College - goes in Catholic comes out Atheist

[Nepenthe]

For what it’s worth, as someone with pretty extensive experience among the ‘criminal’ elements of non-imprisoned society (who often, in my experience are, in fact, very nice people, often offering charity and kindness more frequently than their ‘more right-living’ fellows). I can, however anecdotally, tell you that very, very many of these ‘criminals’ are in fact very devout, attend church, temple, mosque, etc) regularly, and firmly aver their belief.

It seems to me fallacious to presume a religious connection between ‘criminality’ and ‘fine, upstanding personhood’. You do both groups of people a grave disservice by making such presumptions.

And as for scientists, the usual numbers taken by various polls come out pretty even - say 40-45% theist and 50-55% nontheist. And you don’t see them quarreling much about such matters, since they’re usually much too involved with their work and the questions arising from their labor, which when pursued with rigor and discipline, provides plenty of wonder, astonishment, and incredibly hard work already.

 

[CGDouglas]

As to the topic, I think it’s a balance scale.

We increase our reason as we wish to learn.
At the expense, it can decrease on faith.

It could be seen as a set of scales.

http://www.ci.carmel.in.us/scales.gif
JOHN PAUL II:

Faith and reason are like two wings on which the human spirit rises to the contemplation of truth; and God has placed in the human heart a desire to know the truth—in a word, to know himself—so that, by knowing and loving God, men and women may also come to the fullness of truth about themselves (cf. Ex 33:18; Ps 27:8-9; 63:2-3; Jn 14:8; 1 Jn 3:2).

Source

God Bless.

Chris.

 

[GodLovesTheSpek]

Those who drift away/reject The Church (regardless of circumstances – in this case College) either have been deceived by The Liar with Lies, noise and distraction that accompanies a worldly-centric atmosphere and/or it was never revealed to them what they truly had. This is why we never give The Liar one second of our precious life (or “dance with The Devil”) because he will use it to chip away Truth, so much so that Truth then becomes distorted, unrecognizeable and relative. The seeds of doubt get sown and in the worldly cesspool of manure it grows.

Give The Liar and Father Of Lies nothing because all The Liar will ever return is Death. Forever.

 

[peacefulwarrior]

Well, it may have been because the way people in college have to think. As i’m currently going to college i could vouch for that guy. College is mostly about the matter of fact. If he was majored in a science related field, there a even larger reason. In science everything has to be proven over and over again. Until there isn’t any doubt. Sadly, Faith isn’t something that can be proven, that’s why faith is called faith. It’s something that has to be believed. Sadly, belief is worth little to nothing, in college. It has to be proven in order to be true, just like we know when throw something in the air it will fall down. Sonner or later, no matter what it will fall down. Also a piece of advice, imagine someone of another faith doing the samethings to you everyone is telling you do to him. You will, get impatient and then angry. You have to show him subtlely, why your faith is correct. Overdue it, and there might be consequences. And, if i may ask, what was his major. Different majors, different reasons. You can have different strategies, accourding to what he learned. There is no silver bullet, because atheism isn’t a warewolf.

 

[1holycatholic]

Well, it may have been because the way people in college have to think. As i’m currently going to college i could vouch for that guy. College is mostly about the matter of fact. If he was majored in a science related field, there a even larger reason. In science everything has to be proven over and over again. Until there isn’t any doubt. Sadly, Faith isn’t something that can be proven, that’s why faith is called faith. It’s something that has to be believed. Sadly, belief is worth little to nothing, in college. It has to be proven in order to be true, just like we know when throw something in the air it will fall down. Sonner or later, no matter what it will fall down. Also a piece of advice, imagine someone of another faith doing the samethings to you everyone is telling you do to him. You will, get impatient and then angry. You have to show him subtlely, why your faith is correct. Overdue it, and there might be consequences. And, if i may ask, what was his major. Different majors, different reasons. You can have different strategies, accourding to what he learned. There is no silver bullet, because atheism isn’t a warewolf.

