College Daughter going on trip with BF

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I wouldn’t say anyone who posted here suggested the OP “throw her daughter out of her home.” The OP never suggested it. Another poster stated that in order to live in the family home, the children need to follow the set rules, and if they do not wish to, the adult children understand they are to make alternate living arrangements.

As stated by the poster who suggested it, the intention of having an adult child live elsewhere has nothing to do with hiding his or her activities or attempting to change his or her mind.

Exactly. And it is odd to me that people see it that way. Perhaps it is because some don’t recognize the daughter as sinning. As putting her soul in danger. But if you made it about drugs, if the daughter was a meth head, then the rule would be, “No meth or you must leave” Only an addict would look at that as being “thrown out to the wolves” It is a choice, live by the Rules or not.

But if you think about mortal sin, it is exponentially worse than Meth…

 

[Miss_Felicity]

Exactly. And it is odd to me that people see it that way. Perhaps it is because some don’t recognize the daughter as sinning. As putting her soul in danger. But if you made it about drugs, if the daughter was a meth head, then the rule would be, “No meth or you must leave” Only an addict would look at that as being “thrown out to the wolves” It is a choice, live by the Rules or not.

But if you think about mortal sin, it is exponentially worse than Meth…

That’s an apples and butternut squash analogy though. The OP’s daughter is NOT on drugs, she is a working soon to be college grad who has been a wonderful example to the younger siblings in all other things and has helped the family financially. I think asking her to leave is cutting off the OP’s nose to spite her face. Do we really want to show the younger children that no matter how much good you do if you do one thing mom disagrees with you are out. Is that really going to help?

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

That’s an apples and butternut squash analogy though. The OP’s daughter is NOT on drugs, she is a working soon to be college grad who has been a wonderful example to the younger siblings in all other things and has helped the family financially. I think asking her to leave is cutting off the OP’s nose to spite her face. Do we really want to show the younger children that no matter how much good you do if you do one thing mom disagrees with you are out. Is that really going to help?

Do you think the daughter has Grave matter with cohabitation and premarital sex? Regardless of her education?

 

[Miss_Felicity]

Do you think the daughter has Grave matter with cohabitation and premarital sex? Regardless of her education?

Do you think adults at the age of 21 should be able to make decisions about their faith, mortal soul, confession and free will? She is well beyond the age of reason and her parents are not and should not be responsible for her spiritual health.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Do you think adults at the age of 21 should be able to make decisions about their faith, mortal soul, confession and free will? She is well beyond the age of reason and her parents are not and should not be responsible for her spiritual health.

I can answer that question you asked me. Yes, an adult at 21 has free will to choose to sin or to be Holy. Of course. The obligation to honor your parents however does not end at 21. And dishonoring your parents while in their own house is ALSO another sin! As an adult, if you are renting somewhere any landlord can have certain rules for you to abide by. Perhaps the Landlord wants to have the tenant responsible for lawn care. He can, and if the tenant does not want to do that, they can find another place to live.

I have not come down on the side of kicking the daughter out. But I can see that it is an option that any parent should be able to employ if they have to. The fact that there are other kids in the house is problematic.

Now, can you answer my questions?

 

[Miss_Felicity]

I can answer that question you asked me. Yes, an adult at 21 has free will to choose to sin or to be Holy. Of course. The obligation to honor your parents however does not end at 21. And dishonoring your parents while in their own house is ALSO another sin! As an adult, if you are renting somewhere any landlord can have certain rules for you to abide by. Perhaps the Landlord wants to have the tenant responsible for lawn care. He can, and if the tenant does not want to do that, they can find another place to live.

I have not come down on the side of kicking the daughter out. But I can see that it is an option that any parent should be able to employ if they have to. The fact that there are other kids in the house is problematic.

Now, can you answer my questions?

I think we differ at the point where I think while I do think the daughter is sinning, she is going out of her way to not bring it into the mothers house. She isn’t having sex under mom’s roof. She even volunteered to make sure the younger siblings didn’t know she is sleeping in the same room with the boyfriend on vacation. I think she is doing her best to honor her mother. According to her faith, should she making other choices, yes but how is her being a good example and willingly keeping her not positive behaviors from minors a bad thing?

