Comment from Middle East Synod - Jewish community not happy!

[Louie1983]

Have a look at these comments made by Melkite Greek Catholic bishop regards to the jews! God bless him for his courage!

***Rabbi David Rosen of the American Jewish Committee, who had addressed the Synod of Bishops for the Middle East, offered strong criticism of comments made near the synod’s conclusion by Archbishop Cyrille Salim Bustros, the Melkite Greek Catholic bishop of Newton (Massachusetts).

During an October 23 press conference presenting the synod’s final message, Archbishop Bustros was quoted as saying, “The Holy Scriptures cannot be used to justify the return of Jews to Israel and the displacement of the Palestinians, to justify the occupation by Israel of Palestinian lands,” adding, “We Christians cannot speak of the ‘promised land’ as an exclusive right for a privileged Jewish people. This promise was nullified by Christ. There is no longer a chosen people-- all men and women of all countries have become the chosen people.” ***

 

[malphono]

I have no argument with political justification (I actually agree with it), but this business of artificial “Biblical justification” has gone on for nearly a century and needs to be put to rest.

As a rule, I don’t quote myself but I just posted this in another [thread=503582]thread[/thread]. It certainly applies here, so I’ll bend my rule a bit and repost it here:

Whether it was official or not (whatever “official” means), I don’t know either, but I don’'t think it much matters. From what was actually reported said, I, too, agree in general with the sense in **Christian ** terms, (not in political terms). That said, though, I have a feeling that there may things hidden “between the lines” with which I would not agree (I rarely agree with the Melkites, and even more rarely with the Antiochian Orthodox, but neither has a bearin on this thread).

 

[Louie1983]

min chouf!

 

[nohamaria]

The subject of this thread is vital for Middle East religeous conflicts.
However, whether the mentioned Archbishop announce it truly
or not, where is the difference made in Juif beleive?
They still consider themselves the Choosen People and Israel,
The previous palestinian land, as Their Promessed Land.
Something , in their beleif , must convince them to change
their way of thinking. What is it? Here remain the main question
and the untold unswer.
I am still hoping that this Synod might make a difference
and help the people in this very conflicted part of earth.
Let us keep praying and hoping.
nohamaria

 

[malphono]

The subject of this thread is vital for Middle East religeous conflicts.
However, whether the mentioned Archbishop announce it truly
or not, where is the difference made in Juif beleive?
They still consider themselves the Choosen People and Israel,
The previous palestinian land, as Their Promessed Land.
Something , in their beleif , must convince them to change
their way of thinking. What is it? Here remain the main question
and the untold unswer.
I am still hoping that this Synod might make a difference
and help the people in this very conflicted part of earth.
Let us keep praying and hoping.
nohamaria

Personally, I see it as more vital to resolving political conflict, since there is little, if any religious conflict between Christians and Jews in the Middle East. Any religious conflict there may be is with a third religion. That third religion has very tightly woven the political into the religious (i.e. their religion, with no consideration whatsoever to either of the faiths that preceded it). The statement could be helpful in resolving the political conflict, though, insofar as, in its Christian context, it detaches religious considerations.

For the purpose of this thread, I can only repeat what I said earlier: I agree with the Archbishop insofar as what was said is interpreted in Christian terms.

 

[Louie1983]

For me it’s really good to see a bishop of the church standing up to the Jews.

For some reason we have to be very carefull as to not the offend the jews - always walking on egg shells around them when the truth should be proclaimed. I’m sick of it.

Good on the bishop for telling it how it is.

 

[malphono]

For me it’s really good to see a bishop of the church standing up to the Jews.

For some reason we have to be very carefull as to not the offend the jews - always walking on egg shells around them when the truth should be proclaimed. I’m sick of it.

Good on the bishop for telling it how it is.

Actually I was far more impressed with the Syriac bishop (name escapes me at the moment) who stood up against the real enemy (i.e., the third religion).

 

[Louie1983]

Actually I was far more impressed with the Syriac bishop (name escapes me at the moment) who stood up against the real enemy (i.e., the third religion).

what did he say?

 

[notredame_999]

what is the third religion? islam? Glad to see an Archbishop stand up to Israel. Cut off all aid to them.

 

[malphono]

malphono;7200974:

Actually I was far more impressed with the Syriac bishop (name escapes me at the moment) who stood up against the real

enemy (i.e., the third religion).what did he say?

