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quinone
Guest
your daughter is 21. i think she has already considered the possible reactions/questions that you may have regarding this trip even before telling you about it, including the things you may be thinking but not saying.
though it is best to run away from temptations versus trying very hard to resist it.
though it is best to run away from temptations versus trying very hard to resist it.
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Meagan34
Guest
Thank you all for your (name removed by moderator)ut. I think it might help if I explain a bit more about the situation.
If my daughter were the bratty, rotten type of girl that wanted to do whatever she wanted this might actually be easier. Her siblings adore her, they have missed her all the years she’s been at school and she has been a wonderful big sister. My husband and I are struggling to make ends meet since he got laid off and she has paid more than her fair share of grocery bills, water bills, and even a mortgage payment once. She’s currently in an internship that pays her well but we have never once asked her to help us financially, she’s just aware of our struggles and does it out of her own accord and has never once mentioned us paying her back even when we protest. She is always willing to help around the house, and with the younger ones, it would be a lie to say that her moving out would be better for our family.
I guess I’m torn between admonishing this trip with her boyfriend and possibly creating distance between us and my faith’s morals telling me that what she’s doing is wrong.
If my daughter were the bratty, rotten type of girl that wanted to do whatever she wanted this might actually be easier. Her siblings adore her, they have missed her all the years she’s been at school and she has been a wonderful big sister. My husband and I are struggling to make ends meet since he got laid off and she has paid more than her fair share of grocery bills, water bills, and even a mortgage payment once. She’s currently in an internship that pays her well but we have never once asked her to help us financially, she’s just aware of our struggles and does it out of her own accord and has never once mentioned us paying her back even when we protest. She is always willing to help around the house, and with the younger ones, it would be a lie to say that her moving out would be better for our family.
I guess I’m torn between admonishing this trip with her boyfriend and possibly creating distance between us and my faith’s morals telling me that what she’s doing is wrong.
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aloe
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She sounds like a wonderful person and wonderful daughter. I would err lovingly in her favor and trust her judgement. I would continue to pray for her.
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SuperLuigi
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Meagen, I think at this point you need to discuss with a priest and find out what, if any, obligation you may have as a parent in the situation.
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Meagan34
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Thank you everyone for their advice. I just had a talk with my daughter and I’ve learned a little bit more about her views regarding all of this. She doesn’t think sharing a room with her boyfriend nor living with him would be immoral. 
I proceeded to ask her if they have been intimate but the response was that it wasn’t “any of my business”. I reminded her what the Faith teaches only for her to respond that it was “my thing” and not something she truly believes. I feel very heartbroken but I don’t know if I can be mad at her.
She told me she respects my views and of course she won’t be telling her siblings that she will be sharing a room with her boyfriend. Her boyfriend has an apartment not too far away and I’m very scared that if I continue to push this she’ll end up moving in with him.
I proceeded to ask her if they have been intimate but the response was that it wasn’t “any of my business”. I reminded her what the Faith teaches only for her to respond that it was “my thing” and not something she truly believes. I feel very heartbroken but I don’t know if I can be mad at her.She told me she respects my views and of course she won’t be telling her siblings that she will be sharing a room with her boyfriend. Her boyfriend has an apartment not too far away and I’m very scared that if I continue to push this she’ll end up moving in with him.
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sailor28
Guest
My husband and I were virgins when we got married. However, we did go camping together and also slept in the same bed before marriage.
It has been my experience that a lot of Catholic couples came to their faith after marriage. Which meant that they had sex before marriage. Many of these couples still expected their kids to not have sex before marriage even though they did themselves. In a sense they did not set the example for their own children that they want them to follow for their younger siblings.
The spiritual journey is a journey. Your daughter sounds like a wonderful young woman. I would definitely not threaten to kick her out. You can love her and disagree with her. She is 21 and an adult.
It has been my experience that a lot of Catholic couples came to their faith after marriage. Which meant that they had sex before marriage. Many of these couples still expected their kids to not have sex before marriage even though they did themselves. In a sense they did not set the example for their own children that they want them to follow for their younger siblings.
The spiritual journey is a journey. Your daughter sounds like a wonderful young woman. I would definitely not threaten to kick her out. You can love her and disagree with her. She is 21 and an adult.
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pianistclare
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Well, I’m sorry to hear this. I’ll keep you all in my prayers.Thank you everyone for their advice. I just had a talk with my daughter and I’ve learned a little bit more about her views regarding all of this. She doesn’t think sharing a room with her boyfriend nor living with him would be immoral.
