College: Worth the cost?

[flyingfish]

That is not true. The govt requires only three years work experience in any job for air traffic control. No degree required. With a little luck and with ATC hiring off the street you can do it without any degree and make 80K in 3-5 years.

I am a college senior. I am a few months from my degree. I do not need to worry about college. I have that more than covered.

Okay, but how many jobs like that are out there? Maybe truck drivers also make decent money without needing an education. I mean, I don’t know everything that’s out there, but it just seems like high paying jobs that don’t require an education are few and far between.

Anyway, all that assumes that making money is the main goal. Many people would argue for the value of education for its own sake. What is the point of making money if not to be able to afford a good life for yourself? For many, learning and being in an academic atmosphere is fulfilling.

 

[dulcissima]

False, 60% of airline pilots come from civilian flight schools.

I just went and looked at Indeed.com for airline pilot jobs. There are only internships listed. It appears that in order to work as an unpaid intern, you must first have your commercial pilot’s license and second be a junior or senior in college with a minimum GPA. It sounds like it would be a long shot to get a job as an airline pilot without first having a college degree.

The kinds of jobs that people want, that are interesting and not a total drain, usually only go to college graduates. It would be a miserable existence to work only for a paycheck. I can’t think of any paycheck that would be worth that.

 

[mjs1987]

Okay, but how many jobs like that are out there? Maybe truck drivers also make decent money without needing an education. I mean, I don’t know everything that’s out there, but it just seems like high paying jobs that don’t require an education are few and far between.

Anyway, all that assumes that making money is the main goal. Many people would argue for the value of education for its own sake. What is the point of making money if not to be able to afford a good life for yourself? For many, learning and being in an academic atmosphere is fulfilling.

What is the value of an education that costs more than you will actually make? If it is paid off without any loans then I would agree with that. But if you have student loans you need to pay them off. A liberal arts degree does not help you much in this regard.

For me, college is easy. In every class Ive been in be it a history, science, language, political science or any class they have been easy. I already knew the stuff going into it. I didnt actually learn anything new. Even in the upper levels, the classes are not challenging intellectually. Ive been to Elon and George Mason in my career and both were supposed to be pretty challenging intellectually. I found myself bored and sleeping in classes I was going to get an A in from the start. The problem with college classes is that they all have a syllabus. Just by doing whats on the syllabus you can easily get an A in any class with minimal work since each professor has a system you can figure out and work. College has been fun and easy. I feel that for the money I was paying that it should be a little challenging.

 

[mjs1987]

I just went and looked at Indeed.com for airline pilot jobs. There are only internships listed. It appears that in order to work as an unpaid intern, you must first have your commercial pilot’s license and second be a junior or senior in college with a minimum GPA. It sounds like it would be a long shot to get a job as an airline pilot without first having a college degree.

The kinds of jobs that people want, that are interesting and not a total drain, usually only go to college graduates. It would be a miserable existence to work only for a paycheck. I can’t think of any paycheck that would be worth that.

They want a degree now since most arent hiring due to large amount of furloughs. But just 2 years ago all the airlines requires was 250 hours and a wet commercial certificate for a job flying 50-90 people.

 

[flyingfish]

What is the value of an education that costs more than you will actually make? If it is paid off without any loans then I would agree with that. But if you have student loans you need to pay them off. A liberal arts degree does not help you much in this regard.

I think if you really want to answer the financial question you should do research about how much people with which kind of degrees generally make, and how people without an education fare in life.

I haven’t researched this, so I wouldn’t know.

As for the other point, what is the value of an education? I mean, myself I love learning. I would rather be in debt and and get an education than be a billionaire on the condition that I could never study. It really depends on what an individual values in life.

For me, college is easy. In every class Ive been in be it a history, science, language, political science or any class they have been easy. I already knew the stuff going into it. I didnt actually learn anything new. Even in the upper levels, the classes are not challenging intellectually. Ive been to Elon and George Mason in my career and both were supposed to be pretty challenging intellectually. I found myself bored and sleeping in classes I was going to get an A in from the start. The problem with college classes is that they all have a syllabus. Just by doing whats on the syllabus you can easily get an A in any class with minimal work since each professor has a system you can figure out and work. College has been fun and easy. I feel that for the money I was paying that it should be a little challenging.

