Combining Last Names for Marriage?

[Allegra]

I think the idea that a wife who takes her husband’s name is giving up her own identity is nonsense. First of all, when a person gets married, their identity does change. Before they may have been “daughter of Kate” “song of Brian” “sister to Mike” “employee of Taco Bell” etc. Now they are adding a new role; husband or wife. They aren’t getting rid of their old identity, they are adding to it. Therefore, I can see no reason to be uncomfortable with being Mrs. So-and-so, because that’s who you are and aside from being a child of God, Wife-of-Husband is the most important title you are ever going to have.

Now, I can buy the argument that the name tradition is unequal because the husband doesn’t assume the identity of the wife, but consider all the other facets of identity that the husband is going to asume from his spouse. Who is going to paint their bedroom? Who is going to choose the towels? Who is going to decide what Mass they attend? Who is going to make the decision to use sugar or Splenda in the cookies? Who is going to select neighbors to invite over for lunch and playmates to invite for a sleepover? Who is going to determine whether to put white twinkle lights or colored on the Christmas tree? Who is going to plan the family vacation? Who is going to spend hours compiling the family photo album? A man may not be expected to take his wife’s family name, but he that certainly doesn’t mean that he doesn’t absorb a great deal of her identity into his.

 

[1ke]

How is merging identities, as opposed to one party assuming the identity of the other, “feminist propaganda”…

I said it was feminist programming, not propaganda. And I was referring to this statement:

something about **defining myself by my relationship to him **(Mrs Benoit = the wife of Mr. Benoit) rubs us both the wrong way, especially seeing that it’s completely one-sided (the woman defines herself by her relationship to the man, whereas the man gets to define himself, by, well, himself).

That is something regugitated straight out of Ms magazine. Taking your husband’s surname does not mean the wife is being “defined” by him. And the man did not give himself his surname he inherited it from his father. Is it some kind of subjugating plot on the part of his father? Of course not.

Moreover, this is culturally specific. It is the custom in this country and the UK (and other places of former English rule), but in other countries the woman does not change her name at all (and in still other countries people do not really have surnames… some have patrymonics only). And then of course there are countries (Slavonic, Russian, etc) where the surnames change depending upon masculine and feminine grammar rules. And of course, my favorite, Spain and most Spanish speaking countries in which children receive **multiple **surnames combining the first surname of their mother and father and women do not typically change their names (but sometimes will take the husband’s surname with “de”).

If they want to go against the cultural tradition of their country and do something that IMHO is ridiculous then more power to them. Why do I think it ridiculous? Because it confuses everyone and is based upon a false notion of feminist nonsense about women being subjugated by men.

 

[Phemie]

. Who is going to paint their bedroom?
I painted with him in mind.

Who is going to choose the towels?
We each pick our own.

Who is going to decide what Mass they attend?
My prerogative since I’m the Catholic. Anything else would have depended on HIS work schedule.

Who is going to make the decision to use sugar or Splenda in the cookies?
He uses Splenda when he bakes for himself. I use Splenda when I make things for him. I use sugar if they’re for me or company.

Who is going to select neighbors to invite over for lunch
For years they were his friends.

Playmates to invite for a sleepover?
The kids.

Who is going to determine whether to put white twinkle lights or colored on the Christmas tree?
Whoever goes shopping for them and over 37 years that’s been a 50/50 proposition.

Who is going to plan the family vacation?
Usually the driver – him. I get to make the reservations.

Who is going to spend hours compiling the family photo album?
Never done, photos just left in the envelopes.

A man may not be expected to take his wife’s family name, but he that certainly doesn’t mean that he doesn’t absorb a great deal of her identity into his.

 

[AdriannaJean]

I think the idea that a wife who takes her husband’s name is giving up her own identity is nonsense. First of all, when a person gets married, their identity does change. Before they may have been “daughter of Kate” “song of Brian” “sister to Mike” “employee of Taco Bell” etc. Now they are adding a new role; husband or wife. They aren’t getting rid of their old identity, they are adding to it. Therefore, I can see no reason to be uncomfortable with being Mrs. So-and-so, because that’s who you are and aside from being a child of God, Wife-of-Husband is the most important title you are ever going to have.