She told me she respects my views and of course she won’t be telling her siblings that she will be sharing a room with her boyfriend. Her boyfriend has an apartment not too far away and I’m very scared that if I continue to push this she’ll end up moving in with him.
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insideitall
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I just wanted to point out that if they are sexually active (whether that involves actual intercourse or “just other stuff”), those activites are not restricted to “sleeping over” situations. my mother threw absolute FITS when I had a boyfriend in high school and would come home late on the weekend, totally convinced I was out that late solely because I was having sex. I actually had to explain to her that if I wanted to have sex, I’d find a way to do it regardless of the time, because sex is not only allowed to occur late at night. I have absolutely no idea why she assumed that any other time of day consisted of nothing but appropriate behavior, but after 10pm was automatically hanky-panky city 
my point is, even if they got two hotel rooms, what’s to prevent them from having sex in one of those rooms prior to going to sleep, or from not even using one of the rooms and sleeping together anyway?
my point is, even if they got two hotel rooms, what’s to prevent them from having sex in one of those rooms prior to going to sleep, or from not even using one of the rooms and sleeping together anyway?
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QuasiCatholic
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This is a ridiculous premise. There are only about 50 countries in Europe and at least a dozen of them have **higher **cohabitation rates than the U.S. does.
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JimG
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This is quite true. I read somewhere that the most common locale for adolescents to have sex was in their parents’ home, not necessarily in a bedroom, not necessarily at night.I just wanted to point out that if they are sexually active (whether that involves actual intercourse or “just other stuff”), those activites are not restricted to “sleeping over” situations. my mother threw absolute FITS when I had a boyfriend in high school and would come home late on the weekend, totally convinced I was out that late solely because I was having sex. I actually had to explain to her that if I wanted to have sex, I’d find a way to do it regardless of the time, because sex is not only allowed to occur late at night. I have absolutely no idea why she assumed that any other time of day consisted of nothing but appropriate behavior, but after 10pm was automatically hanky-panky city
But I guess I’m too old. I’ll never quite understand why so many now think that fornication is no big deal. Perhaps it’s because they think that marriage is no big deal either. Too bad for marriage. Too bad for individuals, too bad for families, the nation, and the future.
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iepuras
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If religion is “your thing”, she is probably going to move in with him regardless of what you do.Thank you everyone for their advice. I just had a talk with my daughter and I’ve learned a little bit more about her views regarding all of this. She doesn’t think sharing a room with her boyfriend nor living with him would be immoral.
She told me she respects my views and of course she won’t be telling her siblings that she will be sharing a room with her boyfriend. Her boyfriend has an apartment not too far away and I’m very scared that if I continue to push this she’ll end up moving in with him.
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JimG
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At least she says she won’t be sharing this information with her siblings, which is a good thing, and reflects a certain respect for your views. You’ve done nothing wrong here. But the culture which she is surrounded by implicitly denies that there is anything wrong with cohabitation. You can still follow your Faith and try to be an example for her and the rest of your children.Thank you everyone for their advice. I just had a talk with my daughter and I’ve learned a little bit more about her views regarding all of this. She doesn’t think sharing a room with her boyfriend nor living with him would be immoral.
She told me she respects my views and of course she won’t be telling her siblings that she will be sharing a room with her boyfriend. Her boyfriend has an apartment not too far away and I’m very scared that if I continue to push this she’ll end up moving in with him.
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robwar
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Yes, I am sure she doesn’t view sharing hotel rooms as immoral or potentially immoral, that is why she can justify it. I totally understand why you are heart broken. It is very upsetting when you have done your best to raise her in the Church. There are so many studies that demonstrate that living together before marriage, having sex before marriage undermines the stability and faithfulness afterwards. Sadly that is something she is probably going to find out the hard way here. I’m not sure why girls decide to plan trips with guys without the ring. The old saying why buy the cow when the milk is free. I think at her age, the only card you have is to get some guts, take the risk and not fund the trip or support it. With everything going on in France and Europe, I’m not so sure about safety to boot. Yes, she is wonderful in the many ways you listed and is helpful etc. but making choices like this is immoral and this trip may lead to her leaving the home anyway no matter what you do.Thank you everyone for their advice. I just had a talk with my daughter and I’ve learned a little bit more about her views regarding all of this. She doesn’t think sharing a room with her boyfriend nor living with him would be immoral.
She told me she respects my views and of course she won’t be telling her siblings that she will be sharing a room with her boyfriend. Her boyfriend has an apartment not too far away and I’m very scared that if I continue to push this she’ll end up moving in with him.
