College Course Lumps Homosexuality, Rape, Murder

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Exactly. Homosexuality & mental illness are not behaviors. People do not choose to be depressed. Having depression & anxiety disorders are not the same as **commiting an act ** such as murder, rape or robbery. Homosexuality & mental illness have the possibilty to put one in risk of committing a sin, but they’re NOT actual sins themselves. Murder, rape, & robbery ARE sins. That’s the difference. I do not consider murder, rape or robbery to be simply “out of the norm” behavior. They’re criminal behaviors. The stuff that gets you locked up. Homosexuality, mental illness, or addiction alone will not get you locked up (it used to in the days of mental institutions, but those were horrible places).
Where in the description does it say that all of the devient behaviors listed are of the same magnatude? It is your own bias that sees it as more than simply a list of behaviors that will be discussed in the class. From an academic viewpoint, homosexuality is the perfect subject for a deviant behaviors class because of the shifting from a devient behavior to a normal behavior in some societies.
 
There’s nothing quite like making a moutain out of a mole hill. I took the same class as a sociology major in college (although different college). Devient behavior does not necessarily mean bad behavior. What is the norm for one society is devient for another. 🤷

Here is the class description:
DEVIANT BEHAVIOR focuses on the sociological theories of deviant behavior
The word homosexuality can refer not only to a quality—he suffers from homosexuality—but also to the behavior—homosexuality was rampant in the city of Sodom. This course seems to be talking about the behavior, and not the quality.
 
Where in the description does it say that all of the devient behaviors listed are of the same magnatude? It is your own bias that sees it as more than simply a list of behaviors that will be discussed in the class. From an academic viewpoint, homosexuality is the perfect subject for a deviant behaviors class because of the shifting from a devient behavior to a normal behavior in some societies.
Thank you. The course description is fine. Some very much want to find trouble to further their agenda.
 
The word homosexuality can refer not only to a quality—he suffers from homosexuality—but also to the behavior—homosexuality was rampant in the city of Sodom. This course seems to be talking about the behavior, and not the quality.
The focus will most likely be on the social constructs and how they relate to those behaviors and not so much the behaviors themselves.
 
Possibly. I often wonder why same-sex intercourse is singled out though. Its not considered worse than any other intercourse outside of marriage from a doctrinal standpoint. I would think it would be a more comprehensive approach since it all falls under the same umbrella. 🤷
.
things against the natural law are considered worse sins. which is why masturbation and homosexuality are worse sins than fornication.
 
things against the natural law are considered worse sins. which is why masturbation and homosexuality are worse sins than fornication.
This isn’t Church doctrine.

Aquinas made such distinctions but his opinions are not doctrine.
 
For Franciscan University’s comments, I recommend reading the article from the Catholic News Agency on this:

catholicnewsagency.com/news/franciscan-university-defends-deviance-course-against-critics/

Basically, we’re talking about a 3 sentence course description culled from the chapter titles of a textbook that dozens of secular schools are also using.

Much ado about nothing.

Remember, it’s a course description. It mentions all the topics that will be discussed throughout the course. That does not somehow mean that FUS is making some bold proclamation that every item on that list is equally evil. :rolleyes: Let’s use our common sense, people! 😛

“Deviant” is a value-neutral term in the field of psychology, sociology, social work, et al. I studied psychology at a secular school and we used that term. It means “different from the norm.”
 
University of Missouri address homosexuality and violent crimes in their Deviant Behavior; as does Texas A&M, University of Minnesota, and a host of others. Seems to be the norm for this sort of class… Nothing more than another meritless attack on a Catholic institution.
:sad_yes:

Thanks for posting this.
 
I’d just like to point out that heterosexuality is not mutually exclusive of sodomy, many heterosexuals can and do commit the sin of sodomy.

People are getting annoyed with the University because it lumps homosexuality with crimes including some very violent ones like murder and rape and also mental illness.

homosexual as an adjective refers to sexual attraction to the same sex, as a noun it refers to someone who is sexually attracted to the same sex. Homosexuality as a noun refers to the condition of homosexual attraction, the Catechism’s definition is “Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex.”