 

[Book_Worm]

I wouldn’t say anyone who posted here suggested the OP “throw her daughter out of her home.” The OP never suggested it. Another poster stated that in order to live in the family home, the children need to follow the set rules, and if they do not wish to, the adult children understand they are to make alternate living arrangements.

As stated by the poster who suggested it, the intention of having an adult child live elsewhere has nothing to do with hiding his or her activities or attempting to change his or her mind.

I phrased it that way deliberately because that is exactly how it will seem to the DD. I know it would be the way I would perceive it were I in the DD’s shoes.

Again I ask, what will be accomplished by having her leave? Will it change her behavior? Will it prevent the younger children from being aware of the actions of the DD? Will you ask another child to leave his/her home because they commit a sin?

 

[Book_Worm]

Exactly. And it is odd to me that people see it that way. Perhaps it is because some don’t recognize the daughter as sinning. As putting her soul in danger. But if you made it about drugs, if the daughter was a meth head, then the rule would be, “No meth or you must leave” Only an addict would look at that as being “thrown out to the wolves” It is a choice, live by the Rules or not.

But if you think about mortal sin, it is exponentially worse than Meth…

I am very much aware of the sin involved. Ask my DD what the consequences would have been if she had told me she intended to live with a man before marriage.

However, I think that removing her from my influence and putting her in a position where she can justify a permanent cohabitation arrangement is counterproductive, to say the least.

And there is a big difference between having someone under the influence of drugs in my home and having someone there who may be committing a sin away from my family. The situations are in no way similar.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

Thank you for sharing, I believe we agree on principal here at least.

I believe, and I believe that the original poster may be struggling that this is NOT going to be kept private from her minor children. Otherwise the struggle would not be so great. I am 100% certain that my adult children did many other things that I was not aware of and that my young children were not aware of and I am grateful for that.

You and I seem to agree that a parent should be able to keep certain closely morally held beliefs out of the home of minor children. I believe that allowing “sleep overs” is bringing that into the home, you do not that’s all. I can tell you that once an adult is allowed to stay all night at a boyfriends it will continue. Young children see that, and it is difficult to tell them it is a moral sin if they see their older siblings staying out/staying over regularly. Just as it would be difficult to tell a child eating meat is violence while watching an older sibling eating steak in their own home regularly.

We probably won’t agree on how a parent would implement this, just that they have the right to keep their home a place as they see fit for their minor children as they see fit that’s all.

Again, this is not meat in the house, it’s meat in Europe.

You seem to be forgetting that parenting has 2 parts: raising the child with the family’s values AND helping them understand that not everyone shares those values. Even people we love sometimes make choices that we don’t agree with. Veganism is counter cultural. So is chastity. If you’re going to raise children with counter cultural values, then you also have to teach them how to be one of a few with those values-even when it means that they’re one of a few out of the people they love.

 

[Book_Worm]

I can answer that question you asked me. Yes, an adult at 21 has free will to choose to sin or to be Holy. Of course. The obligation to honor your parents however does not end at 21. And dishonoring your parents while in their own house is ALSO another sin! As an adult, if you are renting somewhere any landlord can have certain rules for you to abide by. Perhaps the Landlord wants to have the tenant responsible for lawn care. He can, and if the tenant does not want to do that, they can find another place to live.

I have not come down on the side of kicking the daughter out. But I can see that it is an option that any parent should be able to employ if they have to. The fact that there are other kids in the house is problematic.

Now, can you answer my questions?

Another false analogy. The landlord can make conditions as to the tenant’s behavior while on his premises. He cannot dictate to a tenant what they do anywhere else unless it has a direct impact on his property.

And a parent certainly can employ this tactic if he chooses to. What I am questioning is the wisdom and effectiveness of using it.

I have a relative who faced a similar situation with her oldest son, who moved out and lived with his GF. They eventually married and now have three children. What the younger children learn? That if they disobey their parents, they will be asked to leave so they didn’t disobey them? No, they saw that DS1 moved out and lived happily ever after. Consequently, only one did not live with their SO before marriage. Five did.

I don’t think that’s the result the OP wants.

 

[Aggie414]

I personally would not make a big deal about it – she’s being responsible to not let her younger siblings know what goes on and the only reason mom knows is because mom asked and the daughter answered her truthfully. It’s not like the daughter was bragging about it and talking about it incessantly.

