for mankind but it is up to us to accept or reject it.
The time of Mercy is now while we are physically alive. Once we die then comes the time of Justice. (Let’s not have a bunch of wailing whining and sniveling once we get what we have spent our lives asking for!)

 

[John_of_Woking]

The Catholic Church condems cohabitation out of hand. Proponents also dismiss decisions made through concience (i.e. in my inner self where i am alone with God). Yet I do cohabit and i do have a clear concience that remains open to new (name removed by moderator)uts and possible revision of my convictions.

The reasons why my concience is clear are too many to include in this post, yet I mention a few important ones:

1. The works of perfect Christian virtue spring from love and arrive at love
2. man was created to live with a woman and vice versa
3. i was fully committed to my first marriage
4. Adultery breaks the contact. This is an integral part of the teachings of the church and i remain surprised how it never features in matters of marriage failure and annulment
5. Jesus only speaks of adultery. Once the marriage is dead, i can not commit adultery because the marriage has been broken and does not exist.
6. Therefore, in the belief that my marriage has been broken by my wife, and that i am committed to a new relationship, that Jesus wants us to live a peaceful life, and the Church in my country does not carry out its duty (annulment takes away at least 10 years of my life) i have no other option than to confess my sin and start a new committed relationship.
7. This principle was accepted by the council of trent in allowing the Orthodox church to retain its practicies.
8. I do not believe i need to leave the church and join the Orthodox church because the rules of concience support my stance and i take full responsibility in front of God
9. No one has the right to condmn my concience. I have the obligation to keep it informed.

Any comments will be most welcome

I would say your conscience is poorly formed and that would not excuse you in front of the terrible tribunal of God.

 

[Catholic1954]

The Catholic Church condems cohabitation out of hand. Proponents also dismiss decisions made through concience (i.e. in my inner self where i am alone with God). Yet I do cohabit and i do have a clear concience that remains open to new (name removed by moderator)uts and possible revision of my convictions.

The reasons why my concience is clear are too many to include in this post, yet I mention a few important ones:

1. The works of perfect Christian virtue spring from love and arrive at love
2. man was created to live with a woman and vice versa
3. i was fully committed to my first marriage
4. Adultery breaks the contact. This is an integral part of the teachings of the church and i remain surprised how it never features in matters of marriage failure and annulment
5. Jesus only speaks of adultery. Once the marriage is dead, i can not commit adultery because the marriage has been broken and does not exist.
6. Therefore, in the belief that my marriage has been broken by my wife, and that i am committed to a new relationship, that Jesus wants us to live a peaceful life, and the Church in my country does not carry out its duty (annulment takes away at least 10 years of my life) i have no other option than to confess my sin and start a new committed relationship.
7. This principle was accepted by the council of trent in allowing the Orthodox church to retain its practicies.
8. I do not believe i need to leave the church and join the Orthodox church because the rules of concience support my stance and i take full responsibility in front of God
9. No one has the right to condmn my concience. I have the obligation to keep it informed.

Any comments will be most welcome

Not one of these “arguements” justifies your cohabitation. You are married until the Church says you are not, through the annulment process and adultery during the marriage is not taken into consideration. BTW, YOU are commiting adultery yourself against your wife by living with this other woman.

 

[Iron_Donkey]

The Catholic Church condems cohabitation out of hand. Proponents also dismiss decisions made through concience (i.e. in my inner self where i am alone with God). Yet I do cohabit and i do have a clear concience that remains open to new (name removed by moderator)uts and possible revision of my convictions.

The reasons why my concience is clear are too many to include in this post, yet I mention a few important ones:

1. The works of perfect Christian virtue spring from love and arrive at love
2. man was created to live with a woman and vice versa
3. i was fully committed to my first marriage
4. Adultery breaks the contact. This is an integral part of the teachings of the church and i remain surprised how it never features in matters of marriage failure and annulment
5. Jesus only speaks of adultery. Once the marriage is dead, i can not commit adultery because the marriage has been broken and does not exist.
6. Therefore, in the belief that my marriage has been broken by my wife, and that i am committed to a new relationship, that Jesus wants us to live a peaceful life, and the Church in my country does not carry out its duty (annulment takes away at least 10 years of my life) i have no other option than to confess my sin and start a new committed relationship.
7. This principle was accepted by the council of trent in allowing the Orthodox church to retain its practicies.
8. I do not believe i need to leave the church and join the Orthodox church because the rules of concience support my stance and i take full responsibility in front of God
9. No one has the right to condmn my concience. I have the obligation to keep it informed.

