College - goes in Catholic comes out Atheist

[Jean_Anthony]

It’s too soon to close this thread for going off topic and I’m not going to try to separate posts paragraph by paragraph. Please, everyone, be considerate of the OP’s topic and stay on it. Take side discussions to new or existing threads. Thank you, all.

 

[JBassist17]

Getting things a bit more back on topic, I find it interesting that your daughter’s boyfriend lost his faith after going to school, as I have had the exact opposite experience. I have a B.A. in Theology and a B.A. in Philosophy and am currently working on my M.A. in Church History, and I’ve actually found that the more I learn, the more my faith grows. I think a lot of this question depends on the breadth of sources one is learning from. It would be easy to read Christopher Hitchens cold turkey and become a staunch atheist, but it’s quite another thing to read Hitchens in addition to Aquinas, Ratzinger, and Bonaventure and still be convinced. What has Athens to do with Jerusalem? Quite a lot, actually.

 

[Et_Cetera]

A correction – morals and values are in no way contrary to atheism. Just about every atheist I know is a good person and has a strong relationship with his/her family.

We just don’t agree with one specific belief.

If you don’t mind a nonbeliever’s opinion, I would recommend not coming on too strongly to this young man, as you could end up pushing him further away. Instead, I think the best “argument” you could make is simply living the teachings of Christ and letting your actions speak for you.

You’re unlikely to convince him intellectually anyway, and you’ll probably be more successful (or at least not alienate him) if you don’t make him feel like you’re pressuring him to agree with you.

This is a good post.

 

[Dameedna]

Edited: went off topic.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

MegaTherion

Statistically, the number of atheists in prison is much, much lower than the number of believers in prison. It’s hardly perfect data, and it doesn’t prove anything in and of itself, but it would at least appear that atheists commit crime at a lower rate than the rest of the general population.

There are lies, damned lies, and statistics." Mark Twain

You have been influenced by statistics that do not accurately report the actual conditions inside any prison. Have you been in a prison? Hardly a tenth of the population of any prison attend chapel services or have dealings with chaplains. These people are a-theists … “without-God.” Many were baptized in a church when they were young or know their parents’ religion, so when asked, they answer accordingly. Statistics are then reported that do not accurately reflect the religious conviction of the prisoners. I put it to you that the vast majority of prisoners are atheists … they have lived openly ungodly lives and that is why they are in prison. That is common sense, but no doubt you will prefer the statistics that suggest Christians are really the killers, thieves, rapists of the world and atheists are “holier than thou.”

That’s a damning comment on the quality of the Christianity of those who brought them up. And, yes, Christians do have a lot of blood on their hands ​

 

[1holycatholic]

“Goes in CINO comes out atheist” seems more likely.

 

[coco2]

My children have also stopped going to church since they went off to college. My daughter lived in the town she grew up in and continued to go, but stopped after she graduated. She actually seems angry that she had to grow up going to church and praying at home. ( She seemed fine with when she was doing it) My son stopped going to Mass his Freshman year. Another daughter who is in college has stopped going to Catholic church and is going to the Episcopal church. This is heartbreaking. These kids grew up very active in the church, Mass every week, nightly prayer, all activities for families and kids etc. We are heartbroken. Everyone keeps telling me they are “rooted” and will return. But we all know, sometimes they don’t.

 

[JimG]

Books such as Ask Me Anything, Ask Me Anything 2, and How to Stay Christian in College, as well as Fish Out of Water, are helpful to students who enter college firm in the Christian faith and wish to keep it.

I don’t think, though, that they are much help to students who enter college with only a precarious hold on their faith. There have been some in my own family who entered college, I thought, firmly Catholic–after all, we all grew up in a staunch Catholic family, and yet came out of college agnostic, atheist, or of other denominations.

Religious education in grade school and high school has gotten better, but there was a period of time in which Catholic students in Catholic schools or PSR programs simply didn’t learn or live Catholicism. Parents assumed the youngest kid was getting the same religious education that the oldest kid had received. But he wasn’t. The result was that child entered college practically non-Catholic or minimally Catholic. Books on keeping your kid Catholic won’t help that.

 

[punkforchrist]

Hi there,

There seems to be much written and discussed about the problem of young students going into college with faith and coming out thinking faith is for the uneducated and ignorant.

Where can I find the resouces to undo or to help undo what’s been done?

My daughter’s boyfriend has morals and values, which seem to be contrary to atheism, but no longer believes in God after a few years in college.

He’s been given books, but that takes effort. Are there any good Internet videos that can help get the message accross?

And are there any tools that my daughter can use to help her “bring him back”? We are all praying and expecting and hoping that it won’t take too long.