I also see it as there’s been a blurring of the lines here – this daughter appears to be extremely responsible: Paying for her own way in school (albeit with a scholarship) and not asking her parents for any support – as a matter of fact she’s been providing support to her family which is a very generous and loving thing to do and is a great example to her younger siblings. If the OP chooses to go to war over this, then there will be consequences of that – not right or wrong – and they’ll need to be prepared to not accept any support from their oldest daughter – no financial support, no babysitting, et cetera.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Another false analogy. The landlord can make conditions as to the tenant’s behavior while on his premises. He cannot dictate to a tenant what they do anywhere else unless it has a direct impact on his property.

And a parent certainly can employ this tactic if he chooses to. What I am questioning is the wisdom and effectiveness of using it.

I have a relative who faced a similar situation with her oldest son, who moved out and lived with his GF. They eventually married and now have three children. What the younger children learn? That if they disobey their parents, they will be asked to leave so they didn’t disobey them? No, they saw that DS1 moved out and lived happily ever after. Consequently, only one did not live with their SO before marriage. Five did.

I don’t think that’s the result the OP wants.

Sigh* It is not SUPPOSED to be a perfect analogy. Geesh.:banghead:

I agree it is not the most wise choice here by the parent. There are situations where it is. I bet we agree 100 percent.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

It is important to note, that while it really does not need to be made a big deal of. It is kind of a big deal., The daughter is staring at Hell. No parent wants that for their child. This shoulder shrug of “whats the big deal get with the modern world man” Is concerning. It is a failure on the daughter, yes, but also a failure on the parent. None of us want to be disappointed in our child. Especially with their faith. Because that is what the Number One goal is. To raise saints. That is what we commit to when we become co creators with God of little lives. And when the sheep goes astray, it hurts. It hurts big time. And anyone who cannot see that it is really a big deal either is dealing with guilt of failure as a parent or guilt of dissapointment as a child. And we all feel those feelings, but that should not cloud the reality and severity of the situation. As a parent be it of a 2 year old or a 52 year old we have responsibility and love of our children. And as children ourselves of God the Father, we must recognize when one of our own is lacking or starving. Or hooked on the meth of a modern culture of death and immorality that will lead to the ultimate death.

 

[JimG]

It is sad that the OP as well as other parents are faced with this situation. It’s sad if the daughter sees this as merely a matter of disagreeing with one of mom’s rules rather than God’s rules. It’s disheartening that she doesn’t see how her actions will contribute to putting her siblings moral lives at risk, and put her own future happiness at risk.

The fact that she helps with family finances is commendable. But in reality, any child over the age of 18 ought to be paying rent or contributing to the household, while also not engaging in actions that endanger the souls of their siblings.

 

[Book_Worm]

It is important to note, that while it really does not need to be made a big deal of. It is kind of a big deal., The daughter is staring at Hell. No parent wants that for their child. This shoulder shrug of “whats the big deal get with the modern world man” Is concerning. It is a failure on the daughter, yes, but also a failure on the parent. None of us want to be disappointed in our child. Especially with their faith. Because that is what the Number One goal is. To raise saints. That is what we commit to when we become co creators with God of little lives. And when the sheep goes astray, it hurts. It hurts big time. And anyone who cannot see that it is really a big deal either is dealing with guilt of failure as a parent or guilt of dissapointment as a child. And we all feel those feelings, but that should not cloud the reality and severity of the situation. As a parent be it of a 2 year old or a 52 year old we have responsibility and love of our children. And as children ourselves of God the Father, we must recognize when one of our own is lacking or starving. Or hooked on the meth of a modern culture of death and immorality that will lead to the ultimate death.

I agree it is a big deal. And it does hurt when we see our children following a path that will hurt them in the end. Parenthood ain’t for sissies. (My DD told me that this morning when discussing an issue with her four-year-old. As if I didn’t already know that.)

I just don’t agree with the idea of asking the DD to leave her home as others have suggested. I think you have a better chance of influencing someone if you are physically close to her than you would by distancing and alienating her.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I agree it is a big deal. And it does hurt when we see our children following a path that will hurt them in the end. Parenthood ain’t for sissies. (My DD told me that this morning when discussing an issue with her four-year-old. As if I didn’t already know that.)

I just don’t agree with the idea of asking the DD to leave her home as others have suggested. I think you have a better chance of influencing someone if you are physically close to her than you would by distancing and alienating her.