Any comments will be most welcome

There’s a lot that could be addressed here, most especially a misunderstanding of conscience, “condemning conscience”, marriage, etc. Most of that has been mentioned already though, so I think it’s worth going a little more fundamental.

Your religion tag says you’re Catholic. Presumably, this means that you accept that the Catholic Church was instituted by Christ, and that you recognize that He promised that the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Truth, would be with it always to guide it into truth and protect it from theological error.

If this is true, and if the Church teaches definitively that sex outside of marriage is wrong (which it does), then it’s just wrong. So we have that the “the Church is the Church” implies “extramarital sex is wrong”.

Equivalently (via contrapositive), “extramarital sex is not wrong” implies “the Church is not the Church.” So what you need to do is ask yourself a question: which do you believe is true, the ancient and theologically rich faith of the Apostles given to us by Christ, or what your conscience which, in opposition to the moral beliefs of pretty much everyone everywhere except in the past few years (a time in which many people pretty much don’t even try to reason morally), tells you that your desires are very conveniently exactly what you should be doing? You can only have one, they are mutually exclusive.

Note that this is not the same as saying that you must follow the Church without question. You absolutely should question things you don’t understand, but you should resolve the question before acting on them in a way like this, and you should realize exactly what you are doing with your questions. The Church can’t be true and false at the same time. You must choose between cohabitation and Catholicism. Between what you want and what God clearly commands.

Which is how all sin works, really.

 

[dannyseek]

Thank you all for the time and effort to put forward your opinion. There are too many issues here to discuss so i will touch on a few important ones.

Concience is an issue that is amply dealth with in the teachings of the Church. If the Church had a clear answer to each and every situation, than concience would have no purpose because all we need to do is follow what the church teaches. The teachings on concience in themselves are proof that many situations come in all shades of grey, and they need an informed concience for individual behaviour.

1782 Man has the right to act in conscience and in freedom so as personally to make moral decisions…he must not be forced to act contrary to his conscience…

My concience is not reactive and adjusted to fit my needs but it is underpinned by major theological opinion not least that of the Orthodox Church as approved by the council of Trent.

My concience does not say that cohabitation is ok. In fact i stated that it is technically a sin. What my concience states is that in my case, for specific reasons as underpinned by the spirit of economia, and because key factors exist, namely that my first marriage is dead and secondly i am committed to my second relationship, than i believe that my situation is tenebale within the teachings of the church.

Yes, our doctrine speaks clearly on the death of marriage, hence it is not possible to act in an adulterous way when marriage dies:

2381 who commits adultery … does injury to the sign of the covenant which the marriage bond is…and undermines the institution of marriage BY BREAKING THE CONTRACT ON WHICH IT IS BASED,

I did in fact talk at length to three different priests and all three priests agreed that in their opinion i was not committed to the first marriage. Need I refer to St Paul’s statement that if a non believer abandons the marriage to a believer, than the believer is no longer tied to that marriage?

St Paul himself states that God wants us to live in peace and I am called to marriage and not to celibate life. Unfortunately it takes more than 10 years to have my marriage annulled in my country, and yes, it will not be annuled because of the aduterous behaviour of my wife but for other reasons prevailing on the day of marriage. In my case therefore there is no option but to cohabit in a committed relationship.

The catechism of the Catholic Church is far from being a black and white list of rules, hence the importnatce of concience. 2384 Divorce is a grave offence against natural law…2383 if civil divorce remains the only possible way of ensuring certain legal rights, the care of children, or the protection of inheritance, it can be tolerated and does not constitute a moral offence.

 

[Eufrosnia]

Thank you all for the time and effort to put forward your opinion. There are too many issues here to discuss so i will touch on a few important ones.

Concience is an issue that is amply dealth with in the teachings of the Church. If the Church had a clear answer to each and every situation, than concience would have no purpose because all we need to do is follow what the church teaches. The teachings on concience in themselves are proof that many situations come in all shades of grey, and they need an informed concience for individual behaviour.

Hold it right there. Cohabitation is an issue on which the Church has spoken. So there is no room left for you and neither is there any grey area. What else do you have in your defense now?

All you need to know is this:-

*Can my conscience err? YES (Catholic teaching)

How can I know it has erred? By the fact that it has done something contrary to Catholic teaching (Catholic teaching)

Therefore, since my decision on cohabitation is contrary to Catholic teaching, it must be a result of my malformed conscience. *

Everything else you have said is just trying to prove what you believe is true. You are not alone in this. History is full of individuals who tried that. Orthodox too have been crumbling under social and political pressure for centuries now. So you cannot expect doctrinal clarity in them in the same way you do with the Catholic Church.

