Commentary: "Why American Children Stopped Believing in God"

[NormalBeliever]

But it’s a real (and important) difference - there’s a reason why a distinction is generally made between God’s permissive will and active will. Some things (like suffering) God doesn’t actually actively cause or want but allows for other reasons, while the existence of creation or miracles is something He directly actualises. It’s also related to the distinction between primary and secondary causality - God is the primary cause in the sense of sustaining all things in existence, while created beings exercise their secondary causal powers proper to them, so that it’s really the sun that melts the ice cube rather than God. God is the ultimate cause in being the sustainer of the whole created order, but this can’t lead to confusing the two causal orders and attributing to God what actually belongs to creation, or vice versa.

 

[TC3033]

I dont think I agree with this.

But…I don’t really believe this.

It’s interesting that you’ll tell someone who’s been around the profession for almost 20 years that they don’t believe them. That’s interestingly odd.

If what you’re saying is true, then we need to get these kids out of school. They are wasting resources, tax monies, donations, professionals’ time, and making it more difficult for other motivated kids to learn.

I believe that ALL children, including children with terrible parents, can learn to read, write, and do enough basic arithmetic to be able to work and live.

I think what’s needed is to re-think the way we educate children and figure out ways that we can educate those who got stuck with incompetent parents.

You’re correct on both accounts. The stories I’m telling you come from someone who teaches “outside the box”. These kids were removed from “mainstream” high school as they were failing/struggling so much. They were moved to what is called an Alternative Learning Center (ALC), which offers smaller class sizes and teachers that are more equipped to work with them.

Educators have been working on this with children on the autism spectrum for years now, and it seems to be working.

Yes, most of which are on an IEP (Individualized Education Program). I can’t see every child from a broken home getting an IEP.

In our city (might be our state), ALL low-income children are eligible to attend Head Start programs.

We also have a United Way program called “Move the Middle,”

Wouldn’t that still require parental assistance? They still need to sign the child up (I’m assuming) as well as get them to and from.

A lot of kids get in trouble in academics because they miss out on something important–perhaps they get sick and miss two weeks of middle school and when they come back, their math class is way ahead of them and they just can’t catch up or figure out the new skills. To me, this is on the TEACHER. They need to help the child get back on track again.

Eh…that’s a case by case basis, and I wouldn’t put the whole ownership on the teacher. If a student was out that long, they should be doing some homework/school work from home (and in this day in age, zooming in). When I went to high-school on the mean streets in the 90’s, this is where an ALC could also come into play.

I just don’t believe kids who got the short end of the stick are uneducable. I think we need to figure out how to educate them and just do it.

I don’t either, this is also why I don’t believe in standardized testing as a measuring stick of what a kid can and can’t do.

 

[TC3033]

When I grew up, public schools celebrated Christmas and Hanukkah, including recognizing that Christmas was the birthday of Jesus Christ, and Hanukkah celebrated a miracle from God. Eventually Kwanzaa was added.

Ditto, in the 80’s. By the time I got into middle and high-school through the 90’s, it was Winter Break and we understood why.

Now, children celebrate “Winter holiday.” Mention of Christmas is verboten, and mention of Hanukkah is tolerated. Kwanzaa is still acceptable.

Disagree

But the absence of any recognition of the 2000 year-old tradition of Christmas and other “religious” holidays by adults who are preparing you for life and whose salaries are PAID FOR by the PARENTS (taxes)

I’d recommend taking that up with the “law of the land, for which land you live in”.

Really, what’s the difference between denying Christmas, and denying the Holocaust, or denying that racism is still common in the U.S.?

It’s apples to oranges, and IMHO a hell of a stretch trying to compare people who don’t believe in Christmas to Holocaust Deniers. I’d put Holocaust Deniers in with Flat Earthers.

To ignore all this in a public school is creating ignorance and, IMO, intolerance for those who do not fit into the acceptable mold.

Again, that’s something to take up with the law of the land.

 

[TC3033]

But when the public schools fail to reinforce what parents are teaching at home, or even worse, when public schools UNDERMINE what parents are teaching at home, society fragments.

How are they undermining what parents are teaching at home?

Parents and grandparents lose “authority” over their children–authority that GOD has given to them–if you believe the Bible–as the children are forced to choose between their parents and their school systems/teachers/peers. Many children will choose their peers.

This is preposterous. Kids don’t have to choose between the school system and their parents.

I know that some children can and do speak up if a teacher makes a comment implying that God doesn’t exist, or that all gods are equal, or other comments that undermine a child’s religion.

Can you give a specific example? I don’t buy that it happens, especially frequently at all. In most cases it’s a fire able offense.

A child spends 6 hours (at least) a day under the influence of someone who has school curricula that is obviously (to anyone with any level of discernment) opposed to the religion and philosophies of their parent.

LOL, then how/why is it that so many Christians are school teachers? You want to know who the largest employer is for the Parish community here (it’s the public school system). So you’re saying that Christian teachers are specifically (and knowingly) teaching a curriculum opposed to religion? I find that a bit of a reach.

