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ALLFORHIM
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Right back at yaI know the song
Thanks ALL, you are a blessing!
:hug3:
I love that song and try to live by what the words are saying.Point of Grace is my favorite christian group:thumbsup:
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:hug3: I love that song and try to live by what the words are saying.Point of Grace is my favorite christian group:thumbsup:
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ALLFORHIM
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Well in a sense your right it is probably not good enough, but dont you think Christ would want us to embrace the commonalities and then just discuss(without nastiness)the differences?
I cant find it but their is a verse that talks about the fact that we will not agree on all aspects of our faith. I think it is in the OT but maybe not and that is why I cant find it:blush: It has something to do with Jot and tittle or something like thatâanyone know?
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AaronsStaff
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I somewhat disagree with this, The Catholic Church has dogmatically defined Abortion and ABC as grave evils, this can never be changed and it will last until the second coming, how can you be more anti-abortion and anti-birth control than that?
If youre talking about individuals, maybe this may be true, but we must take into account Catholics that dont practice their faith, I wouldnt consider them authentic Catholics, and their views would be invalid in my opinion; In the same way im sure devout Jews cant stand the liberal views of those of the same heritage in hollywood. So I Think youll find that among Catholics who go to mass ever sunday, there will a much wider difference between Catholics and protestants on these issues, meaning Catholics will have alot more numbers going against these issues compared to protestants.
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IrishAm
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For many of us, the Protestant churches in which we received our spiritual formation provided a firm foundation for the journey to our home within the Catholic Church. I find, despite both the rhetoric and obvious reasons for the schism, Christian believers on the whole share far more fundamental beliefs than they hold in opposition. It is also my experience that, despite any evidence to the contrary which I have seen on this thread, most are respectful of the sincere faith of other Christians. It must grieve God greatly to see us estranged from one another.
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Bennie_P
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We have a lot in common, may I suggest that all who are participating in this thread read the follow links. The first one was given to me by my protestant pastor just before I came in full communion with the Catholic Church. Though I am very much Catholic now I havenât given up my friendships and associations with my protestant brothers and sisters. We do find common ground and it is based on the love of and through Christ.
Evangelicals & Catholics Together: The Christian Mission in the Third Millennium
Other statements
The Call to Holiness
by: A Statement of Evangelicals and Catholics Together
March 2005
**The Communion of Saints **
by: A Statement of Evangelicals and Catholics Together
March 2003
**Your Word Is Truth **
by: Evangelicals and Catholics Together
August/September 2002
Please take time and read these statements - Though I want to see all to be in full communion with Rome, we all have much in common and a foundation for mutual love and respect for each other. that foundation is Jesus Christ.
PAX
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Kitty_Chan
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(I will get to those readings and there was also a link earlier for a dvd you have to purchase but one can download the study guide.)
I do want to bring up something that always picks in the back of my head and that is children. Now if you dont have them its a little harder, to see things from a parental view.
I sometimes think God allowed us to have children is so we can feel in a tiny way what He feels like. To have a life in front of you, and hope it will grow, you dont want to smother it, in fact you would like to, but you cannot. And when you have several children its even stronger feelings. You do love these children, all of them.
When children grow up they all are different, some quiet, others noisy. Talents, abilities, hopes, dreams, are different with each of them. In disipline one you have to not spare that rod, cause they are hard headed, the other you speak and they are in tears. We are different, thats the way we are made.
We also learn differently, some like the chaos when things are exciting, some like it quiet and organized, some like a little of both, some would rather learn in a ordinary place with no distractions, others sit in a coffee shop and read and talk. Some are visual, need examples, props, reading themselves, or read to, some like me write when I listen, we are not the same.
When Fathers day comes up, each child will have a different way to show love to their Father. One may make something, one buy something. But both will be accomplishing the same thing. Loving the Father. They will probably even argue about who loves the Father more, and vie for attention. But when they are both in His arms they both know they are Loved.
One, but not the same
and just as any good earthly Father will love his children, wasnt it said that our Heavenly Father would do more, in fact was the model for the earthly dad? Therefore children would be the model for us, to know our Heavenly Dad? We were to what?
We are rather good at the fights in the backyard, and tattling on whos not good enough. That part we have. But what about the other part? Where, while were not the same, all thats forgotten when we sit at His feet and listen. Thats when we become one.
I do want to bring up something that always picks in the back of my head and that is children. Now if you dont have them its a little harder, to see things from a parental view.
I sometimes think God allowed us to have children is so we can feel in a tiny way what He feels like. To have a life in front of you, and hope it will grow, you dont want to smother it, in fact you would like to, but you cannot. And when you have several children its even stronger feelings. You do love these children, all of them.
When children grow up they all are different, some quiet, others noisy. Talents, abilities, hopes, dreams, are different with each of them. In disipline one you have to not spare that rod, cause they are hard headed, the other you speak and they are in tears. We are different, thats the way we are made.