He would make a great husband and father, but without faith, I don’t believe they could make it and I fear, my daughter would end up losing her faith.

It is easier to pull someone down than to pull someone up.
Thanks

Check out William Lane Craig’s website: reasonablefaith.org

There are audio/video debates available on there. In my opinion, the best debate he’s had (on both sides) is this one with Austin Dacey: veritas.org/media/talks/147

Blessings

 

[Appleby]

Lots of university students go through this phase when feelingi superior to their parents is the centre of their universe. Most of us came home from university for our first holiday thinking our parents were the most ignorant people on earth, and it was amazing in four years how much they learned.

There is also the Herd Instinct left over from high school when the one thing that matters on earth is being Popular regardless of what you have to do to maintain that coveted status. If a temporary superiority complex is the worst he exhibits, be thankful. Currently these Superior Atheists are preparing a campaign on the buses and trains (to go in between the ads for Sex for Life and contraception) that there is probably no God so enjoy your life. Most people are treating this as an annoyance rather than an attack on our faith. Some of us have asked them that if the girl they pick up tonight says she probably does not have AIDS, is that going to be good enough for you?

 

[JPUSC]

Yes, this discussion about prisons is off track for the moment, yet it can be related to the question of the thread.

White collar crime is on the increase. In the business world (which many prepare for by going to college) there is an accelerating sense that an education without moral values is a very dangerous thing. But in academia there is hardly any effort to connect intellect with moral values because then you get close to the question of how it is possible to have ethics without God. Professors do not want to go there. The largely secular (atheist) mindset of college professors is to mock religion when they think they are sure of getting away with it.

This is not to say that everyone who goes to college is going to come out an atheist or a criminal, but it is easy to see why more and more are not coming out Christians. If business ethics continue to decline as they have, it is difficult to see why anyone would want to send their sons and daughters into such a world where they will be easy prey for the sharks … first on campus and later off.

I agree with the business ethics issue. I knew quite a few business majors in college and was quite taken aback by their moral values and perspective on life.

By the way, I think the term they use now for people who may believe in a God, but may not be practicing a religion or honoring God is Agnostic. I learned that in college too, haha.

 

[agbasinger]

Statistically, the number of atheists in prison is much, much lower than the number of believers in prison. It’s hardly perfect data, and it doesn’t prove anything in and of itself, but it would at least appear that atheists commit crime at a lower rate than the rest of the general population.

I am going to challenge you on your conclusion. I have not seen the data, but the premise that a personal belief in God (or lack thereof) is related to committing crime could never be proven.

I think the more likely conclusion is that in tough situations like prison people are more likely to consider God and possibly believe in Him.

 

[1holycatholic]

I am going to challenge you on your conclusion. I have not seen the data, but the premise that a personal belief in God (or lack thereof) is related to committing crime could never be proven.

I think the more likely conclusion is that in tough situations like prison people are more likely to consider God and possibly believe in Him.

The claim appears to be a mega-fabrication.
adherents.com/misc/adh_prison.html

 

[JPUSC]

I think the more likely conclusion is that in tough situations like prison people are more likely to consider God and possibly believe in Him.

Yes, I think that’s it. I know that for soldiers, particularly during World War II, it was said that “there are no atheists in foxholes”.

Religion is also the strongest in the poorest countries as opposed to the more well-off areas (Western countries). Suffering does, in a way, allow some to realize the existence of God.

I suppose when you’re well-off and living a happy care-free life, as many college students are, it becomes easy to forget God and to question religion. Not to mention, many college professors are not friendly to religion and will disseminate their own opinions, even in a so-called Catholic university.

In my personal experience, I have found atheism among professors to be more widespread in the science fields. Ironically, I found a number of religious professors in the cinema department. But, I suppose that’s not that big of a surprise since the arts is an emotional and expressive field and religion could be viewed in a similar way.

Science professors/majors tend to be more matter-of-factly; they only believe in something that can be proven. Since belief in God relies on faith, many of them tend to view religion as something for the “uneducated masses”.

Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 5:3

(The word poor seems to represent an Aramaic 'ányâ (Hebrew 'anî), bent down, afflicted, miserable, poor; while meek is rather a synonym from the same root, 'ánwan (Hebrew 'ánaw), bending oneself down, humble, meek, gentle. Some scholars would attach to the former word also the sense of humility; others think of “beggars before God” humbly acknowledging their need of Divine help. But the opposition of “rich” (Luke 6:24) points especially to the common and obvious meaning, which, however, ought not to be confined to economical need and distress, but may comprehend the whole of the painful condition of the poor: their low estate, their social dependence, their defenceless exposure to injustice from the rich and the mighty. Besides the Lord’s blessing, the promise of the heavenly kingdom is not bestowed on the actual external condition of such poverty. The blessed ones are the poor “in spirit”, who by their free will are ready to bear for God’s sake this painful and humble condition, even though at present they be actually rich and happy; while on the other hand, the really poor man may fall short of this poverty “in spirit”.

newadvent.org/cathen/02371a.htm)

 

[samkirowen]

I know atheists who were raised by religious parents and atheists raised in atheist households. A good upbringing is a good upbringing, and strong families are strong families, regardless of what they believe.

The son-in-law in this case is still the same good person he always was; he just now disagrees with the rest of you on one particular issue. All I’m saying is that you’ll probably have more sucess (or at the very least not alienate him) if you demonstrate an understanding of this fact.

Statistically, the number of atheists in prison is much, much lower than the number of believers in prison. It’s hardly perfect data, and it doesn’t prove anything in and of itself, but it would at least appear that atheists commit crime at a lower rate than the rest of the general population.

The number of atheists in prison is less because prior to the crime they were atheists. Once convicted and placed in jail, they started believing in God.

 

[samichtu]

I have to say, I was almost one of those people who went to college as a strong Catholic and as the months went by, my faith was fading. I don’t feel there is a solid thing you can be able to do to bring someone back, but to just be welcoming and continue to evangelize to that person. That’s what my friends did for me. I refused many times, but I still believed in God and liked those old friends from church so I finally accepted completely and came back to church for good. I’m proud to say that I am still serving and I am stronger than ever. The change had to start within me, though… I had to accept the Holy Spirit’s calling so that He could move within me. I know He was definitely working through that friend though… he never gave up :] And now he’s my best friend. Haha. I don’t know, I just felt like sharing but, really… to just continue to pray for the guy and welcome him back every time is something that should never stop. Don’t lose faith!

 

[farquardt]

There seems to be much written and discussed about the problem of young students going into college with faith and coming out thinking faith is for the uneducated and ignorant.

Where can I find the resouces to undo or to help undo what’s been done?

My daughter’s boyfriend has morals and values, which seem to be contrary to atheism, but no longer believes in God after a few years in college.

He’s been given books, but that takes effort. Are there any good Internet videos that can help get the message accross?

And are there any tools that my daughter can use to help her “bring him back”? We are all praying and expecting and hoping that it won’t take too long.

He would make a great husband and father, but without faith, I don’t believe they could make it and I fear, my daughter would end up losing her faith.

It is easier to pull someone down than to pull someone up.
Thanks

Well if you wonder why people come out with less than the brainwashed teachings of the church they learned as youngsters, perhaps you shouldn’t. Educated people question their beliefs as a part of their maturity process and ultimately have to decide for themselves in what morals and values they believe. If you have grounded them in basic moral beliefs, then your son or daughter will come out with strong beliefs that THEY chose, not ones YOU chose for them. I am a recovering Catholic and still believe in much of the theism of the Church, but cannot adhere to the rigid, anti-human dogma they purport in being anti gay and anti research that could help diseased people have a more productive life in their later years. I belong to a Christian Church which is more supportive of independent thinkers.

 

[1holycatholic]

Well if you wonder why people come out with less than the brainwashed teachings of the church they learned as youngsters, perhaps you shouldn’t. Educated people question their beliefs as a part of their maturity process and ultimately have to decide for themselves in what morals and values they believe. If you have grounded them in basic moral beliefs, then your son or daughter will come out with strong beliefs that THEY chose, not ones YOU chose for them. I am a recovering Catholic and still believe in much of the theism of the Church, but cannot adhere to the rigid, anti-human dogma they purport in being anti gay and anti research that could help diseased people have a more productive life in their later years. I belong to a Christian Church which is more supportive of independent thinkers.

Do tell…

In another thread.

 

[otjm]

Statistically, the number of atheists in prison is much, much lower than the number of believers in prison. It’s hardly perfect data, and it doesn’t prove anything in and of itself, but it would at least appear that atheists commit crime at a lower rate than the rest of the general population.

Or, it simply could be a variation on what my father (who, in World War 2, was in combat arms in the Pacific, and got up close and personal with the enemy repeatedly) said: there are no aetheists in a foxhole.

 

[MegaTherion]

atheistfoxholes.org/

I’m sorry to derail the thread, but that hateful phrase “There are no atheists in foxholes” is demonstrably false. The disrespect it shows to the atheists in our army is despicable.

I don’t intend to post on this thread again – we can discuss the prison statistics elsewhere.

Please stay on the topic of the thread.