Either you’re a genius or you were in an easy program. I’m not stupid myself, and that definitely was not my experience. I had to work very hard, and found my classes to be very challenging.

 

[sanctamaria17]

To start with, I did not go to school to find a career.

My parents encouraged me to apply, not because they thought I’d make money or anything (they are advocates of trade schools and other programs, also advocates for taking time off to work) but because they believed I had the intelligence and drive to do it. They were right.

I started thinking I was going to become a doctor, but I did not major in a science, only intended to minor. I knew I had other interests. It ended up working for me. I found that the medical field was not my calling so I just took classes and explored. In the meantime, the economy was tanking, so I got a job for the first time and learned how to support myself.

The classes I ended up taking led me to a major that sets my heart and mind on fire. The job I took led me to put myself out there, in terms of networking and internships. For the latter, it also helped that my professors have connections and are willing to lend a hand to dedicated students. In addition, both of these are leading me to study in Kenya in the fall, an opportunity I barely let myself DREAM.

I did NOT go to college thinking I’d get to work on hunger policy or that I’d have the opportunity to go to Africa. However, because I opened to what I WANTED instead of what I believed was EXPECTED, I was able to channel my education (and the needs to support it) into my passion. Yes, I will be under considerable debt when I graduate next spring. Yes, I did go to one of those dreaded, liberal, secular universities (and I love my university, buahahahahahahah). But I would NOT trade the friends I made, the trials I underwent, the deepening of my faith (especially as I learned to defend it and became active in social justice issues), and the passion ignited for ANYTHING.

Besides, I can always bar tend My mom jokes that I’ll make more money bar tending than in the non-profit sector.

On a serious note…I like my liberal arts degree. I worked hard for it, both academically and financially. And my faith did not suffer, it became stronger.

My stance? Ground yourself in faith and God will take you where HE needs you. Everything else is inconsequential.

 

[flyingfish]

Besides, I can always bar tend My mom jokes that I’ll make more money bar tending than in the non-profit sector.

That’s a good point too, would you rather make more money doing something mundane and boring or less money doing what you love?

Even if some expensive liberal arts programs (if, because I don’t know if this is true or not) don’t pay for themselves in the long run, it’s still worth doing if it means doing something you love throughout life even while paying back the loan.

Unless you really love some kind of a trade, it’s hard to think of interesting work that doesn’t require an education. And having worked unskilled jobs as a teen, I have to say I’d be willing to be in a lot of debt to avoid that kind of hell for the rest of my life, no matter how much it paid.

 

[Greg27]

I think a liberal arts degree is fine, but it should be done in tandem with a second more practical degree (i.e. Journalism/Law or Science). The generic and analytical skills you learn in Philosophy or English can be extremely useful in careers that need good writing and reading skills (Journalism, Publishing, Law, etc). I see bad writing all the time or poor argument and reasoning, especially where it is needed the most, like contentious public moral debates. Someone who is able to argue rationally about the wrongness of an action in a rational way without attacking or ridiculing their opponent gets my admiration much faster than someone who doesn’t reason their way through an issue and bases their opinion on what they were taught or their emotional impulse. Employers don’t like it when their job applicants can’t communicate, do simple math, spell, or are unable to put sentences together in the proper grammatical format.

 

[Jay82]

My personal opinion is that college is essential. Sure there are some degrees that may not be as useful to others, but a degree opens doors. It gives you options someone without a degree will never have.

I tend to agree whole-heartedly with flyingfish. There may be some skilled labor jobs you can obtain without a degree and do well for yourself, however, not everyone is capable of that type of work. Additionally, manual labor jobs take a toll on you phyiscally and you may not be able to do it as you get into your 50s or older as you would with a ‘white collar’ job. Futhermore, any time a non-degree holder finds themself up against a degree holder they are at a big disadvantage.