We also learn differently, some like the chaos when things are exciting, some like it quiet and organized, some like a little of both, some would rather learn in a ordinary place with no distractions, others sit in a coffee shop and read and talk. Some are visual, need examples, props, reading themselves, or read to, some like me write when I listen, we are not the same.
When Fathers day comes up, each child will have a different way to show love to their Father. One may make something, one buy something. But both will be accomplishing the same thing. Loving the Father. They will probably even argue about who loves the Father more, and vie for attention. But when they are both in His arms they both know they are Loved.
One, but not the same
and just as any good earthly Father will love his children, wasnt it said that our Heavenly Father would do more, in fact was the model for the earthly dad? Therefore children would be the model for us, to know our Heavenly Dad? We were to what?We are rather good at the fights in the backyard, and tattling on whos not good enough. That part we have. But what about the other part? Where, while were not the same, all thats forgotten when we sit at His feet and listen. Thats when we become one.
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Mannyfit75
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There is no common ground. The only common ground that Catholic have are those with the Eastern Orthodox.
Protestants for the most part ignore Mary.
Protestants for the most part ignore Mary.
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30miller
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Just a word of caution to others regarding the editor-in-chief (Fr Neuhaus) of your first reference - First Things (i.e. not the referenced article, but the publication in general as regards this topic - which it devotes a lot of print space to, probably itâs number one topic) . The New Oxford Review has challenged him on his - letâs call it over-zealousness - in regard to ecumenism with our separated brethren. His responses to that criticism have been weak, to say the least. For a start on that legitimate criticism you can go to newoxfordreview.org/note.jsp?did=0704-notes-rejection
On all other topics, I have found Fr Neihausâs opining to be very enlightening and I profit greatly from listening to him and reading him.
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Singinbeauty
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Is that all that the catholic church is about Manny? According to your quote above we donât have common ground because protestants ignore Mary âfor the most partâ (whatever this means). If this is the only thing that keeps us from having common ground does this mean that is all you concentrate on in the catholic church?
My guess is no. You just donât want to have common ground with protestants for whatever reason.
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dessert
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I think you are refering to every detail of dotting the i and crossing the t.Well in a sense your right it is probably not good enough, but dont you think Christ would want us to embrace the commonalities and then just discuss(without nastiness)the differences?
I cant find it but their is a verse that talks about the fact that we will not agree on all aspects of our faith. I think it is in the OT but maybe not and that is why I cant find it:blush: It has something to do with Jot and tittle or something like thatâanyone know?
In Aramaic the position of that little dot can turn the meaning of the word.
Luke 16; 5-8
The manager was able to change the notes with a dot and he did so and planned for his future at the same time by discounting the debts owed to his master in order to obligate the debtors to himself. Was he dishonest? Was he giving away what really belonged to this master, or was he forgoing interest payments his master did not have a right to charge? Originanally the manager may have overcharged the debtors, a common way of circumventing the Mosaic Law, which prohibited from taking interest from fellow Jews(see Ex. 22;25-27)and ( Lev 25;26)So he returned hte debts to their original amount more than likely.
Matthew 5; 18
Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth passs away, not the smallest letter of the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, untill all things have taken place.
The greek word *iota *(translated here âsmallest letterâ ) is the nearest Greek equivalent to the Hebrew yodh, the smallest letter of the Hebrew alphabet. The Greek word hereas âleast stroke of a penâ means âhornâ and was used to to designate the slight embellishment or extension of certin lettersof the Hebrew alphabet( somewhat like the bottom (descender) of the letter j)
The âpassing awayâ of heaven and earth is not necessarilly the end of the world understood, as in much apocalyptic literature, as the dissolution of the existing universe. The âturning of the agesâ comes from the apocalyic event of Jesusâ death and resurrection, and those to whom this gospel is addressed are living in the new and final age, prophesied by Isaiah as the time of ânew heavens and a new earthâ (Is 65; 17 & 66;22).
Dessert
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Bennie_P
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Manny you might find this article interesting.
Evangelicals and the Mother of God
Of course we must use discerment in all that we do, but I have been to able get a few of my protestant brothers to start carrying Hail Mary prayer cards and to read Hail, Holy Queen by Scott Hahn.
They still donât have the same type of appreciation of Mary as many Catholics but it has been a while since Iâve been accused of worshiping of Mary instead of Jesus, so something good must be happening.
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St_Violet
Guest
the way it actually is, is what is inside of the can determines what it should be labeled.well thanks for including me in your labeling
Im glad Im classified, and stuck on your shelf. Makes it easier to deal with things making them all neat and tidy, labels turned out in order.
But, do you ever read whats inside, or open up the cans and look? See what makes up the contents??
