Comment from Middle East Synod - Jewish community not happy!

[butch3510]

Who do the nations really want the Israelis to make peace with? The PA, Hamas, Hezbollah? None of them have any real power to keep their end of the deal. Not to mention they are divided amongst themselves. Their only common bond is their desire to see all Jews expelled from the land. These three groups(and other nations) constantly mention “crimes” by Israel that they will pay for. How will these comments pan out after a peace plan is brokered? The issues go on and on…

these are the replies that I have been hearing from the muslims about the Jews or what they called the Zionist.

I believe the Palestinians and Israel should try resolve their differences excluding Hamas.

 

[Alexander_Roman]

Dear Friends,

I think we should let Israel look after its own security (not that it will wait on our approval to do so!).

No other sovereign state in the world would tolerate the kind of meddling into its own affairs that Israel has to put up with.

Peace negotiations are to be encouraged at all times. But the idea that somehow peace will only be established with the destruction of Eretz Israel - that is simply not on the table nor should it ever be.

Christians there will always be blamed for being “lackeys” of the West, and the U.S. in particular. They will be terrorized and killed for the same.

But Israel and the Jewish people have a very special connection to Christianity. We may agree or disagree with this or that policy of the state of Israel, but I think all Christians must stand with the Jewish people.

Alex

 

[crazzeto]

Dear Friends,

I think we should let Israel look after its own security (not that it will wait on our approval to do so!).

No other sovereign state in the world would tolerate the kind of meddling into its own affairs that Israel has to put up with.

Peace negotiations are to be encouraged at all times. But the idea that somehow peace will only be established with the destruction of Eretz Israel - that is simply not on the table nor should it ever be.

Christians there will always be blamed for being “lackeys” of the West, and the U.S. in particular. They will be terrorized and killed for the same.

But Israel and the Jewish people have a very special connection to Christianity. We may agree or disagree with this or that policy of the state of Israel, but I think all Christians must stand with the Jewish people.

Alex

How far should we stand with then? Even if/when what they do violates the law of love established by God and preached by the Christ? I think too many people want to simply dismiss the blood on Israel’s hands merely because of some speacial pride of place they have being the old testament pre-figuring of the people of Christ. But the fact is, if and when Israel is in the wrong, should it just be overlooked? Or should we treat them as we would treat any other national power acting is such ways?

 

[Alexander_Roman]

How far should we stand with then? Even if/when what they do violates the law of love established by God and preached by the Christ? I think too many people want to simply dismiss the blood on Israel’s hands merely because of some speacial pride of place they have being the old testament pre-figuring of the people of Christ. But the fact is, if and when Israel is in the wrong, should it just be overlooked? Or should we treat them as we would treat any other national power acting is such ways?

OK, then perhaps we should begin by criticizing the Canadian and American governments for their actions in Iraq and Afghanistan. Or do we think that there is no blood on our own hands since we are fighting a righteous cause?

Relatives of mine have participated in armed conflicts and a few have died. Contemporary war has nothing romantic in it. Innocent people get killed, wounded and are unjustly treated otherwise. Western armed forces are, so they say, guilty of this as well.

I’m not exonerating anyone, but the fact is that humans make mistakes in armed conflicts, especially when terrorist activities are involved. Regular armies, I don’t have to tell you, aren’t suited for combat with those who use guerilla and terrorist tactics. Not to mention the terror of civilian populations, such as in Israel, when terrorists plant boms in busy marketplaces and at weddings.

But I would ask the Christians of the Middle East who THEY think the real terrorists there are. Would they say “Israel” - out loud, probably. That is because they are afraid of the consequences of being overheard by . . . the terrorists.

Again, it is easy for us here to sit in judgement on Israel. We are ready to identify with those who target Israel and her people. We must also identify with Israel and her people.

And it is not a case of “Israel right or wrong.” I hope that would also not apply to our respective countries either.

But I support Israel as a matter of principle and I display the flag of Israel as a testimony of that support.

If my support is somehow seen as being “bad,” then I’m only too happy to be “guilty as charged.”

My father, a Ukrainian Catholic, helped save Jews during World War II under Pope Pius XII and the “Caritas” organization (truly a magnificent Catholic charitable organization that has done MUCH good in the world). After he died, we received letters from the families of those he helped save (he brought them to Catholic “safe houses” and Caritas did the rest). In his honour, when I had the opportunity, I developed legislation that is now law in Ontario that declared Yom ha-Shoah a provincial day of observance according to the Hebrew lunar calendar.

You may come back to say, “What does any of that have to do with Israel?”

For me, everything. I don’t intend to argue about this, that’s just the way it is for me and for others. As a Catholic Christian, I stand with Israel. Shalom Aleichem.

Alex

 

[crazzeto]

OK, then perhaps we should begin by criticizing the Canadian and American governments for their actions in Iraq and Afghanistan. Or do we think that there is no blood on our own hands since we are fighting a righteous cause?