In short, if you are Catholic, be Catholic. Don’t try being Orthodox.

 

[PJM]

=dannyseek;10904557]The Catholic Church condems cohabitation out of hand. Proponents also dismiss decisions made through concience (i.e. in my inner self where i am alone with God). Yet I do cohabit and i do have a clear concience that remains open to new (name removed by moderator)uts and possible revision of my convictions.

The reasons why my concience is clear are too many to include in this post, yet I mention a few important ones:

1. The works of perfect Christian virtue spring from love and arrive at love
2. man was created to live with a woman and vice versa
3. i was fully committed to my first marriage
4. Adultery breaks the contact. This is an integral part of the teachings of the church and i remain surprised how it never features in matters of marriage failure and annulment
5. Jesus only speaks of adultery. Once the marriage is dead, i can not commit adultery because the marriage has been broken and does not exist.
6. Therefore, in the belief that my marriage has been broken by my wife, and that i am committed to a new relationship, that Jesus wants us to live a peaceful life, and the Church in my country does not carry out its duty (annulment takes away at least 10 years of my life) i have no other option than to confess my sin and start a new committed relationship.
7. This principle was accepted by the council of trent in allowing the Orthodox church to retain its practicies.
8. I do not believe i need to leave the church and join the Orthodox church because the rules of concience support my stance and i take full responsibility in front of God
9. No one has the right to condmn my concience. I have the obligation to keep it informed.

Any comments will be most welcome

Nice try Danny

The question to ask is and has always been who’s in charge? You or your God. And the responsibility can’t be shared.

Did Christ give YOU the only keys to heavens access? No Mt. 16:15-19

Did Christ tell you to go teach ALL that I [your perfect God] taught to you? No Mt. 28-16-20 & Mk. 16:14-15

Did Christ give HIMSELF as a warranty of Teaching only the truth on all Faith and Moral issues? No John 17:14-20

And what did Jesus teach about forgiveness? * Mt.18: 20-22

While you MUST follow your conscience; you, like each and everyonre of is GRAVELY [undert eh pain of Mortal sin] to make every effort to INSURE that your conscience is fully and rightly informed.

CCC #1783 Conscience must be informed and moral judgment enlightened. A well-formed conscience is upright and truthful. It formulates its judgments according to reason, in conformity with the true good willed by the wisdom of the Creator. The education of conscience is indispensable for human beings who are subjected to negative influences and tempted by sin to prefer their own judgment and to reject authoritative teachings

I am TRULY sorry for your pain! BUT never, ever have two WRONGS ='d one right:thumbsup:

I’ll pray for you!*

 

[neophyte]

Thank you all for the time and effort to put forward your opinion. There are too many issues here to discuss so i will touch on a few important ones…

The most important issue here is that you’re rationalizing your gravely sinful behavior. You might be fooling yourself, but you’re not fooling us.

 

[Iron_Donkey]

Thank you all for the time and effort to put forward your opinion. There are too many issues here to discuss so i will touch on a few important ones.

Concience is an issue that is amply dealth with in the teachings of the Church. If the Church had a clear answer to each and every situation, than concience would have no purpose because all we need to do is follow what the church teaches. The teachings on concience in themselves are proof that many situations come in all shades of grey, and they need an informed concience for individual behaviour.

1782 Man has the right to act in conscience and in freedom so as personally to make moral decisions…he must not be forced to act contrary to his conscience…

But don’t forget this one:

1785 In the formation of conscience the Word of God is the light for our path,54 we must assimilate it in faith and prayer and put it into practice. We must also examine our conscience before the Lord’s Cross. We are assisted by the gifts of the Holy Spirit, aided by the witness or advice of others and guided by the authoritative teaching of the Church.55

You have to realize what you’re saying here. You are saying that because you’ve decided that it’s ok, you can ignore very clear Church teaching. This is silly.

It’s true that you should form your conscience and that you should follow it, but part of being Catholic is to very specifically form your conscience to agree with Catholic teaching.

My concience is not reactive and adjusted to fit my needs but it is underpinned by major theological opinion not least that of the Orthodox Church as approved by the council of Trent.

Or at least your reading of such, but clearly the Church disagrees. And it decides, not you.

My concience does not say that cohabitation is ok. In fact i stated that it is technically a sin. What my concience states is that in my case, for specific reasons as underpinned by the spirit of economia, and because key factors exist, namely that my first marriage is dead and secondly i am committed to my second relationship, than i believe that my situation is tenebale within the teachings of the church.