It was Mgr Raboula Antoine Beylouni of the SCC. Anyway, see here for the text: radiovaticana.org/EN1/Articolo.asp?c=433391

 

[Alexander_Roman]

Actually, I don’t see this comment as one where the Hierarch is “standing up to the Jews.”

Really? Is it not an effort by the much-persecuted Christians in the Middle East to try to convince their persecutors that they are not lackeys of the pro-Israel West, in political terms?

And this attempt at convincing the persecutors of Christianity has been going on for years and to no avail. So why keep on trying?

As for Israel, apart from the complex issue involving Palestinians and Israel, Christians in Israel have nothing to fear from the Israeli authorities. But try going to any one of a number of other countries in the region. In one such country there is one Catholic Church - which cannot erect a Cross on top of its roof. I won’t go into the many other instances of persecution and martyrdom of Christians in those countries.

If anything, I see this statement as a kind of “biting the hand that feeds you” thing. At worst, it is an anti-Israel expression that should have no place among Christians. At best, it is a naive attempt to try and gain points with those who are continually pressing for the extinction of Christianity.

Alex

 

[Nine_Two]

I don’t get the charge of anti-semitism. The newspaper article I read seemed to be trying to put it in the worst light possible, yet I couldn’t find anything wrong.

The Israeli government seems a bit oversensitive. All he said was there is no religious justification. I thought Israel was supposed to be a secular state?

I guess I was wrong.

 

[Alexander_Roman]

There was no religious justification from a certain Christian perspective (although not all Christians would agree with him).

There is religious and other justification from the Jewish perspective which is also shared by many others.

There was no need for him to be so insensitive and insulting to the State of Israel and to Jews. As for being a secular state, I don’t remember the last time I saw a secular state with a flag bearing religious symbols i.e. the Magen David and the blue fringe-emblem.

The Muslim extremists won’t ease up on the Christians as a result of his statement, in any event. And I would hate to think that he would have been more retrospect in his statement about Israel if Israel became nasty toward Christians and the Christian shrines.

Alex

 

[Nine_Two]

There was no religious justification from a certain Christian perspective (although not all Christians would agree with him).

There is religious and other justification from the Jewish perspective which is also shared by many others.

There was no need for him to be so insensitive and insulting to the State of Israel and to Jews. As for being a secular state, I don’t remember the last time I saw a secular state with a flag bearing religious symbols i.e. the Magen David and the blue fringe-emblem.

The Muslim extremists won’t ease up on the Christians as a result of his statement, in any event. And I would hate to think that he would have been more retrospect in his statement about Israel if Israel became nasty toward Christians and the Christian shrines.

Alex

So what you’re saying is that by saying that from his religious perspective Israel has no religious right to its territory, at a closed conference of members of his religion, he was being insensitive?

So what you’re saying is it is wrong to state our religious beliefs if they are offensive to someone? I find that offensive.

 

[dcointin]

Actually, I don’t see this comment as one where the Hierarch is “standing up to the Jews.”

Really? Is it not an effort by the much-persecuted Christians in the Middle East to try to convince their persecutors that they are not lackeys of the pro-Israel West, in political terms?

And this attempt at convincing the persecutors of Christianity has been going on for years and to no avail. So why keep on trying?

As for Israel, apart from the complex issue involving Palestinians and Israel, Christians in Israel have nothing to fear from the Israeli authorities. But try going to any one of a number of other countries in the region. In one such country there is one Catholic Church - which cannot erect a Cross on top of its roof. I won’t go into the many other instances of persecution and martyrdom of Christians in those countries.

If anything, I see this statement as a kind of “biting the hand that feeds you” thing. At worst, it is an anti-Israel expression that should have no place among Christians. At best, it is a naive attempt to try and gain points with those who are continually pressing for the extinction of Christianity.

Alex

I’m a big supporter of Israel, not for religious reasons, but for political and historical ones. Since the founding of the modern state of Israel, Israeli’s have been attacked time and time again by people motivated by the same extremist ideologies that America is fighting now. The situation with the Palestinians is unfortunate, and I’m sure there have been abuses, but I support Israel’s right to protect its people from suicide bombers and other attacks. Israel is our strongest ally in the Middle East and shares our values of democracy, rule of law, and religious tolerance. It stands against enemies on all sides with a firm reliance in God which I find inspiring. There is no other country in the Middle East where Christians seem to be truly protected and safe, and I thank Israel for that.

 

[malphono]

There was no religious justification from a certain Christian perspective (although not all Christians would agree with him).

There is religious and other justification from the Jewish perspective which is also shared by many others.

