College Daughter going on trip with BF

[Aggie414]

She has the right to make her own choices, and the parents have the right to make theirs, including how they are going to react to their daughter.

And on that we can agree

 

[pianistclare]

And no one – not even a mother – has the right to ask such personal question of another adult – especially not one living on their own and paying their own expenses. And tone has everything to do with whether the daughter was being a snot.

This is not about her “rights” as a woman. This is about her rights to live her life as she sees fit as an adult!! If her parents were supporting her, the parents would be well within their rights to no longer support her if she was making decisions outside of their value system, but they’re NOT supporting her. She’s supporting herself. If they choose not to let her move in with them for the last little bit of her education, that’s their choice and their right. And if she does live with them, the daughter has the obligation to follow the family rules. But that’s not what this is about. This is about an adult making decisions for her own life.

This must be a cultural thing. I’m never going to stop asking question pertaining to my child’s welfare. It’s not being nosy, or prying, It’s caring.
if they want to get mad, fine. But I will always inquire.
No apologies.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

Wow. Any daughter of mine, no matter the age, that says to me “it’s none of your business” is considered a little snot.
Period.
Children no matter the age do not get to speak to their parents this way.
They don’t. And if you allow it your home, get ready for years of unhappiness., smart aleck remarks, and mouthy grandchildren. Honestly, what has our society devolved to?

So as long as she hides her immoral behavior it’s OK?
Wow.
Does anybody even CARE about the young girl?
It seems to be all about her “rights” as a woman. Where have we heard all this before?

Care about her or her immortal soul? Naw, that is just judgmental theology, Pope Francis changed all that…

 

[Meagan34]

Thank you for your responses!

Looking at some of the responses regarding me asking her if she was having sex, along with her response, I believe I owe her an apology for prying like that into her personal life. Yes I am her parent and yes I want her well being, but as children get older the relationship between parent and child also changes, especially if the child is now a self supporting adult. I don’t know how this turned into a women’s rights issue because I don’t remember ever mentioning that… My daughter is not snarky and has great respect for me and my husband. She has always been a strong willed child but she was raised to speak with respect toward everyone.

Regarding this being a “sleepover” issue, I’m not really understanding what is meant by that. She’s had to “sleepover” at college, at retreats, at school club trips and many other events. She does regularly come to visit during school and she is very involved in activities (she needed this b/c she was applying to Law School, which she will be attending in a year) so she is always in and out of the house which is why we are happy she’s home again before she leaves for law school again. My younger children are used to her always having to be away for short term or long term reasons.

I discussed things a little further with my daughter regarding her living arrangements at home and of course even she considers the “morning/noon walk of shame in the last nights outfit” unacceptable and she will not be spending the night and David’s (her bf) and coming back the next morning. She will be telling her siblings she’s going with “a group of friends” to Europe.

I can’t say I’m happy, or even satisfied, I would prefer that she take other girlfriends along with her on the trip or just go with them instead, but how much control can one have on an adult child? I will be speaking with a priest in the morning, and I will share what he has to say but thank for all the responses! I sincerely took every one to heart and thought out all of your advice. I will welcome any other (name removed by moderator)ut because this is really a difficult situation to deal with.

 

[JimG]

Thank you for your responses!

Looking at some of the responses regarding me asking her if she was having sex, along with her response, I believe I owe her an apology for prying like that into her personal life. Yes I am her parent and yes I want her well being, but as children get older the relationship between parent and child also changes, especially if the child is now a self supporting adult. I don’t know how this turned into a women’s rights issue because I don’t remember ever mentioning that… My daughter is not snarky and has great respect for me and my husband. She has always been a strong willed child but she was raised to speak with respect toward everyone.

Regarding this being a “sleepover” issue, I’m not really understanding what is meant by that. She’s had to “sleepover” at college, at retreats, at school club trips and many other events. She does regularly come to visit during school and she is very involved in activities (she needed this b/c she was applying to Law School, which she will be attending in a year) so she is always in and out of the house which is why we are happy she’s home again before she leaves for law school again. My younger children are used to her always having to be away for short term or long term reasons.