Yes, exactly and I have always.

Relatives of mine have participated in armed conflicts and a few have died. Contemporary war has nothing romantic in it. Innocent people get killed, wounded and are unjustly treated otherwise. Western armed forces are, so they say, guilty of this as well.

I’m not exonerating anyone, but the fact is that humans make mistakes in armed conflicts, especially when terrorist activities are involved. Regular armies, I don’t have to tell you, aren’t suited for combat with those who use guerilla and terrorist tactics. Not to mention the terror of civilian populations, such as in Israel, when terrorists plant boms in busy marketplaces and at weddings.

But I would ask the Christians of the Middle East who THEY think the real terrorists there are. Would they say “Israel” - out loud, probably. That is because they are afraid of the consequences of being overheard by . . . the terrorists.

You pretend that the Jews are not familiar with Terror… I guess it’s easier not to see when its not directed at you. Moreover there are certain incident which durring the 6 days war, ostensably by mistake, which I find too convinent and make me convinced that Israel is not above attacking US interests when it suiets their needs (USS Liberty).

Again, it is easy for us here to sit in judgement on Israel. We are ready to identify with those who target Israel and her people. We must also identify with Israel and her people.

You don’t need to “sit in the judgment seat” to see wrong doing. You do need to be blind not to see it.

And it is not a case of “Israel right or wrong.” I hope that would also not apply to our respective countries either.

But I support Israel as a matter of principle and I display the flag of Israel as a testimony of that support.

I think at the heart of the quotation is the principal that Isreal should be supported on the merets of it’s existance, as a secular nation. As has been shown more than once in this thread, many faithful jews do not support the existance of Israel on religious grounds, so I find it difficult to use a religious argument to support it’s existance. I support them as a nation, I support their right to exist, but I am also well aware of many wrongs which were commited by them. I’m also well aware (even if it’s very difficult to empithise with them in many cases) of the Palistian people, what they’ve been though, and their right also, to have a homeland.

If my support is somehow seen as being “bad,” then I’m only too happy to be “guilty as charged.”

My father, a Ukrainian Catholic, helped save Jews during World War II under Pope Pius XII and the “Caritas” organization (truly a magnificent Catholic charitable organization that has done MUCH good in the world). After he died, we received letters from the families of those he helped save (he brought them to Catholic “safe houses” and Caritas did the rest). In his honour, when I had the opportunity, I developed legislation that is now law in Ontario that declared Yom ha-Shoah a provincial day of observance according to the Hebrew lunar calendar.

You may come back to say, “What does any of that have to do with Israel?”

For me, everything. I don’t intend to argue about this, that’s just the way it is for me and for others. As a Catholic Christian, I stand with Israel. Shalom Aleichem.

Alex

I’m not calling you a bad person, I’m just exhorting you not to try and use the bible to justify modern Israel.

 

[malphono]

But I would ask the Christians of the Middle East who THEY think the real terrorists there are. Would they say “Israel” - out loud, probably. That is because they are afraid of the consequences of being overheard by . . . the terrorists.

There is a minority of Christians in the Middle East who stand with the oppressors, and they, of course, are predominantly those who identify themselves as ethnic Arabs. Those would, no doubt, answer your question in the affirmative and without equivocation.

OTOH, the large majority of native Christians in the Middle East are not of that ethnic group, and have suffered the consequences of domination by the invaders (and the descendants and co-religionists) of the invaders for centuries. I would venture to say that those would answer the question as you suspect, probably in a whisper with downcast eyes and fingers crossed. Or else they would skirt the question entirely rather than lie.

 

[Alexander_Roman]

Yes, exactly and I have always.

You pretend that the Jews are not familiar with Terror… I guess it’s easier not to see when its not directed at you. Moreover there are certain incident which durring the 6 days war, ostensably by mistake, which I find too convinent and make me convinced that Israel is not above attacking US interests when it suiets their needs (USS Liberty).

You don’t need to “sit in the judgment seat” to see wrong doing. You do need to be blind not to see it.

I think at the heart of the quotation is the principal that Isreal should be supported on the merets of it’s existance, as a secular nation. As has been shown more than once in this thread, many faithful jews do not support the existance of Israel on religious grounds, so I find it difficult to use a religious argument to support it’s existance. I support them as a nation, I support their right to exist, but I am also well aware of many wrongs which were commited by them. I’m also well aware (even if it’s very difficult to empithise with them in many cases) of the Palistian people, what they’ve been though, and their right also, to have a homeland.

I’m not calling you a bad person, I’m just exhorting you not to try and use the bible to justify modern Israel.

Actually, I don’t think I’ve ever used the Bible here. The Jehovah’s Witnesses and the Mormons have almost turned me off the Bible .

I’m not disagreeing with you. But I stand with Israel and her people. I don’t see how one can do that on a spiritual plane without doing that on a secular plane. There are things to critique about every nation and government. But Israel is our ally, spiritually and politically.

Shalom Aleichem!

Alex