Now, I can buy the argument that the name tradition is unequal because the husband doesn’t assume the identity of the wife, but consider all the other facets of identity that the husband is going to asume from his spouse. Who is going to paint their bedroom? Who is going to choose the towels? Who is going to decide what Mass they attend? Who is going to make the decision to use sugar or Splenda in the cookies? Who is going to select neighbors to invite over for lunch and playmates to invite for a sleepover? Who is going to determine whether to put white twinkle lights or colored on the Christmas tree? Who is going to plan the family vacation? Who is going to spend hours compiling the family photo album? A man may not be expected to take his wife’s family name, but he that certainly doesn’t mean that he doesn’t absorb a great deal of her identity into his.

Thank you for your intelligent, and well put response. I guess I just want everything about our marriage to symbolize what our marriage actually is: a partnership of equals. The name change is only symbolic, but symbolism means a lot to me. The reason I thought combining names was a good choice for us was because it symbolizes what is actually going on. We are both coming into something new together, but taking some of our old lives too. Our family is comprised of his history and my history, so I think our family name should represent that. It’s two people coming together and blending what they already have to make something new.

gardenswithkids - We both have very good and close relationship with our own and each others’ families. There is no issue of me being resistant to becoming a Benoit because of an issue I have with the Benoits. I adore them all. My issue lies with the inherent symbolism involved with taking someone else’s name.

And, yes, I have considered the issues about family history researching. While I respect that it is a pastime many people enjoy, I don’t feel its appropriate for me to make a major life decision I feel uncomfortable with because it will throw a minor wrench into a potential descendent’s choice in hobbies. Documentation of name-changes and marriage certificates are very well kept in this day and age. I’m not worried about that aspect of it too much.

 

[Allegra]

Phemie:
I’m certain you’ve found some way to insinuate your own style and personality into your household, Phemie. If not, perhaps you ought to try being more assertive.

 

[Allegra]

It’s two people coming together and blending what they already have to make something new.

That’s going to happen regardless of what you call yourself. I think it would mean more to you and your family if you had at least one of your family names intact. If your grandmother gifted you with an heirloom quilt from your side of the family, would you start hacking out squares in order to install patches from your husband’s side of the family? If your husband’s mother gives him the family candlesticks, are you going to insist your mother give you one of hers and sit down to eat in front of mismatched candlesticks every night? I say, let the legacy from both your families come down intact. The mutilated name thing preserves nothing, in my opinion. (And another poster was right, both of your family names sound much nicer than any of those options.)

 

[AdriannaJean]

That is something regugitated straight out of Ms magazine. Taking your husband’s surname does not mean the wife is being “defined” by him. And the man did not give himself his surname he inherited it from his father. Is it some kind of subjugating plot on the part of his father? Of course not.

I have never heard of that magazine and I have not been “programmed” any more than anyone else is by their environment. In the same way that I can read a novel and interpret the symbolism, I can look at a custom and interpret the inherent symbolism. I don’t care where the tradition came from, whether its roots are sexist or how it compares to other cultures’ customs. I just don’t think the symbolism involved in that action accurately describes my relationship and I want to choose something new that will accurately symbolize my relationship. It’s not a broad-brush statement about the subjugation of women in our culture and history; it’s an individual statement about my relationship. I would feel equally uncomfortable with it if the custom was that he took my name.

Why do I think it ridiculous? Because it confuses everyone and is based upon a false notion of feminist nonsense about women being subjugated by men.

Like I said, it’s not a broad-brush statement about subjugation of women. It is a matter of appropriate symbolism.

Moreover, this is culturally specific. It is the custom in this country and the UK (and other places of former English rule), but in other countries the woman does not change her name at all (and in still other countries people do not really have surnames… some have patrymonics only). And then of course there are countries (Slavonic, Russian, etc) where the surnames change depending upon masculine and feminine grammar rules. And of course, my favorite, Spain and most Spanish speaking countries in which children receive **multiple **surnames combining the first surname of their mother and father and women do not typically change their names (but sometimes will take the husband’s surname with “de”).

Exactly. It is a custom. There’s nothing ridiculous about choosing not to participate in a cultural custom that you do not feel is relevant to your situation. Is it equally ridiculous of us to break our wedding customs and have our official wedding be attended only by four people and have our big party be a renewal of vows? No. We just feel it is more relevant to our situation. To say that something is not to your liking or your taste is a different thing than to call it ridiculous. Perhaps consider your phrasing.

 

[Sapphiregirl]

In the end, it is you and your husband who will be living with the names, so make the decision based off of what you want and can be comfortable with (the plural “you”), not what you think other people want of you. My fiancé and I considered combining names, but any combination sounded stupid.