What you are describing is fideism, and it’s contrary to Catholicism.

St. Thomas Aquinas writes:
Article 2. Whether it can be demonstrated that God exists?
Objection 1. It seems that the existence of God cannot be demonstrated. For it is an article of faith that God exists. But what is of faith cannot be demonstrated, because a demonstration produces scientific knowledge; whereas faith is of the unseen (Hebrews 11:1). Therefore it cannot be demonstrated that God exists.
Reply to Objection 1. The existence of God and other like truths about God, which can be known by natural reason, are not articles of faith, but are preambles to the articles; for faith presupposes natural knowledge, even as grace presupposes nature, and perfection supposes something that can be perfected. Nevertheless, there is nothing to prevent a man, who cannot grasp a proof, accepting, as a matter of faith, something which in itself is capable of being scientifically known and demonstrated.
The Catechism of the Catholic Church states the same thing.

 

[otjm]

I am a recovering Catholic and still believe in much of the theism of the Church, but cannot adhere to the rigid, anti-human dogma they purport in being anti gay and anti research that could help diseased people have a more productive life in their later years. I belong to a Christian Church which is more supportive of independent thinkers.

You are certainly not the first, and won’t be the last. However, I would challenge you to actually read what the church says about the issues you feel are so rigid and anti-human. And by that, I don’t mean for you to read a few one liners and sentances, but actually dig into what the Church really teaches. And that would mean that you would need to be open to challenging your own perceptions about what the term “human” means.

I would suggest (although it is not the direction you seem to be challenging Church teaching) that you read Humanae Vitae, by Pope Paul 6th (it was an asstoundingly prescient and prophetic document); and listen to Dr. Janet Smith’s talk on Contraception - Why Not; from there, read a digest of John Paul 2’s Theology of the Body (Christopher West has done a very good job).

Yes, I understand your issue is not specifically contraception; but much of the issue about contraception goes much deeper, to the issue of what does it mean to be human? What does it mean to be male or female?

On second thought, I might suggest a reversal in the reading, as JP 2 lays the foundation from a personalist and phenomenological perspective (as opposed to a scholastic or neo scholastic perspective).

It is altogether too easy to be put off by simplistic catch phrases, as opposed to actually doing some intellectual research to see if the popular catch phrases have anything to do with reality. Some of what you touched on often goes not to an intellectual argument, but rather to an emotional argument. And emotional arguments (and those who argue emotionally) cannot be reasoned with, as reason has little or nothing to do with emotions.

My issues in the past with the Church were not the same as yours; I can only explain it this way: I had an epiphany; one day it occured to me that it was just slightly, ever so slightly possible that the Church, in 2000 years, had attained a bit more wisdom than I had in about 40. That was truly an interesting day.

 

[WarriorInChrist]

A correction – morals and values are in no way contrary to atheism. Just about every atheist I know is a good person and has a strong relationship with his/her family.

We just don’t agree with one specific belief.

If you don’t mind a nonbeliever’s opinion, I would recommend not coming on too strongly to this young man, as you could end up pushing him further away. Instead, I think the best “argument” you could make is simply living the teachings of Christ and letting your actions speak for you.

You’re unlikely to convince him intellectually anyway, and you’ll probably be more successful (or at least not alienate him) if you don’t make him feel like you’re pressuring him to agree with you.

I am Catholic and I agree with this approach. There are some people you cannot simply argue with or talk to about certain things. It’s not a matter of him not knowing, it’s a matter of him choosing not to. So I suggest staying strong yourself, providing a good example, and with lots of prayer hopefully he will realize how serious you take your religion and come back.

In addition, if your daughter is in serious danger of losing her faith due to him and his beliefs, she should definitely break the relationship off. Absolutely NO ONE or NOTHING is worth losing your faith over. I don’t know how old your daughter is, but if she’s already an adult then she now bares the responsibility of making the right choice.