My hometown, despite being very large, is very close knit and we all know one another pretty well. At risk of sounding mean, all of those who didn’t go to college from my high school were what many would call ‘losers’ (this excludes those entering the military). These kids that chose not to go to college or couldn’t get into college really had no direction in life, no inititative, no motivation and they are still not doing anything constructive with themselves. I see them around waiting tables, pumping gas, working as a cashier, mowing lawns, etc. I don’t see how they can ever get by on those sort of wages. Just about all of them live at home still and some even have kids out of wedlock. It is sad. On the contrary, kids who didn’t do all that well in high school, but would make the effort, went to community college, got a degree and are able to adequately support themselves.

I don’t see college posing that much of a threat to one’s faith. I guess because it didn’t affect mine. I never experienced a professor speaking negatively of any religion. Sure they generally had liberal views, but they were rarely mentioned. They focused on the course work, not their life views. I know there are plenty of immoral things going on, but I didn’t participate in any parties or activities where underage drinking occurred, nor did I engage in any type of situation that would put me at risk of not being chaste. When I turned 21, I drank responsibly, I never had any alcohol before then. I went to a large university that had plenty of opportunities to do fun things in your spare time other than drink/party.

I have loans to pay back from college, but my degree (Bachelor of Science) has helped me get a great job out of college and the benefits/salary easily surpass the cost of my education, not to mention the fact I have been living independently for many years, thus reducing my parents expenses as well.

With very very few exceptions, I don’t see why anyone would choose not to go to college. To me, it isn’t a wise decision.

 

[Art321]

If money is all that you are after, you don’t even need a degree. My ex has made 6 figures for over a decade without a degree.

Only in America. I would say that is true, since in order to get ahead from poverty in most nations, you would require an education. Education is a blessing from God. Don’t throw it away!

 

[Sina]

In university, the main thing I find that you learn is how to critically assess. By the time you graduate, you will form your own mind about which professors are full of it and which ones you admire.

I never had sex in university… I think it helped that I didn’t live in a dorm. Sure I drank, but not excessively. Of course, in Canada we can drink when we are 18. Drinking isn’t a sin, unless it is abused. I do understand that you mean that drinking leads to other sinful activities.

I still think getting a university education and the experience had there, gives better preparation in most case for most poeple, is better than not.

 

[Sina]

As for the other point, what is the value of an education? I mean, myself I love learning. I would rather be in debt and and get an education than be a billionaire on the condition that I could never study. It really depends on what an individual values in life.

Either you’re a genius or you were in an easy program. I’m not stupid myself, and that definitely was not my experience. I had to work very hard, and found my classes to be very challenging.

haha or I was going to make a joke that a college/university degree in the US must just be easier than the rest of the world If it is THAT easy, you should be getting a scholarship and doing a masters and a PhD… unless there is no material that interests you.

 

[sanctamaria17]

I’m smart but I’d hardly call my program easy. My Econ classes threaten to kick my butt every day (actually, they threaten to pulverize Chuck Norris). A B in those classes is hard earned and merits respect, in my opinion I used to flip out if I got anything less than an A in any class, like I didn’t work hard enough/wasn’t smart enough. I tell my mom that my Econ minor is God calling me to be more humble That, plus its applications to International Development, are why I need it so badly.

But I also started college as a premed student. THAT was a humbling experience. It wasn’t till I started taking upper level Econ classes that I started thanking God for Calculus.

 

[Cat]

What is the value of an education that costs more than you will actually make? If it is paid off without any loans then I would agree with that. But if you have student loans you need to pay them off. A liberal arts degree does not help you much in this regard.

For me, college is easy. In every class Ive been in be it a history, science, language, political science or any class they have been easy. I already knew the stuff going into it. I didnt actually learn anything new. Even in the upper levels, the classes are not challenging intellectually. Ive been to Elon and George Mason in my career and both were supposed to be pretty challenging intellectually. I found myself bored and sleeping in classes I was going to get an A in from the start. The problem with college classes is that they all have a syllabus. Just by doing whats on the syllabus you can easily get an A in any class with minimal work since each professor has a system you can figure out and work. College has been fun and easy. I feel that for the money I was paying that it should be a little challenging.