 

[AdriannaJean]

That’s going to happen regardless of what you call yourself. I think it would mean more to you and your family if you had at least one of your family names intact. If your grandmother gifted you with an heirloom quilt from your side of the family, would you start hacking out squares in order to install patches from your husband’s side of the family? If your husband’s mother gives him the family candlesticks, are you going to insist your mother give you one of hers and sit down to eat in front of mismatched candlesticks every night? I say, let the legacy from both your families come down intact. The mutilated name thing preserves nothing, in my opinion. (And another poster was right, both of your family names sound much nicer than any of those options.)

I hadn’t considered that. That is a good point and I will give it some hard thought. Thank you.

 

[EasterJoy]

…I won’t let the crazy femi-nazis take “feminism” away from me…

…Perhaps consider your phrasing.

Not to de-rail your thread and not to defend extremists, but while we’re on the topic of names, can we all please agree to strenuously avoid the current craze of carelessly throwing around the word “Nazi”, so that when we’re talking about a group that truly is murderous in their oppressive tendencies, we’ll have not robbed that word of all its hideous import?

There are extremists in the feminist movement, people who may even be as fully oppressive as they can get away with being, but it would be a service to the language to refrain from calling even these people nazis, not even with a small-case “n”.

 

[AdriannaJean]

Not to de-rail your thread and not to defend extremists, but while we’re on the topic of names, can we all please agree to strenuously avoid the current craze of carelessly throwing around the word “Nazi”, so that when we’re talking about a group that truly is murderous in their oppressive tendencies, we’ll have not robbed that word of all its hideous import?

There are extremists in the feminist movement, people who may even be as fully oppressive as they can get away with being, but it would be a service to the language to refrain from calling even these people nazis, not even with a small-case “n”.

You’re right. I used that colloquialism carelessly. Rescinded. We’ll stick with “feminist extremists.”

 

[adrift]

Have you spoken to other family members?

Father mother brother sister?

I am interested in what his parents think of a name change for their son. Have you discussed it with them?

Perhaps you feel it is none of their buisness?

Perhaps they are o.k. with it?

 

[AdriannaJean]

I am interested in what his parents think of a name change for their son. Have you discussed it with them?

Perhaps you feel it is none of their buisness?

Perhaps they are o.k. with it?

We haven’t brought this to our parents yet because we haven’t decided on anything. We both have very large families, and while they are loving and supportive, we have found it is best for us to make our decisions first and then talk to people about why we decided what we did. If we involve everyone in the decision-making process it is just overwhelming the number of suggestions we get. Of course, if someone makes a very good point we hadn’t considered, we are generally open to changing course.

 

[EasterJoy]

We haven’t brought this to our parents yet because we haven’t decided on anything. We both have very large families, and while they are loving and supportive, we have found it is best for us to make our decisions first and then talk to people about why we decided what we did. If we involve everyone in the decision-making process it is just overwhelming the number of suggestions we get. Of course, if someone makes a very good point we hadn’t considered, we are generally open to changing course.

You are right about that. Caring what they feel does not mean that what they feel ought to run what you do! No, no, no! It only means that their feelings are among the many things you might take into account when you make the decision. That’s a very important distinction to make (including when you raise the topic with them).

I mean that if you make your decision prior to saying anything to them, consider their feelings when you give them the news. If you say something to them before making the decision, take it into account that they may have an emotional investment in what you decide. Do not be surprised if they react in an emotional way, but do not assume that they will, either. Be ready for either one, and have gentle ways to hold firm to your decided plan of how to decide.

These are just things to consider. The advantage of posting here is that you will have heard about every comment they are likely to make, from people whose opinions really don’t have a thing to do with you!

 

[Pink_Lemonade]

I guess I just want everything about our marriage to symbolize what our marriage actually is: a partnership of equals. The name change is only symbolic, but symbolism means a lot to me. The reason I thought combining names was a good choice for us was because it symbolizes what is actually going on. We are both coming into something new together, but taking some of our old lives too. Our family is comprised of his history and my history, so I think our family name should represent that. It’s two people coming together and blending what they already have to make something new.

A Catholic marriage is certainly a partnership, but the emphasis is really not on two people being equal, but two people coming together as one. We all have equal dignity, but the emphasis of a marriage is on the one-ness rather than “we are equal”.