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Hoosier_Daddy
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As a parent I would be disappointed. The trip to celebrate an accomplishment is marred because of a moral mistake. I would question her as to the financial wisdom of accepting my roof to live under and blowing money on this, not to mention saving for a life and wedding, and paying off school. I would also point out that it is a bad example to the younger siblings. BUT, I would not die on this hill. I would make my objections known and then move on. And on these boards, it is rare that I say that. I am usually an advocate for black and white morality and situations. However, past making it known that I am disappointed, I would also discuss this with the younger siblings. While it is a bad example she is setting, you can be just as powerful by showing and telling the younger kids that you are hurt and disappointing. " I love your sister and am so proud of what she has accomplished, but I am disappointed in her poor choice of this trip with her boyfriend. It isn’t the trip so much as her weakness with how we expected her to behave as an adult. Do you all understand why it is a poor choice and why it upsets me? Please mentor your sister but also keep in mind that sometimes we can learn from someone else’s bad example so we do not have to repeat it."
That ought to do it.
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Hoosier_Daddy
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I would express that I am disappointed that the education she received led her away from Truth and think that it was money spent on something that was too costly. Her faith is what it cost…Thank you everyone for their advice. I just had a talk with my daughter and I’ve learned a little bit more about her views regarding all of this. She doesn’t think sharing a room with her boyfriend nor living with him would be immoral.
She told me she respects my views and of course she won’t be telling her siblings that she will be sharing a room with her boyfriend. Her boyfriend has an apartment not too far away and I’m very scared that if I continue to push this she’ll end up moving in with him.
And I would also add that your daughter is right, it is none of your business if she is having sex, at her age, you should leave that alone. But also realize that of course she is having sex with him! What reason would she have not to? Her deep devout knowledge of the faith?
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pianistclare
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While I generally agree with much of this, I would NOT involve the siblings on any level.
They’ll “get” that you’re upset with her. But pitting one child against another is something that will drive a permanent wedge in the family. I’ve seen it happen. My mom put two of my sisters on the spot…complained about one to the other. To this day, one of them treats the other badly. She feels “justified” because she’s correcting some kind of cosmic wrong that the eldest did to mama. It’s really regrettable, but she feels like she is right, and her sister is wrong. These attitudes seldom go away. Particularly when a parent attempts to get the other children on their side. Now mama is gone, and the older sister is very ill, in need of support, and my middle sister just can’t muster up any sympathy. She emails me complaining…history repeats itself, but I’m participating in it at all. I love them both. I love mama, but she really wanted someone to agree with her, so she talked each of us down to the others. Bad bad idea.
I think the spirit of Hoosier’s post is to make it a teaching moment, which is a good idea.
Everyone will soon know what’s “going on” with big sis, and the family can bolster their beliefs with some talking about why we believe what we do.
The one thing that jumped out at me from the original post was the way the daughter spoke to her mother. She was defensive from the get-go, which indicates that she is fully aware that she has messed up, in the eyes of her family and the faith she was raised in. There is a chance that with some frank talking, lots of love, and gentle persuasion, she may reconsider. But anything aggressive in return will push her out of the faith permanently and cause her to feel alienated from the family. They need the family bond more than ever now. Maybe this guy is a nice guy with good intentions (marriage), but if not, she’s going to need her parents emotional support very soon.
Praying for everyone in this situation.
PS: maybe some statistics from a source other than Church regarding cohabitation.
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Hoosier_Daddy
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Actually, I went back and looked at the ages and there is quite a gap between siblings the next youngest is 12. So absolutely I agree with you and change my mind. If the other sibling was late teens like 17-19 then I might broach the subject not necessarily to pit a sibling against a sibling but rather to counter the bad example that would be fresh in a late teens mind as a graduation/ boyfriend time was coming up. But even a 16 year old will forget the entire circumstance of who stayed where in a few years.
Also, maybe the OP can suggest some religious sites in Europe to see. If not Italy itself there is much to view all over Europe that has such a deep religious past and it can be inspiring. The Uffizi, Rome, Vatican, Notre Dame, etc… Europe is full of the best of man praising God, I wish we could see it more, and I wish they knew what was in their own backyard.
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JimG
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While it is true that the parents have no control over the daughter’s actions at this point, I disagree that it is “none of their business.” When one family member rejects the morals with which she was raised, it affects the whole family, as well as friends and others close to the family. The danger is that her actions present a role model to her siblings—a teaching by example that is in opposition to what they have been taught. I do agree that one ought not to drive her away with condemnation. Neither should one provide bad teaching to the siblings by the appearance of condoning immoral action.
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pianistclare
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