We are to love our neighbors as ourselves. Nowhere in the Bible or in Catholic moral theology are we taught that we should be so self-centered that we only care about our neighbor when it is affecting “ME.” You seem to have set your moral compass more to the culture we live in (i.e. the world) than to the Church (i.e. Christ).
“I seem” really?? This is the world we live in and I am going to live my life the best as I can in the light of Christ. I am not going to shun people for decisions I can’t control. If they ask me directly if I agree with their decision I am never going to lie and tell them what they want to hear, but what I feel is right in the eyes of The Lord. But am I going to shun them or give my opinion to them, No. It’s not my place to do so. God made different houses for different people to live on. In my house, we Obey God. Outside my. Home I can’t control so I don’t try and I don’t worry about it, I DO PRAY ABOUT THE WORLD AND WHAT IT HAS COME. I do my part in society trying to make it a better place.
The answer to that question is “Yes.” Yes, they are harming people beyond themselves by living together before marriage. We now live in a society that does not know what marriage is. Contributing factors to this state of confusion about the definition of marriage is co-habitation and divorce. The divorce rate of those who live together before marriage is higher than those who don’t. Marriage and divorce are public acts. Therefore, what affects them, (like acting as if one is married through co-habitation) also affects the public. It affects the public attitude towards marriage. More importantly, this public display of disregard for marriage ultimately affects children–because marriage relates to pro-creation. People who engage in marital acts outside of marriage leave their offspring vulnerable to many problems, including death through abortion and fatherlessness. Such problems have an impact on society as well, as the prisons are filled with men raised without fathers.
Thanks for the well thought out response. I think you hit the nail on the head with the distinction between attending a party thrown by the couple to celebrate a non-sinful occasion (e.g. X-Mas, B-Day, Promotion at Work, etc) and a party thrown which is celebrating something sinful (e.g. buying a house to cohabit in).
Perhaps you misunderstood my reasoning. At no point did I suggest shunning the cohabitating couple. That would be wrong and not charitable and I agree with you that we all sin and we should not be pointing fingers and gossiping. However, as Catholic Christians we have an obligation to draw a line in the sand about some things and living together without marriage is one of them and I applaud anyone who has the courage to take a stand against it. Thirty-five years ago when the baby boomers shacked up (as it was called then) it raised eyebrows and the people doing it absolutely knew that it was immoral and expected people to disapprove and perhaps these couples even felt a little shame. The general attitude was that living together without marriage was a bad thing and that truth has not changed just our attitudes have changed. Fast forward to the next generation and the attitude that living together was sinful has been eradicated to the point where couples don’t even understand the grave immorality they are cooperating with. It is quite horrifying when you think of the damage done to their souls. And yes, more sin comes along with the sin of living with someone such as an unexpected pregnancy and the need for an abortion. You see, someone does potentially get very hurt. Then there is the bad influence that couple is giving to younger family members and society in general and the break down of the family. Forty percent of all children are born to unwed mothers now. Then there is the emotional damage after the break up. Then there is the sin of asking others to celebrate, tolerate and justify your sin by having a party. On and on it goes. God is asking us to be brave and help these poor souls if not by our words then by our actions. It truly is right and just to explain God’s truth to your loved ones.
Daddygirl,
No I wouldn’t attend, I’m not saying I know more than the Bishop.
Are you aware that the Catholic Church considers such a marriage valid? This is not just a matter of opinions, this is the official position of the Catholic Church. A Catholic who receives a dispensation to marry a non-catholic has a valid marriage, there is no sin involved in their relationship. Just as two budhists, or two atheists, or two protestants who get married for the first time to each other also marry validly according to the Catholic Church itself. This isnt a matter of different people having different opinions about this, this is the official Church teaching. Such people in no way sin by their romantic relationship as they are validly married. There is no reason to avoid such weddings.No I wouldn’t attend, I’m not saying I know more than the Bishop.
I’m saying I still wouldn’t attend, To me if it’s not in the Catholic church than it’s not…how do I say this…Catholic?
It’s black and white for me.
I understand some people may not agree with this, and that’s fine.
Living together is not in and of itself a sin, however, it often necessitates other situations which are sinful without sufficient reason. Namely, the near occasion of sin and leading others to sin by your example (for instance, even if you are strong enough to remain chaste, others might be led by your example to try to live chastely in such a situation and fail, or people could just think you’re having sex anyway, which leads to a more accepting general attitude towards unchaste behaviour and makes it easier for others to live unchastely)
Any sex outside of marriage is sinful, including premarital sex. Living together isn’t inherently sinful, but can become an occasion for sin (i.e. makes falling into sin much more likely) and it can cause scandal to others, which can also be a sin. So living together itself is wrong and can itself be sinful even without extra-marital sex (which is always sinful). Hope that helps.
No date.
For reference:
(forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=167154)
So the problem here is what MIGHT happen, what COULD be happening, and what OTHER people might think of this? Even if they’re not having sex, they’re sinning for what OTHERS might think of their situation?
Whether or not I’d enjoy myself is immaterial. My objection isn’t that I wouldn’t have a good time, on the contrary I probably would, it is that I cannot, in good conscience, support and celebrate something immoral, which is what this amounts to.
This is contrary to both Church teaching and to the meaning of an “invalid marriage.” An illicit marriage would be one where the couple has broken the law of the Church (or gov’t) but where the couple is still married. This is not the case when a Catholic marries outside the Church without dispensation - in this case the marriage is invalid, meaning the couple is not married. They might think they are married, they certainly will live as if they are married, but they are not, in point of fact, actually married. As they are not married at all, they are not “getting married in a sacramental ceremony.” Again, b/c the wedding is invalid, they are not getting married at all, not in a natural ceremony, not in a sacramental ceremony. They could choose to have the marriage convalidated in the future, but that possibility doesn’t make their current actions moral.
You mentioned gay “marriage” above. I also have a gay cousin who is in a comitted relationship with another man. If gay “marriage” comes to my state I wouldn’t be surprised if he “married” his partner. In this senario they too would “believe their marriage is valid” and they too would not want to sleep in separate bedrooms. But they are not (and in principal can never be) married. In other words, thinking you are married doesn’t mean you are married.
Christ Himself tells us to be prepared for this. Indeed we are not worthy of Him if we are not willing to accept this. From Matthew 10:
Hi thewanderer,