Commentary: "Why American Children Stopped Believing in God"

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ritajo said:
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Gorgias:
Just to our north (yeah, I know, I’m not talking about 'murrica anymore), we see that some religious speech has already been adjudicated against as “hate speech”…
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Canada?? Care to clarify for this Canuck what lawsuit/court case you are referencing?
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A Google search on “Christian hate speech in Canada” turns up many examples.
 
This incident happened when I was in 6th grade. The teacher was a strict Baptist and during the meeting with my mother and the principal and me, she kept saying that she was just trying to save me! The principal was definitely on our side and there were very few Jewish students at the school but he didn’t appreciate her position. This took place in Florida which is absolutely in the Bible Belt. She really didn’t think she had done anything wrong. School prayer was legal and the children were required to say it each morning. The solution was to switch me into a different class. I have no idea what would have happened if there hadn’t been another class!

I admired the heck out of my mom…usually, the teacher was always right…but not this time. The problem was the law and two years later, school prayer was no longer allowed…to the horror of many Christians. Even today, I’ll hear someone mention that school prayer should be returned to the classroom. Asking which prayer usually is The Lords Prayer. What if it’s a prayer to Allah or the Shema? Of course not those prayers! 😱😱😱

I could handle the remarks from other kids and would usually ignore them. It was a bullying tactic like any other, just using Judaism instead of something else. But, teachers were respected authority figures and should never abuse their position, including today using atheism or any other religion as motivation. It’s outside their authority!

Btw, the first time I learned about Jesus was when I came home and told mom that I was called a Christ killer. We had a long talk about what Christians believe, who Jesus was and how wrong that statement was. When I was called that, I had no idea!
 
Yes, the 1960’s in Florida is a whole nother world back then. Segregation was still in force as well. I remember seeing a drinking fountain that said Colored on it. I was so disappointed it didn’t produce colored water! Mom had to explain that one, too. :hugs:
 
JMMJ said:
It is no different for anyone else, whether you are religious or not. Parents should work hard to keep communication open and constant when people outside of the family present different views. Great conversations about beliefs and values can follow.
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I agree that a one-time incident/conflict will not destroy a child’s religion or world view.

But a constant slanting of all learning materials–discussions and media–towards a worldview that excludes God and religion–will definitely shape a child’s world view.

If the parents are strong in their faith, and their faith is vibrant, intellectual, inclusive, and a constant comfort and source of strength, AND if the parents are able to communicate this faith to their children and pass it on to them with the child’s full and active consent–then the child will no doubt be able to discern that their school materials are flawed. More importantly, they will be able to discern when it is important to raise the issue in the classroom with the teacher and other students, and when it is important to stay quiet and “let it go.”

But many parents are not particularly good at communicating their religious faith to their children, and are even worse at living their faith in an appealing, welcoming way. Many parents are struggling with their faith, even if they choose to hold onto it and keep working on incorporating it into their everyday lives. And sadly, many Christian parents split up–the divorce rate among Christians is pretty much the same as among non-Christians.

I would say that MOST Christian parents fall into this camp of “strugging with faith,” not so much what they believe, but how to live it in their daily lives. What this means is that they will NOT be highly-effective examples for their own children and a source of accurate information when their children have questions about their family’s faith. Parent with a lukewarm faith may even tip their child towards the worldview that their school is teaching every day/every year.
 
Peeps said:
But when the public schools fail to reinforce what parents are teaching at home, or even worse, when public schools UNDERMINE what parents are teaching at home, society fragments.
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How does a teacher reinforce the varied lessons that 30+ students all receive at home? How do you reinforce the home lessons Muslim students received while also reinforcing the lessons Catholic, Protestant, Buddhist, atheist, etc. students received?
 
I guess this is a strong case for affordable, private, Catholic schools. The Church has its work cut out for it.
 