If your first marriage was sacramental, it lives until one of you dies. If not, it lives until dissolved by a competent authority. Period. If you think it was invalid, have it declared as such. You do not have the authority for yourself to decide that you are not married once you make those vows.

Yes, our doctrine speaks clearly on the death of marriage, hence it is not possible to act in an adulterous way when marriage dies:

2381 who commits adultery … does injury to the sign of the covenant which the marriage bond is…and undermines the institution of marriage BY BREAKING THE CONTRACT ON WHICH IT IS BASED,

The contract is not merely the civil contract. You made a vow to God. There is nothing about death of marriage here. You and your wife married by making a vow to each other before God, and you can’t undo that.

I did in fact talk at length to three different priests and all three priests agreed that in their opinion i was not committed to the first marriage. Need I refer to St Paul’s statement that if a non believer abandons the marriage to a believer, than the believer is no longer tied to that marriage?

Yes, you should refer to that, and you should refer to how that is applied by the Church. It’s called the Pauline privelege, and if you think you’re eligible for it, start the process.

St Paul himself states that God wants us to live in peace and I am called to marriage and not to celibate life. Unfortunately it takes more than 10 years to have my marriage annulled in my country, and yes, it will not be annuled because of the aduterous behaviour of my wife but for other reasons prevailing on the day of marriage. In my case therefore there is no option but to cohabit in a committed relationship.

Forgive me, but BULL. St. Paul says that God wants us to live in peace, but God says that if your right hand should keep you from the kingdom of God then you cut it off. Then afterwards, you do your best to find peace with only one hand.

You have two options, but they start the same way: Suck it up. Carry your cross, and do the right thing. Stop living adulterously, with a woman you are not married to. After that you have two options: find out if the marriage that you are in is valid, and remarry if it’s not, OR live celibately.

Engaging in mortal sin is never an option.

The catechism of the Catholic Church is far from being a black and white list of rules, hence the importnatce of concience. 2384 Divorce is a grave offence against natural law…2383 if civil divorce remains the only possible way of ensuring certain legal rights, the care of children, or the protection of inheritance, it can be tolerated and does not constitute a moral offence.

Correction: The Catechism of the Catholic Church is far from being merely a black an white list of rules. There are certainly some black and white rules in there, which conscience cannot overrule. No murdering innocents. No torture. And no having sex with people you aren’t married to.

 

[crenfro]

Yet I do cohabit and i do have a clear concience that remains open to new (name removed by moderator)uts and possible revision of my convictions.

…

Any comments will be most welcome

Hello.

I don’t know if this will help you, but I have a good Catholic printed examination of conscience which has helped me immensely over the years - it’s changed my life.
Perhaps using one regularly might help - I don’t know.

I’m actually unclear about what sort of comments you’re looking for - maybe you could be more specific?

I will keep you in my prayers. Please pray for me.

 

[dannyseek]

Authoritative teachings are absolute and hence do not need recource to concience. Recourse to concience is needed when teachings are not conclusive. In the case of cohabitation, the teaching of the church is far from being conclusive. The principle that cohabitation is wrong is in no doubt. The doubt arises when the principile is applied to specific instances when the church’s position is far from conclusive and hence recourse to concience is needed.

In my case the priest who adviced me about my cohabitation correctness has been out with his opinion in newspapers and the Church has taken no sanction against him in the past year or so.

 

[Iron_Donkey]

Authoritative teachings are absolute and hence do not need recource to concience. Recourse to concience is needed when teachings are not conclusive. In the case of cohabitation, the teaching of the church is far from being conclusive. The principle that cohabitation is wrong is in no doubt. The doubt arises when the principile is applied to specific instances when the church’s position is far from conclusive and hence recourse to concience is needed.

In my case the priest who adviced me about my cohabitation correctness has been out with his opinion in newspapers and the Church has taken no sanction against him in the past year or so.

The teaching of the Church is extremely conclusive. Sex outside marriage is bad always and everywhere. No exceptions are made for really wanting to. And there is no way whatsoever to apply the principle “X is always bad” and arrive at the conclusion “I can do X.” As for the priest - well not all priests are right about everything, and the Church isn’t always fast to correct them (there’s about 400,000 priests in the world, and only about 5,000 bishops), but if he is indeed teaching such a blatantly false idea, he’ll have to answer to God for that. Better if you don’t as well.

I’m not trying to be overly harsh here, but this is not a gray area, and the sooner you realize it the better.