What a waste of time and your brain.

You have a form of intelligence, but you do not have ambition and drive, or you would have gone to the trouble to MAKE your classes and college work challenging. If doing minimal work is enough to earn you As, then seek out ways to maximize the work. Do research, write papers, find a mentor, find ways to apply what you are learning to real life and make this world a better place. Get up and get moving.

I’m guessing that you are not as smart as you think you are because if you were, you would have been invited by the professors to work with them (no pay as an undergrad) in their labs, or to sit at their feet and glean their knowledge in informal settings. Even at my state university, there were professors who nurtured a flock of eager undergrads who showed up at the professor’s door asking for more than he/she could teach in a lecture hall or lab. I was one of those undergrads, and I tried to never miss an opportunity to soak up as much learning as possible.

Good luck to you in real life.

 

[sanctamaria17]

In university, the main thing I find that you learn is how to critically assess. By the time you graduate, you will form your own mind about which professors are full of it and which ones you admire.

I never had sex in university… I think it helped that I didn’t live in a dorm. Sure I drank, but not excessively. Of course, in Canada we can drink when we are 18. Drinking isn’t a sin, unless it is abused. I do understand that you mean that drinking leads to other sinful activities.

I still think getting a university education and the experience had there, gives better preparation in most case for most poeple, is better than not.

I agree. Never had sex, never even KISSED someone till I was 20…and I lived in a dorm for two years. It kind of helps that guys who only want sex and partying turn me off faster than my hand can reach the light switch. Ick…no, thank you. Dudes, you can’t even wear pants properly (making fun of how they take absolutely nothing seriously). How the hell am I supposed to trust you with either my body or my immortal soul? Not till I’m married, no way. Now THAT’s an empowered woman invoking her right to say NO!

I learned how to defend my faith and my pro-life views in school. People have told me, “Wow, it actually makes sense out of your mouth” and that they like my “brand of feminism.” I’ve learned how to listen, to judge whether someone is debating actual scholarship or just their own viewpoints. In my own group of friends, I have both the most radically liberal, pro-choice, post-feminist people, as well as orthodox Catholics with conservative viewpoints, who are either in Opus Dei or entering religious life. A LOT of this has deepened my faith as well as my relationships with people.

Of course, people don’t get why I’m still a virgin. Whatever. I have a lot of stress in my life. Why would I want to add a pregnancy scare into the mix? I know I’m not ready for a baby, that’s why I don’t have sex!

 

[sanctamaria17]

I’m guessing that you are not as smart as you think you are because if you were, you would have been invited by the professors to work with them (no pay as an undergrad) in their labs, or to sit at their feet and glean their knowledge in informal settings. Even at my state university, there were professors who nurtured a flock of eager undergrads who showed up at the professor’s door asking for more than he/she could teach in a lecture hall or lab. I was one of those undergrads, and I tried to never miss an opportunity to soak up as much learning as possible.

Good luck to you in real life.

Cat, you make an excellent point.

When you find a cool professor, they do everything to keep you interested. Not only do they lend you books and such, they’ll get you jobs and networks EVERYWHERE! One of my professors has offered to help me get an internship with USAID!!! Another is willing to talk about how he became a lobbyist and help other students pursue that career.

It really is about what you put into it.

 

[Lutheranteach]

Worth the cost: Absolutely. I’ve heard the stats about how much more college grads make, etc. and that is all well and good. The most important thing about college is that, unlike many high schools, you are forced to work with, meet, relate to, etc. people who ARE NOT like you. In fact they may hold views that are 180 degrees opposite of yourself and still you find ways to accomplish things. Very key life skill. I can’t imagine a life without university learning.

 

[proudnifi]

It should be worth the cost. While college isn’t for everyone, it’s a good idea for most people. I haven’t seen any papers suggesting college isn’t worth the expense; generally, the opposite. What I have seen are articles that suggest there isn’t necessarily a direct corelation between how much is spent and how much is earned (someone going to a good public school might have a higher ROI than someone going to a more expensive private school). I have also seen some people question the ROI of MBAs. But, generally speaking, a person is better off financially with a college degree.