BUT…if the teacher, like so many in the teachers’ unions, is committed to the godless, human-centered, revisionist philosophies that saturate current curricula–families are in trouble.

If the parents are strong in their faith, and their faith is vibrant, intellectual, inclusive, and a constant comfort and source of strength, AND if the parents are able to communicate this faith to their children and pass it on to them with the child’s full and active consent–then the child will no doubt be able to discern that their school materials are flawed.

Which school materials would that be?

A good education should include a variety of viewpoints and the students should be taught how to process varying viewpoints of history, science, literature, etc. and respect viewpoints that do not agree with their life philosophy and religion.

I get discussing viewpoints when it comes to literature (that’s basically what a lot of lit classes are), but what are differing viewpoints on pretty fact driven subjects like history, and especially science??

 

[stpurl]

One question to you: Are you a parent who has school aged children currently, or who have been through school and are now adults?

If you are, you have an idea about what Peeps has said.

If you aren’t, then with respect, a person who has no experience with the situation in this particular instance, that of being the parent of children in schools then you don’t have a horse in this race.

I have a brother who has had no children. He, of course, is the perfect parent whose advice is always correct with regard to how a parent should act, how children should behave, etc, because he is all theory and no practice. He is the first to criticize any parent or any child who goes against what he believes ‘should be’ because he has no experience of anything but what he is told is ‘correct’, and so he has absolutely no understanding of, or sympathy for, anything which contradicts his totally ‘theoretical’ views.

These are the armchair parents who (hopefully without realizing it) are among the main reasons that society is so clueless and why ‘experts’ can foist constant reams of totally contradictory ‘advice’ which has ended up with most parents (and most of us are responsible and loving parents) being bombarded with ‘guilting’ over how, had we simply ‘done X” or ‘been open to Y”, we would have had perfect children instead of the ‘monsters’ which 20th century parents have raised (totally against society, of course) based on our ignorance, apathy, and either blind holding to hoary traditions OR blind acceptance of new ideas —which of course turned out to be wrong and which we should have foreseen were wrong and rejected, blah blah blah.

And THAT is what Peeps and others mean by school and society ‘vs’ parents.

No matter if parents are liberal or conservative, authoritarian or adaptive, religious or non religious, helicopter or ‘free range’, we are not perfect and our children are not perfect, so there will always be an incident or a situation where we can be made into the ‘fault’. If our children do something wrong they will be vilified based on socioeconomics or whatever the ‘ruling elite’ of the city, state, or feds deem ‘wrong’, but if they’re lucky enough to be a protected class then only the PARENTS will be faulted.

Look I’m not saying that this never happened prior to the 1980s or so. But in the last 4 decades society itself has done a U turn regarding its expectations and this has resulted in a much wider base of ‘guilting’, many more entitled children, a much weaker family, and untold misery. . .with very little in the way of building family strengths or all the many many things we are told through the schools and other experts should be the benefits of following whatever the policy du jour or the latest experiment or adjustment is supposed to be.

 

[TC3033]

Are you a parent who has school aged children currently, or who have been through school and are now adults?

Yes, I have two kids in school. One in middle school, one in the middle of elementary school and one about ready for kindergarten. My wife is a 20 year “veteran” of teaching in the public school system, my sister longer and my two SIL’s about 10 years. I’ve been around the block a time or two.

I have a brother who has had no children. He, of course, is the perfect parent…

They all are, then it’s funny when karma bites 'em.

But in the last 4 decades society itself has done a U turn

You’re right…I myself went through school in the last 4 decades. I and my wife consider ourselves a “dying breed” of parent.

many more entitled children, a much weaker family, and untold misery. . .with very little in the way of building family strengths

That’s a parenting problem.

all the many many things we are told through the schools and other experts should be the benefits of following whatever the policy du jour or the latest experiment or adjustment is supposed to be.

I see that as a cop out, especially blaming the schools. What’s currently the “policy dujour”? I haven’t seen anything from school.

we would have had perfect children instead of the ‘monsters’ which 20th century parents have raised (totally against society, of course) based on our ignorance, apathy, and either blind holding to hoary traditions OR blind acceptance of new ideas —which of course turned out to be wrong and which we should have foreseen were wrong and rejected, blah blah blah.

I must have missed that part. Our children are raised the same way that we were in the 80’s and 90’s… What I see is a lot of “millennial” parents who’s kids are “missing the boat” so to speak with a complete and utter coddledness that is coming from home. Do you know how many times these parents go to the school and complain about how a teacher can let little Suzie or Johnny fail a class…when Suzie or Johnny aren’t doing any work?

Hell, the best stuff I see now are these parents and their dependence upon social media. Little Suzie or Johnny comes home and tells their mom about what Ms/Mr. Teacher made the class do for a punishment (which is totally something we’ve all lived through), now the parent runs to the community facebook page and blurts out her kids’ side of the story. Ya, some pretty cringe worthy stuff.