IN THIS SITUATION I have stated that it is not a good idea to ask her to leave.

However, there are situations where it is a good idea and those situations probably come along more often than people realize. And I don’t think that it should just be let go either. The daughter needs instruction. She is capable of learning, she has proven that. So why is her faith failing? A parents job never ends with that.

 

[phil19034]

I think we differ at the point where I think while I do think the daughter is sinning, she is going out of her way to not bring it into the mothers house. She isn’t having sex under mom’s roof. She even volunteered to make sure the younger siblings didn’t know she is sleeping in the same room with the boyfriend on vacation. I think she is doing her best to honor her mother. According to her faith, should she making other choices, yes but how is her being a good example and willingly keeping her not positive behaviors from minors a bad thing?

I don’t think this is a matter of what the daughter has done or is currently doing. It’s a matter of what the daughter MIGHT do when she returns.

After returning from Europe, (assuming she’s having sexual relations) she might want to spend the night at her boyfriend’s house. The younger children might not pick up on one “slumber party” a month, on a Friday or Saturday night, but they will pick up on it when it’s often or on a “school night”

Or when she goes out and comes back the next morning wearing the same clothes.

This issue here is the sin of scandal. If the daughter is going to keep her sexual sins (again assuming a sexual relationship) hidden from her siblings, then there is less of a problem.

But if it becomes scandalous, then it’s important to remove the scandal.

Finally, we 21st Century folks must realize what the sin of scandal is. If my actions lead someone to believe I’m sinning, and they use my supposed example as a reason to justify in their heads that their actions are OK, I commit the sin of scandal. Even if I’m not guilty of the sin.

For example: If I was single and living with a girl in a studio apartment and we remained chaste; I would still be committing scandal because everyone would assume I was not chaste and my younger siblings would want to follow in my footsteps.

Which by the way happened to me… my wife and I lived together in a studio apartment with one bed… while we were NOT chaste, we never spoke about sex. But naturally, everyone assumed we had sex and I strongly believe that our bad example led my younger siblings, cousins & mother-in-law to co-habitation and sexual sin.

 

[phil19034]

I phrased it that way deliberately because that is exactly how it will seem to the DD. I know it would be the way I would perceive it were I in the DD’s shoes.

Again I ask, what will be accomplished by having her leave? Will it change her behavior? Will it prevent the younger children from being aware of the actions of the DD? Will you ask another child to leave his/her home because they commit a sin?

It’s not about committing sins. It’s about having a scandalous situation in the home. When adult children spend the night at their boyfriend/girlfriend’s homes, you don’t know about it if they are not living at home (unless they talk about it). But if they are living at home, then the kids know, even if it’s not discussed.

The whole conversation about asking the daughter to leave the house is not based on the trip, it’s based on the possibility of her wanting to spend the night out with her boyfriend after she returns.

Asking an adult child to move out isn’t about convincing the adult child to stop sinning, it’s an attempt to hide the sin from younger children still at home.

God Bless.

 

[Book_Worm]

Or she might not.

Everything the OP has said about her DD indicates that her DD has been respectful of her home and its rules. In my world, charity leads me to think the best of someone until they give me reason to think otherwise.

I would not take steps to avoid scandal when none exists.

My nieces and nephews all lived with their spouses before marriage, as did a few other relatives. DD never did. I’d like to think that our often-voiced and unequivocal opposition to the practice had more impact on her than their example did.

 

[Book_Worm]

It’s not about committing sins. It’s about having a scandalous situation in the home. When adult children spend the night at their boyfriend/girlfriend’s homes, you don’t know about it if they are not living at home (unless they talk about it). But if they are living at home, then the kids know, even if it’s not discussed.

The whole conversation about asking the daughter to leave the house is not based on the trip, it’s based on the possibility of her wanting to spend the night out with her boyfriend after she returns.

Asking an adult child to move out isn’t about convincing the adult child to stop sinning, it’s an attempt to hide the sin from younger children still at home.

God Bless.

If that possibility occurs, that’s when you deal with it.

And the most likely outcome would probably be the DD moving in with her BF, which will make the sin more obvious to the children, not less.

If you accuse the DD of committing the sin of scandal when she has not actually done so, it’s just human nature to think, “If I’ve got the name, I might as well play the game.”