About the only “Christians” I know of who share that artificial “Biblical justification” are the ultra-right-wing Evangelical Protestants, and even not all of them. For that matter, not even all native-born Israelis buy into it. It seems to be more popular among the Russian and American born.

As for being a secular state, I don’t remember the last time I saw a secular state with a flag bearing religious symbols i.e. the Magen David and the blue fringe-emblem.

How about Greece, Switzerland, and all of the Nordic Countries? And then there’s Turkey which is, officially at least, secular.

The Muslim extremists won’t ease up on the Christians as a result of his statement, in any event.

100% true.

There was no need for him to be so insensitive and insulting to the State of Israel and to Jews. …

And I would hate to think that he would have been more retrospect in his statement about Israel if Israel became nasty toward Christians and the Christian shrines.

Let’s face it, very similar things have been said before. Raya did it when he was Abp of Galilee. So did Hakim but I think he started it in earnest after he was elected Patriarch. There’s at least one other whose name escapes me, but he has been featured in several threads in this forum in the past.

 

[crazzeto]

Have a look at these comments made by Melkite Greek Catholic bishop regards to the jews! God bless him for his courage!

***Rabbi David Rosen of the American Jewish Committee, who had addressed the Synod of Bishops for the Middle East, offered strong criticism of comments made near the synod’s conclusion by Archbishop Cyrille Salim Bustros, the Melkite Greek Catholic bishop of Newton (Massachusetts).

During an October 23 press conference presenting the synod’s final message, Archbishop Bustros was quoted as saying, “The Holy Scriptures cannot be used to justify the return of Jews to Israel and the displacement of the Palestinians, to justify the occupation by Israel of Palestinian lands,” adding, “We Christians cannot speak of the ‘promised land’ as an exclusive right for a privileged Jewish people. This promise was nullified by Christ. There is no longer a chosen people-- all men and women of all countries have become the chosen people.” ***

For what it’s worth, he’s won my respect and admiration.

 

[crazzeto]

I don’t get the charge of anti-semitism. The newspaper article I read seemed to be trying to put it in the worst light possible, yet I couldn’t find anything wrong.

The Israeli government seems a bit oversensitive. All he said was there is no religious justification. I thought Israel was supposed to be a secular state?

I guess I was wrong.

It is in fact a secular state, but that doesn’t mean they won’t play the religious persecution card whenever it’s convinent.

 

[chosen_people]

For me it’s really good to see a bishop of the church standing up to the Jews.

For some reason we have to be very carefull as to not the offend the jews - always walking on egg shells around them when the truth should be proclaimed. I’m sick of it.

Good on the bishop for telling it how it is.

Actually I think you are supposed to be careful not to offend “Jews”, however I’m pretty sure you don’t have to be careful about offending “the jews” since everyone knows what “the jews” did to Jesus and how “the jews” control all the banks and all the media and just about everything else.

Now you would think that since we only make up two tenths of one per cent of the world’s population and since Israel is about the size of New Jersey, we could avoid making people so mad at us all the time or of being aware of our existence. The following links may help explain why some people today hate Israel and Jews so much and want to boycott us and eliminate the Jewish State:
argomedtec.com/
jinfo.org/

 

[Alexander_Roman]

Actually I think you are supposed to be careful not to offend “Jews”, however I’m pretty sure you don’t have to be careful about offending “the jews” since everyone knows what “the jews” did to Jesus and how “the jews” control all the banks and all the media and just about everything else.

Now you would think that since we only make up two tenths of one per cent of the world’s population and since Israel is about the size of New Jersey, we could avoid making people so mad at us all the time or of being aware of our existence. The following links may help explain why some people today hate Israel and Jews so much and want to boycott us and eliminate the Jewish State:
argomedtec.com/
jinfo.org/

You are absolutely right. I am with Israel and I do believe that attacks on Israel are a way of expressing anti-Semitism today in an “acceptable way” but such is never acceptable.

One thing about Christian churchmen - they are great at theology, but extremely naive to the point of being just, well, stupid when it comes to politics and the other social sciences (must be because seminaries don’t often teach them these). I do respect my Hierarchs, but have to laugh out loud when I hear them speak on political subjects - why don’t they ask for some others’ political perspectives on things before they let loose their tongues?

No, the only reason this disgraceful statement was made was to try and curry favour with the Arabs. It has never happened before, and won’t happen now. Israel is the only democracy there and it is the only place where I can buy a cross and a rosary and walk around with both with impunity and without feeling I need to put them in my pocket.

Shalom Aleichem.

Alex