If one looks at the Catechism it uses the phrases “homosexual acts”, “homosexual tendencies” and “homosexual persons”. The first refers to the actions which it describes as “intrinsically disordered” due to closing closing the sexual act to life and they are contrary to the natural law (which is different from nature). The second refers to the inclination towards the first which people on this forum frequently call “same sex attraction” (that term doesn’t appear in documents by the magisterium) and society normally calls homosexuality (the condition of sexual attraction to the same sex). The last term, “homosexual persons”, refers to people with the condition of “homosexual inclinations” known to society as homosexuality. I would like to note that due to how the Catechism defines “homosexual persons” it does include bisexuals as well as gays and lesbians. Another term which needs defining is “disordered”, disordered in the Catholic sense does not refer to mental disorders, it refers to anything which is contrary to the order of natural law, in the Latin it uses the term inordinata which is also used to describe lust, masturbation and divorce.
 
The Franciscan University of Steubenville in Ohio faces questions about its accreditation because of a course description that links homosexuality with crimes like murder, rape and robbery.
It’s the “Mortal Sin” pile. If a Catholic University teaches about anything, it ought to teach those things.

WHO is questioning its accreditation? I advise the University to hire a Private Detective to counter-examine such people. Which may not seem charitable, but there is something to be said for self-defense. Of which “going on offense” can be an effective component. 🙂

Am I really serious about that? :hmmm: - I don’t knoooooow. But it made me feel better. 😃

I wonder if any similar “questions about its accreditation” ever came up at the University of Chicago while our current President taught his course on Saul Alinsky there. Alinsky’s book, “Rules for Radicals” included a dedication to “Lucifer”. And the University of Chicago doesn’t have a Church affiliation to live up to.



Barack Obama taught the principles of Saul Alinsky in Chicago. Notice the flow chart indicating the flow of money and power out of productive businesses (“CORP”) and into the political class (“MAYOR”). The heading at the top reads “POWER ANALYSIS”. The sub-heading reads “RELATIONSHIPS BUILD ON SELF INTEREST”. The symbol on the arrow between “CORP” and “MAYOR” is the “$” sign.

Saul Alinsky came up with the idea of power analysis, which looks at relationships built on self-interest between corporations, banks and utilities. Barack Obama was teaching students in Chicago the Alinsky Principles. —

above photo and caption excerpted from thegatewaypundit.com/2012/01/monica-crowley-alinsky-dedicated-his-book-to-lucifer-and-obama-taught-alinsky-video/
 
Possibly. I often wonder why same-sex intercourse is singled out though. Its not considered worse than any other intercourse outside of marriage from a doctrinal standpoint.
Incorrect. (Very) Homosexual activity, contraception, and masturbation are all considered evils of an unnatural category, whereas fornication is considered an evil of a natural category, thus making it less severe than unnatural evils. This was all explained well by one of the few very-well-educated modern apologists on today’s Catholic Answers Live show. This is one thing that most Catholics who support homosexual behavior (against Church doctrine) fail to understand when they equate it with mere heterosexual fornication. It is not.

It is not sacred. It is not parallel to heterosexual relationships (despite “commitment” and “monogamy”). It is not created by God. This (again) was all explained extremely well in today’s show.
Few people understand it or the terminology used in its entirety and the theology behind it is difficult for a lot of people to understand. Catholicism is certainly not a religion for the weak minded.
They don’t understand it because they have not been well educated in the structure of the reasoning, in the philosophical principles underlying the reasoning. Cathoicism is not a religion, if understood well and accurately, for those who feel more at home with the 60-second-sound-bite generation.
 
Incorrect. (Very) Homosexual activity, contraception, and masturbation are all considered evils of an unnatural category, whereas fornication is considered an evil of a natural category, thus making it less severe than unnatural evils. This was all explained well by one of the few very-well-educated modern apologists on today’s Catholic Answers Live show. This is one thing that most Catholics who support homosexual behavior (against Church doctrine) fail to understand when they equate it with mere heterosexual fornication. It is not.