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Dan123 said:
How does a teacher reinforce the varied lessons that 30+ students all receive at home? How do you reinforce the home lessons Muslim students received while also reinforcing the lessons Catholic, Protestant, Buddhist, atheist, etc. students received?
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That is one of the drawbacks of diversity; it was one reason that Catholic schools were established in the first place.
 
Peeps said:
Parent with a lukewarm faith may even tip their child towards the worldview that their school is teaching every day/every year.
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I’m nonplussed by this ‘worldview that their school is teaching’. Like maths and history? Geography?

If a specific teacher is teaching your kids moral positions (as opposed to giving them information about aspects of life that might contradict your personal views on morality) then simply take it up with the school. It shouldn’t be their position to directly contradict or promote any religious beliefs. End of story.
 
I had a devout Baptist as a fifth-grade teacher in public school. He wasn’t shy about telling us that alcohol had never touched his lips, etc. He was also Texan and had quite an accent.

For some reason though, he didn’t approve of the pledge of allegiance and would always say “I pledge allegiance to the United States of a milk cow”.
 
Pattylt said:
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mercyalways:
Nor did the gays who sued Catholic schools.
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I tried looking for this lawsuit and wasn’t successful. If you have a link, I’d appreciate it.

I have a feeling there are probably going to be more lawsuits as the courts try to figure out where the lines need to be drawn. I can understand, even if I don’t agree, religious schools wanting their teachers to follow and obey the churches morality. They are considered to be in a ministerial position.
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How about this - two gay teachers “married” to each other. Each works in a different Catholic high school. One gets fired, one doesn’t.
Here’s the aftermath:

 
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There’s a perfect example of trying to define where the lines should be drawn! I think the lower courts will be all over the place until the Supreme Court sets those lines. Where they’ll end up, I haven’t a clue…it might not happen before I die but, eventually, it will.

That’s why I don’t get outraged over many of these decisions…they’re still in flux. Eventually, both sides of these issues will know where the lines are and most likely, neither side will be happy. But, at least well know where they are! That’s our biggest problem right now. The unknown lines.
 
Now that there is precedent, I bet it will be extended to high schools. I actually have no problem with this ruling for teachers or other educators of children. If they try to extend it to the janitors, then I’ll object! :hugs:
 
Dan123 said:
How does a teacher reinforce the varied lessons that 30+ students all receive at home? How do you reinforce the home lessons Muslim students received while also reinforcing the lessons Catholic, Protestant, Buddhist, atheist, etc. students received?
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By taking care to teach facts, not viewpoints. If viewpoints are included in the teaching (as they should be at the high school level, at least), they should be clearly described as “viewpoints,” not facts, and the ALTERNATIVE viewpoints should be taught, too–and all should be taught with respect and no sneering or eye-rolls.

Easy enough.

A good education should include a variety of viewpoints and the students should be taught how to process varying viewpoints of history, science, literature, etc. and respect viewpoints that do not agree with their life philosophy and religion.
 
Peeps said:
Easy enough.
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It’s really not though. While there’s often a clear line between fact and viewpoint there’s a lot of gray area too. And do you teach all the viewpoints? What about ones that conflict with facts? Are conclusions drawn from facts also facts, always viewpoints, or sometimes both or neither?

Are you holding all schools to this standard?
 
You want to know what I think “should” happen? I think we Catholics “should” stop using the word “should” except when talking about ourselves (example: “I really should quit telling God what He ‘should’ allow to happen,” hint hint). Read Trustful Surrender to Divine Providence and/or Abandonment to Divine Providence (both available online for free) to see what I’m talking about, as they have explained the Church’s position far better than I could.
 
Just a disclaimer about the book though - some claims surruonding it that were accepted and spread for a time were that God literally causes all the pain we experience when something bad happens to us, not just that He allows it. This would be false though - not necessarily saying the book supports that idea or that you’re saying this, but this is a potential hurdle associated with some understandings of divine providence that I’ve unfortunately come across.

I’t’s important to keep in mind that God Himself dislikes it when we suffer, and mostly just allows suffering for a greater good in order to out-chess it, so to speak.
 
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