I discussed things a little further with my daughter regarding her living arrangements at home and of course even she considers the “morning/noon walk of shame in the last nights outfit” unacceptable and she will not be spending the night and David’s (her bf) and coming back the next morning. She will be telling her siblings she’s going with “a group of friends” to Europe.

I can’t say I’m happy, or even satisfied, I would prefer that she take other girlfriends along with her on the trip or just go with them instead, but how much control can one have on an adult child? I will be speaking with a priest in the morning, and I will share what he has to say but thank for all the responses! I sincerely took every one to heart and thought out all of your advice. I will welcome any other (name removed by moderator)ut because this is really a difficult situation to deal with.

I will pray for you no matter which way you handle it. Sometimes it seems to me that the responses to a question like yours can be so confusing that it might be overwhelming to sort out for the one asking!

 

[SecretGarden]

I can see your concern but she is 21 so your best bet is to trust her. I would speak to your daughter as a loving mother and see what their plans are. Don’t jump to conclusions. For economics sake, they might be sharing the same room but have separate beds. Europe is notoriously expensive so it might be the only way they can afford the trip.

If you are really worried, sneak in a small box of condoms into her bag just in case. I know the church isn’t in favour of them but as a safety precaution, pack them and put a note on them that says “Love Mom, I trust you.” That itself when she finds them will give her the hint if any temptation arises. She could get angry or realize that you love her. Sometimes it’s best to not interfere and let her live her life.

 

[KendraDZ1902]

If you are really worried, sneak in a small box of condoms into her bag just in case. I know the church isn’t in favour of them but as a safety precaution, pack them and put a note on them that says “Love Mom, I trust you.” That itself when she finds them will give her the hint if any temptation arises. She could get angry or realize that you love her. Sometimes it’s best to not interfere and let her live her life.

Wait, what?! Now, I can see setting ground rules for your home like, no sex in this house. But giving your child condoms is totally promoting premarital sex. Ew.

 

[JayJayBeeBee]

I have to say that I am in kind of a similar life situation as your daughter in that I am about to graduate from college in May, and have a job lined up as well. It’s a huge accomplishment and definitely worth celebrating. Be sure to let her know how proud you are of her accomplishments!

That being said, my first thought when I read your post was that most likely there’s premarital sex going on, or in the works. I am new to the Church and prior to that I was sexually active–and I’ve never been married. I took several trips with guys I was dating or even was “just friends” with and I always had sex with them. However, I don’t want to judge your daughter or her boyfriend (especially by the standard of who I once was, especially considering that our Blessed Mother was married to St. Joseph but remained a virgin), as your daughter and her boyfriend seem to be a lot more mature in their faith than I am, or was.

That being said, if I had started college as a Catholic and had a Catholic boyfriend of four years, I would marry him rather than risk falling into sexual sin. I have a cradle Catholic friend who recently had sex with her boyfriend from high school, and as we talked it became clear that their desire was to get married but hormones and the heat of the moment kicked in… Have you discussed marriage with your daughter? Would you honestly be okay with them getting married? I know that our society tends to discourage marriage but none of those societal norms are what the Church teaches about the sacrament of marriage.

Since she’s your oldest child, is there a possibility that she perceives you as treating her as if she is less than an adult? Does she know that you will love her no matter what she decides? Have you discussed her marrying her boyfriend?

If I were in her situation, these open discussions what I would want, particularly a discussion of marriage to her boyfriend.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

If you are really worried, sneak in a small box of condoms into her bag just in case. I know the church isn’t in favour of them but as a safety precaution, pack them and put a note on them that says “Love Mom, I trust you.” That itself when she finds them will give her the hint if any temptation arises. She could get angry or realize that you love her. Sometimes it’s best to not interfere and let her live her life.

condoms?! Worst answer from a Catholic imaginable…

Shame shame.