Aside from the dollars (which are important), there is the matter of learning/education, as others have pointed out. I value that aspect of my schooling very much; it made me a more developed person and also helped me add value to myself as an employee (contributing to the dollar side again).

Many colleges may have an extra concentration of non-conservatives or anti-religious thought, but much of that exists in the overall society, along with sex, drinking, and a host of other temptations. We have to learn to deal with them someplace. If you find the right people, college is a great place to debate ideas and learn more about what you believe. You might even put some good ideas in other people’s heads.

 

[robdaddyf]

College, work, and “what to do with one’s life” should be approached, first, within a life of prayer. If a person is not prayerful what you do cannot be pleasing to God. To examine the question, “Worth the cost” cannot be done unless one is firmly planted in the embrace of God. Most people shrug off growth in prayer and intimacy of God because they reason that, “Hey, God’s great and all…but hey…I have to eat…right?” Man does NOT live on bread alone…more right.

We too often make choices based on what, “seems to make sense to us” by considering many pros and cons based on a worldly view of success/failure and with an overriding lack of contentment. None of this is meant to say that YOU are not prayerful but I’m throwing out general truths. What is it that the Lord wants you to do? Do that first. Career choices and college aside. “Advancement” is not necessarily a blessing but can be a curse because it may cause you to lose Christ. Many will argue this point and they are typically the same people who have given their lives to “career” instead of for the sake of the gospel in service to others.

I will pray for you, that the Lord would answer your prayers that lead you to salvation and eternal life!

 

[Lethe]

Is a college education worth the cost not just in terms of the price of college but more importantly in the risk to the soul from activist professors with anti-life and anti-religion philosophies that contribute to students loss of faith as well as the general moral decay that is present on many college campuses that encourages sinful activities such as sex and drinking? Is the economic advancement that comes from paying for a degree worth the risks to the faith? Today, many secular economists are arguing on economic grounds to NOT go to college since the costs are higher than the pay offs these days and that investing the money elsewhere and building work experience should mean more than a degree. However, in my view the threat to the faith of a young person should be the greater question. Is economic advancement and educational achievement worth the possibility of losing your faith and possibility eternal salvation?

I would extend this discussion to public high school but in those years parents have direct control over what their kids learn and the parents can counteract some of the bad teaching and influences to a greater degree. In college, this is not a possibility and the new found freedom contributes to the loss of faith and sinful behavior.

From my experiences, the worst classes are philosophy and comparative religion classes in college followed by science courses. Philosophy and comparative religion in Jesuit colleges and secular universities teach errors such as that all religions are pretty much the same and morality does not exist. Teaching like this with a cultural of peer pressure for sinfulness puts youth in a high risk to fall and many do fall. So it begs the question about the benefits compared to the risks of college.

By college age, ‘children’ can make decisions of their own. If they cannot, I would seriously worry that they had been wrapped up in cotton wool their whole lives…

I am at college (uni) at the moment. I am an atheist, but I can see that it would actually be pretty easy to keep faith strong - there is a chaplaincy with all religions represented, there are many clubs and socieites which can distract you from whatever other ‘temptations’ are on campus, and you will meet some of the best friends of your life.

As for the education being anti-religion? Well, I have not experienced that, and would like an example. The teachers have a duty to say religions are equal in status/not to say that one religion is the only right way, as there will be people of other religions at the college. I think it is very narrow-minded to assume that, or even want, only YOUR religion to be given its due.

Philosophy is a good subject, and provokes thought and debate on ethics. It encourages people to defend their views, and yes, to question them, but in order to work out their justifications for such views. If your justification is faith, you can say that, though it may be a dead end in some debates. I’ve sometimes been arguing ‘devil’s advocate’ for things I do not believe, but does it make me believe them? No!

*** Liberal arts degrees are not worthless. Of what use are math or science without the context and wisdom that come from being well grounded in the liberal arts?

Couldnt agree more - I’m doing English Lit, and I love it. It makes you think analytically, and for yourself - you cannot just find out the right answer. And Ive had no problems with jobs so far.