I get that by combining names you are saying that both of you are now one, and I think it’s nice that you both want to have the same name. I really don’t think there’s anything wrong with what you’re trying to do- whatever names people take or don’t take when they marry is really a cultural thing, and if you don’t particularly like the idea of taking his name so be it. I just don’t necessarily agree with the reason behind it- I took my husband’s name, and it doesn’t make me any less of an individual than I was before.

In a marriage there will constantly be situations in which one of you has to defer to the other, and starting out by saying “neither of us is taking the other’s name because we are equal”, to me, is starting out with the expectation that you expect that there will always be a compromise and that neither of you wants to give into the other. The truth is that your identity does change when you marry, and being hesitant to be defined as “the wife of Mr. Benoit” simply because there is no reciprocation is different than saying “I prefer my last name because it sounds better” or “I’ve built my profession around my name”.

As I said, I don’t think there is anything wrong with keeping your name, changing it, or taking a whole new one. But I do think the reason you have for not wanting to take his name is a little concerning, because it seems as though your emphasis is on the “equal” part more than the mutual self-giving of marriage.

 

[cmscms]

As many of the posts on this thread have shown, combining names will get a lot of unpleasant reactions in the future. As long as you and your fiance are ready to stick together on it, go for it. If anything, I think this is just the first of a long line of incidents where people butt into your decisions and it is best to learn to work as a team now.

As for family members feelings… Although it is never appropriate to purposely hurt someone, I don’t think you need to worry about them. When you have a kid, are you going to do what is best for the kid or what will hurt your family the least?

IMO you should both keep your last names and simply combine your children’s name. As much as geneology can be interesting, I don’t think it is fair to choose a name that supports a hobby. If anything, I would love to look back at my family tree and see a name change caused by a woman who valued her name.

disclaimer: I respect a woman’s decision to change her name. I just never wanted to do it. I remember when I found out my mom changed her name, I though it was weak of her. I like the sound of my last name, I like the history of it and I think it is ridiculous that as a woman I can not give that to my kids.

So in a nutshell I said ‘good for you that your fiance and you are on the same page’

by the way, I really can’t pick a favorite so no help for you there

CM

 

[1ke]

Hey all.

Bennest

Foroit

Benfor

Forben

Thoughts?

Another reason I think it is ill advised to choose one of the above is that names actually have meaning. Your future husband’s particular name is awesome-- Benoit.

Benoit, French derivative of Benedict, means: blessed
Forest, an English surname, means (obviously): woodlands

The mixes above mean absolutely nothing. I think it sad to cut off from history and the meaning of the names.

 

[maryjk]

In a marriage there will constantly be situations in which one of you has to defer to the other, and starting out by saying “neither of us is taking the other’s name because we are equal”, to me, is starting out with the expectation that you expect that there will always be a compromise and that neither of you wants to give into the other. The truth is that your identity does change when you marry, and being hesitant to be defined as “the wife of Mr. Benoit” simply because there is no reciprocation is different than saying “I prefer my last name because it sounds better” or “I’ve built my profession around my name”.

This reminds me of couples that plan that their marriage will be 50/50.

If you plan on a marriage being 50/50, you have a lot of learning to do. Each day of marriage is different. Some days it is 100/0, some days 0/100 and some days 30/70 or 70/30. After 20 years of marriage, I don’t know that we have ever had a day that is 50/50.

 

[adrift]

This reminds me of couples that plan that their marriage will be 50/50.

If you plan on a marriage being 50/50, you have a lot of learning to do. Each day of marriage is different. Some days it is 100/0, some days 0/100 and some days 30/70 or 70/30. After 20 years of marriage, I don’t know that we have ever had a day that is 50/50.

After forty years almost, Aug 5 it will be forty, I don’t think we ever did either.

 

[adrift]

We haven’t brought this to our parents yet because we haven’t decided on anything. We both have very large families, and while they are loving and supportive, we have found it is best for us to make our decisions first and then talk to people about why we decided what we did. If we involve everyone in the decision-making process it is just overwhelming the number of suggestions we get. Of course, if someone makes a very good point we hadn’t considered, we are generally open to changing course.

You don’t think that this will have an effect on your husbands family? It will mean that the family name will not be passed on to your children. That may not mean anything to you but it may cause hard feelings with your in-laws to be. It may not be fair that it does but feelings have little to do with fairness. Talking to them before a decision is made may bring them over to your side where as making the decision and then informing them may be a long term bump in your relationship with them.