 

[slh3016]

She will be telling her siblings she’s going with “a group of friends” to Europe.

So now she is committing another sin by lying/deceiving her siblings and you seem to approve of this to avoid a scandal…so now you are culpable in this entire thing

You owe your daughter an apology. You and your husband allowed her to help you financially and placed both her and you in a no-win situation. This would be a non-issue if she were living an independent life in which her scandalous behavior had no direct implications for her siblings. Even if neither of you realize/admit it, she now feels entitled to do whatever the heck she pleases and you feel guilty for bringing her poor choices to light because now, you have no leverage.

The lines have been blurred in this relationship and there is no easy solution. If she truly feels that she is doing nothing wrong, why is she agreeing to keep it mum from her siblings? Gross hypocrisy on her part.

Also, what happens if sister comes home pregnant? You sure can’t keep that scandal a secret then from the siblings, can you? What will the siblings think/know then? Big sis DIDN’T go with a group of girls, she lied, and Mom knew she lied. Your credibility then tanks.

And really, the only other alternative to the pregnancy hypothetical situation is too ghastly to think about. I suppose nearly all abortions happen because of the fear of scandal

I’m not saying this to demean you or your daughter, who sounds like a lovely young woman. If she is as reasonable and level-headed as you say, you both need to sit down and talk out the entire thing AND what kinds of ramifications/consequences could result. Hopefully, she will come to either a) she needs to move out and establish her independence prior to this trip, or b) she needs to get married before the trip, or c) she needs to cancel/postpone the trip, or d) make it a girls only trip.

Ask HER what she would require if this was HER own daughter. I have a BFF that lived with her husband before marriage and saw nothing wrong with it UNTIL she had children of her own. She’s said before that she dreads the day she has to explain that to her children and she prays that they do not desire to follow their parents’ footsteps

You might also raise the question about what she will do if the warts of her BF start to show while they are stuck in the middle of Europe sharing a room and she realizes that he is not “the one”…I’m sure he is going into this trip with a certain level of expectation

 

[LongingSoul]

condoms?! Worst answer from a Catholic imaginable…

Shame shame.

She’s only a recent Catholic and probably warrants more charitable correction from us blessed enough to have had a lifetime of Catholic education.

 

[Meagan34]

After talking with the priest today I definitely clarified a lot of things.

First off, yes my daughter and her boyfriend have been together all through their years at college, he’s regularly at family events and is pretty much a member of this family. I’m pretty sure there won’t be any “warts that pop up” out of no where that didn’t in the last four years and if they do well, is that not the point of dating? And I would certainly want her to be able to come home if that were the case. Yes they have thought about marriage but it’s something they want to hold off until after grad school and I have no plans on rushing into a marriage either. If she comes home pregnant, well she comes home pregnant. From college, a day trip, studying abroad etc people don’t only get pregnant in Europe and they don’t only get pregnant at night, and it’s also not a reason for me to kick her out. If for any reason she feels the need for an abortion because of the fear that her own mother will shame her, only then will I have truly failed her as her mother and as a Catholic.

If I wanted to completely shield my younger children away from every unmarried couple living together, I might as well not even let them go outside, much less to family events with their aunts, uncles and cousins. I’m not banking 100% on anything because nothing is ever certain. Will they find out? Most likely. Will they ask why? I certainly hope so because I’d rather explain to them on their own time rather than try to pretend mistakes don’t happen. Each of my children deserve their own tailored explanation that fits their age, personality, and learning style because what satisfies a six year old will not satisfy a 12 year old and vice versa. If they wish to spend the night at someone else’s house (of the opposite sex) they may do so when they have proven themselves to be respectful, responsible, financially independent adults.