It is not sacred. It is not parallel to heterosexual relationships (despite “commitment” and “monogamy”). It is not created by God. This (again) was all explained extremely well in today’s show.

They don’t understand it because they have not been well educated in the structure of the reasoning, in the philosophical principles underlying the reasoning. Cathoicism is not a religion, if understood well and accurately, for those who feel more at home with the 60-second-sound-bite generation.
True, sodomy by homosexuals isn’t comparable to fornication, it is comparable to sodomy by heterosexuals.

True, same sex “marriage” is technically profane.

It’s not for the five minute sound bite people either.
 
True, sodomy by homosexuals isn’t comparable to fornication, it is comparable to sodomy by heterosexuals.
Whatever.

All sexual activity between those of the same sex is unnatural, even if sodomy per se is avoided. All of it. That was the point he was making. It was not a distinction between sodomy and other sexual behavior between homosexuals which was being discussed, no matter how often the argument on CAF is made that other forms of sexual activity outside of sodomy makes those expressions of homosexual activity harmless, less harmful, or even good.
True, same sex “marriage” is technically profane.
No. It fundamentally (not “technically”) violates natural moral law. In order for a union to be a marriage, it must be unitive (objectively defined). By definition, no homosexual relationship can be unitive. Again, this was discussed in today’s CAL show in Hour One. That is an absolute principle of Catholic moral theology, not a relative principle subject to changing popular opinion.
It’s not for the five minute sound bite people either.
What is that supposed to mean?
 
Whatever.

All sexual activity between those of the same sex is unnatural, even if sodomy per se is avoided. All of it. That was the point he was making. It was not a distinction between sodomy and other sexual behavior between homosexuals which was being discussed, no matter how often the argument on CAF is made that other forms of sexual activity outside of sodomy makes those expressions of homosexual activity harmless, less harmful, or even good.

No. It fundamentally (not “technically”) violates natural moral law. In order for a union to be a marriage, it must be unitive (objectively defined). By definition, no homosexual relationship can be unitive. Again, this was discussed in today’s CAL show in Hour One. That is an absolute principle of Catholic moral theology, not a relative principle subject to changing popular opinion.

What is that supposed to mean?
Sodomy includes all inherently sterile sexual activity between two people, AFAIK it is impossible for two people of the same sex to engage in sex that isn’t inherently sterile. It is however unclear whether two people using contraceptives are committing the sin of sodomy.

Technically: “according to the facts or exact meaning of something; strictly”

regarding unitive:
Summa Theologica:
Question 28. The effects of love
Article 1. Whether union is an effect of love?

Objection 1. It would seem that union is not an effect of love. For absence is incompatible with union. But love is compatible with absence; for the Apostle says (Galatians 4:18): “Be zealous for that which is good in a good thing always” (speaking of himself, according to a gloss), “and not only when I am present with you.” Therefore union is not an effect of love.

Objection 2. Further, every union is either according to essence, thus form is united to matter, accident to subject, and a part to the whole, or to another part in order to make up the whole: or according to likeness, in genus, species, or accident. But love does not cause union of essence; else love could not be between things essentially distinct. On the other hand, love does not cause union of likeness, but rather is caused by it, as stated above (Question 27, Article 3). Therefore union is not an effect of love.

On the contrary, Dionysius says (Div. Nom. iv) that every love is a “unitive love.”

I answer that, The union of lover and beloved is twofold. The first is real union; for instance, when the beloved is present with the lover. The second is union of affection: and this union must be considered in relation to the preceding apprehension; since movement of the appetite follows apprehension. Now love being twofold, viz. love of concupiscence and love of friendship; each of these arises from a kind of apprehension of the oneness of the thing loved with the lover. For when we love a thing, by desiring it, we apprehend it as belonging to our well-being. In like manner when a man loves another with the love of friendship, he wills good to him, just as he wills good to himself: wherefore he apprehends him as his other self, in so far, to wit, as he wills good to him as to himself. Hence a friend is called a man’s “other self” (Ethic. ix, 4), and Augustine says (Confess. iv, 6), “Well did one say to his friend: Thou half of my soul.”