If you follow your labels of the different churches, the sterotypical labels youve applied do nothing for the unity of Christiandom.
Perhaps we could try the same list but lets use race instead, then say they all should be white as its meant to be.
That ought to get the unity ball rolling.
if you open a can and realize there is campelâs chicken noodles soup, then you should label it as chicken noodle soup
just like, if you understand a christianâs methods and understanding Faith and teachings like say for instance, a christian believes the bible is the final and only authority then obviously the label has already been established.
do you attend a non-denominational church?
and i accidently misquoted
âthe moe you rebel against labels, the more the closer you are to themâ
perhaps you wonât understand what Iâm trying to explain, itâs just the best way I could express my understanding from when I too was against these âlabelsâ, at a point of time I didnât even like to label myself a christian , I referred to myself as âa follower of Christâ
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water
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We both agree Mary is very blessed.
Half of the prayer âHail Maryâ are found on both Bibles.
Many call the place we come to worship God âchurchâ.
We both need to have faith and trust in the Lord.
We both ask to pray for one another.
We repent when we make mistake (is it true?)
Most part of the Lord prayer is the same for both.
When we both fill out Government form and being ask for name of our father, we know it is our dadâs name.
Not the name of the Father and not the name of our parish priest either.
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Bennie_P
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Thanks for the article, but I think Fr Neuhaus wouldnât have converted to the Catholic Church if he didnât believe that is the ultimate need of all in the long run and his idea of ecumenism is based on short term goals of Christian unity, in order to work together on political and social concerns, not to be confused with watering down the faith of Catholics - I could be wrong. One thing I keep in mind is my own conversion to the Catholic Church - which I believe was prompt by God to my understanding of His will in my life and how He used a protestant minister to tell me I just may be right to do so. which I know without doubt I had no other choice, if I was to follow Godâs will.
Part of that understanding for me is based on what I percieve as the power of the Holy Spirit in bringing me and others into that understanding of Godâs will, as individuals and as members of His Church. Otherwise, everthing happens in Godâs time, even when it comes to conversion and following His will into full communion with Rome by submitting to the authority of the Church.
These following two verses I had been meditating over a period of time, then one I day I realized I had no choice but to become Catholic.
John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father, who hath sent me, draw him. And I will raise him up in the last day.
DRB
No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day.NIV
John 6:65 (6:66) And he said: Therefore did I say to you that no man can come to me, unless it be given him by my Father.
DRB
He went on to say, âThis is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled him.â NIV
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Atemi
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I see what you are saying but the poster I responded to clearly said this:
âIn all due respect to RedSoxFan, I donât think Protestants in general are as Pro-Life as Catholics.â
What RC teaching is on paper is good and all, but we are talking about actual people and what they believe and practice.
What is happening in reality is far from the theory. It seems Protestants in general are as pro-life, if not more so, than Catholics.
Well, picking and choosing the Catholics and Protestants that we personally approve of only serves to pad the results in opposition to finding out the reality in the streets. I am sure that you may choose every pro-life Catholic you can find to be the only ones to answer that poll, but the truth would clearly just fly out of the window.
NoâŚthe Catholics were not cherry picked by other Catholics who will arbitrarily determine if they âqualifyââŚand neither were the Protestants that responded.
I donât think ignoring the reality this poll is addressing is the wisest course of action, IMO, though I am aware that it may be very easy to do.
âŚ
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30miller
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Though I find myself in agreement with you on the overwhelming majority of your posts - I do think you are wrong on this one. I only linked the one New Oxford Review article. There were many - including back-and-forth responses between the NOR and First Things/Fr Neuhaus. (Some printed in one or the other - and referred to in both).You might want to read them yourself.
The issue they address is most clearly reunification of Christianity - and not political and social concerns of same. Fr Neuhaus has written voluminously on this topic over the years. And the NOR correctly questioned some of those writings. And despite the fact that Fr Neuhaus is a convert himself - he writes that it is possible that for the reunification of Christianity to take place which doesnât necessarily require that formal conversion (as he himself did) to The Church - i.e. that some sort of co-existence is possible. Check it out for yourself. I only wanted to post a warning for others to watch out for this particular issue in articles in First Things - a periodical which I subscribe to and enjoy very much otherwise. Fr Neuhaus is a good man and I donât mean to disparage him - I and the NOR just think he is off the mark on this issue.
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O.S.Luke
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I still donât see how this excuses a statement such as your earlier one: âA only good Protestant is an Ex-Protestant turn Catholic.â
Weâre no good, Manny? Really? Isnât that a slight against God who created everything and called it good? And doesnât such a statement such as yours go against Catholic teaching?
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Nella
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That is not true at all Manny. Your generalizations arenât doing your credibility any good. Check up on Anglican church doctrine. Where do we say Mary is now and what is she??
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O.S.Luke
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RevDrNorth
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