I am an adult and I get to decide my house rules. My house rules apply to what goes on in my house. My daughter has agreed to respect my house rules and I want to respect her free will to make choices for herself while she is not in my house, just like she has also agreed to understanding that if my house rules are not respected then she is free to live elsewhere. She is an adult and has proven herself to be responsible enough for me not to have to blackmail her just because she sleeps in my home. Will I agree with every choice she makes? No. Will I ask her to leave just because I don’t? No. Can I? Yes, at any time I feel this arrangement is not working out. As of now, this won’t be any longer than one full school year (last semester, plus a semester off) since she’s looking for apartments near the law school she plans to attend.

Thank you again for everyone’s (name removed by moderator)ut and prayers are very much appreciated. For me in this new stage of parenting, my family and my eldest daughter as she enters this new chapter in her life. Especially right now because she’s up reading to our youngest that currently has a bad cold so I can get a bit sleep.

 

[Xantippe]

After talking with the priest today I definitely clarified a lot of things.

First off, yes my daughter and her boyfriend have been together all through their years at college, he’s regularly at family events and is pretty much a member of this family. I’m pretty sure there won’t be any “warts that pop up” out of no where that didn’t in the last four years and if they do well, is that not the point of dating? And I would certainly want her to be able to come home if that were the case. Yes they have thought about marriage but it’s something they want to hold off until after grad school and I have no plans on rushing into a marriage either. If she comes home pregnant, well she comes home pregnant. From college, a day trip, studying abroad etc people don’t only get pregnant in Europe and they don’t only get pregnant at night, and it’s also not a reason for me to kick her out. If for any reason she feels the need for an abortion because of the fear that her own mother will shame her, only then will I have truly failed her as her mother and as a Catholic.

If I wanted to completely shield my younger children away from every unmarried couple living together, I might as well not even let them go outside, much less to family events with their aunts, uncles and cousins. I’m not banking 100% on anything because nothing is ever certain. Will they find out? Most likely. Will they ask why? I certainly hope so because I’d rather explain to them on their own time rather than try to pretend mistakes don’t happen. Each of my children deserve their own tailored explanation that fits their age, personality, and learning style because what satisfies a six year old will not satisfy a 12 year old and vice versa. If they wish to spend the night at someone else’s house (of the opposite sex) they may do so when they have proven themselves to be respectful, responsible, financially independent adults.

I am an adult and I get to decide my house rules. My house rules apply to what goes on in my house. My daughter has agreed to respect my house rules and I want to respect her free will to make choices for herself while she is not in my house, just like she has also agreed to understanding that if my house rules are not respected then she is free to live elsewhere. She is an adult and has proven herself to be responsible enough for me not to have to blackmail her just because she sleeps in my home. Will I agree with every choice she makes? No. Will I ask her to leave just because I don’t? No. Can I? Yes, at any time I feel this arrangement is not working out. As of now, this won’t be any longer than one full school year (last semester, plus a semester off) since she’s looking for apartments near the law school she plans to attend.

Thank you again for everyone’s (name removed by moderator)ut and prayers are very much appreciated. For me in this new stage of parenting, my family and my eldest daughter as she enters this new chapter in her life. Especially right now because she’s up reading to our youngest that currently has a bad cold so I can get a bit sleep.

I think what you’ve arrived at are some defensible boundaries. I mean both defensible in the sense that it’s not hard to make the argument for them, and defensible in the sense that you’ll find these particular boundaries relatively easy to stick with, because you’re not trying to control things that aren’t really under your control.

Best wishes!

 

[phil19034]

IF the OP decides to kick out DD she needs to realize that DD would be paying her own bills, not that households. DD wouldn’t be required to babysit, or have anything to do with the family.
Also, if I was kicked out of the house and boyfriend lived close, that’s where I would have ended up. That’s the easiest place to go. Doesn’t seem like kicking her out will be very productive. It might even make it to where the family is homeless because they can’t afford the mortgage.

And this is a very fair point. Which is why it’s best for parents and adult children to figure out a solution together rather than simply kicking the adult child out.