The first of these unions is caused “effectively” by love; because love moves man to desire and seek the presence of the beloved, as of something suitable and belonging to him. The second union is caused “formally” by love; because love itself is this union or bond. In this sense Augustine says (De Trin. viii, 10) that “love is a vital principle uniting, or seeking to unite two together, the lover, to wit, and the beloved.” For in describing it as “uniting” he refers to the union of affection, without which there is no love: and in saying that “it seeks to unite,” he refers to real union.

Reply to Objection 1. This argument is true of real union. That is necessary to pleasure as being its cause; desire implies the real absence of the beloved: but love remains whether the beloved be absent or present.

Reply to Objection 2. Union has a threefold relation to love. There is union which causes love; and this is substantial union, as regards the love with which one loves oneself; while as regards the love wherewith one loves other things, it is the union of likeness, as stated above (Question 27, Article 3). There is also a union which is essentially love itself. This union is according to a bond of affection, and is likened to substantial union, inasmuch as the lover stands to the object of his love, as to himself, if it be love of friendship; as to something belonging to himself, if it be love of concupiscence. Again there is a union, which is the effect of love. This is real union, which the lover seeks with the object of his love. Moreover this union is in keeping with the demands of love: for as the Philosopher relates (Polit. ii, 1), “Aristophanes stated that lovers would wish to be united both into one,” but since “this would result in either one or both being destroyed,” they seek a suitable and becoming union–to live together, speak together, and be united together in other like things.
Something can be unitive without involving sexuality whatsoever. I think you meant procreative.

It can take years and decades to fully understand Catholicism.
 
I wonder if anyone is actually reading the response of the University. 🤷

Simply because two topics appear together in the same course description does not mean they are being “lumped” together. It just means they’re discussing those two topics during the course.

And, once again, the course description is simply culled from the chapter titles of a textbook that even secular schools are using.

This story is all smoke and no fire.
 
I wonder if anyone is actually reading the response of the University. 🤷

Simply because two topics appear together in the same course description does not mean they are being “lumped” together. It just means they’re discussing those two topics during the course.

And, once again, the course description is simply culled from the chapter titles of a textbook that even secular schools are using.

This story is all smoke and no fire.
You are very correct. The problem is that the story exists to further an ideology.
 
Even Wikipedia acknoledges that "deviance" is a sociological term.

The only reason this story has grabbed any headlines is because their is a disconnect between the extremely negative connotation of the word “deviant” in the popular mindset with the value-neutral way it is used in the social sciences. And, of course, people are always looking for a reason to hate the Catholic Church over Her stance on homosexual activity.
 
Sodomy includes all inherently sterile sexual activity between two people, AFAIK it is impossible for two people of the same sex to engage in sex that isn’t inherently sterile.
Correct. But that is not the only reason that sexual activity between two of the same sex is morally forbidden.
It is however unclear whether two people using contraceptives are committing the sin of sodomy.
Heterosexuals using contraceptives are violating the inherently procreative (i.e., uninterrupted, unmanipulated) aspect of heterosexual activity. They are not “committing sodomy.” You are very confused.
Something can be unitive without involving sexuality whatsoever. I think you meant procreative.
No, I did not “mean procreative.” Unitive in a Catholic, not a secular, context, has a specific meaning when used within the category of moral theology. That meaning relates to a heterosexual relationship and nothing else. There is an additional meaning of unitive as it applies to spirituality – specifically, mysticism. Unitive does not apply in any broad sense to relationships of all kinds. (In a Catholic context. We are talking about Catholicism here, not Merriam-Webster’s Dictionary.)
It can take years and decades to fully understand Catholicism.
And more than half of practicing Catholics, as well as more than half of the current CAF posting population, do not understand even the essentials of Catholic moral theology – never mind “fully.”
 
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