 

[phil19034]

So now she is committing another sin by lying/deceiving her siblings and you seem to approve of this to avoid a scandal…so now you are culpable in this entire thing

I white venial lie is better than committing the sin of scandal, which is a mortal sin.

Obviously, it would be better if friends were going along; but sometimes we need to choose the lesser of two evils. We don’t always have the luxury of choosing between just good and evil. Sometimes the options we have are both objectively evil and we must select the lesser of two evils.

This is the Catholic teaching of “cooperation with evil”

Also, what happens if sister comes home pregnant? You sure can’t keep that scandal a secret then from the siblings, can you? What will the siblings think/know then? Big sis DIDN’T go with a group of girls, she lied, and Mom knew she lied. Your credibility then tanks.

The daughter said “a group of friends” not a “group of girlfriends.” Which means boys could very well be attending. The white lie is simply changing the number of friends from 1 to multiple. If the daughter gets pregnant (God forbid) then it would be no different than if she got pregnant at college in the eyes of the younger children. Mom is off the hook as long as daughter and mom don’t let the younger kids know that mom knew the facts. The goal is to REDUCE scandal and avoid it as much as possible. But we can’t protect our children from it 100%. I agree it’s not an ideal situation and there is always a potential outcome of things getting worse when lies are involved, but sometimes we must make tough choices.

Ask HER what she would require if this was HER own daughter. I have a BFF that lived with her husband before marriage and saw nothing wrong with it UNTIL she had children of her own. She’s said before that she dreads the day she has to explain that to her children and she prays that they do not desire to follow their parents’ footsteps

This is good advice. This describes me to a T. My wife and I lived together before getting married. I never want my children to know this fact and I hope I can keep it from them (at least until they are married). My grandmother got pregnant at 17, before she was married. She even got married in a gray suit. I never knew until I was in my 20s. I used to be told that women used to get married in gray suits back then, and I believe it even though my other grandmother was married in a beautiful white dress. And I would have NEVER figured out about my grandmother in my 20s if my dad didn’t simply tell me. Children don’t look for the faults of their parents and grandparents. But when they learn them, they usually come to believe those faults are not evil. So this is why it’s important to keep our skeletons in the closets.

God Bless.
God Bless.

 

[JimG]

The daughter and boyfriend have been together for four years. They have thought about marriage but want to delay it. This whole business of delaying marriage indefinitely seems mistaken to me. But I’m not involved here.

 

[Xantippe]

The daughter and boyfriend have been together for four years. They have thought about marriage but want to delay it. This whole business of delaying marriage indefinitely seems mistaken to me. But I’m not involved here.

Well, that may simply be a sign that this is not a good match.

Also, 21 is young, four years or no four years.

 

[aloe]

She is telling her siblings that for you. Not for her, not because she has anything she wants to hide. She could have lied to you but didn’t, she was honest with you. She wants to have a honest relationship with you despite you not agreeing with the choices she makes, even though she sounds like a really great person and a really great adult daughter. No one is perfect and no one makes the same decisions as their parents would at every season in life. Given your adult daughter is an overall wonderful person as far as a long term relationship with her it would be a relationship builder for your assumptions to place her in the best light in your mind if she is not directly asking you for your values and advice. You sound like a great and caring mom. I hope your relationship continues to be richly blessed and grow closer over the years. A warm and caring mother/daughter bond can be one of the biggest blessings in life to both parties.

 

[LongingSoul]

A warm and caring mother/daughter bond can be one of the biggest blessings in life to both parties.

Truer words could never be spoken.

 

[KendraDZ1902]

The daughter and boyfriend have been together for four years. They have thought about marriage but want to delay it. This whole business of delaying marriage indefinitely seems mistaken to me. But I’m not involved here.

Hubby and I didn’t get married until almost 4 years, and we were both older than 21. I have a sorority sister who has just become engaged and they have been dating 6 years.
She’s 21 and still in school. I don’t see it as a good time to get married. It isn’t like she is established and in her 30s. Good grief.