"communicatio in sacris"

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Monica4316

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I was reading this article, christendom-awake.org/pages/thomas-crean/praying-with-non-catholics.htm and it says that traditionally, Catholics are not allowed to participate in common worship with non Catholics, even though there are some exceptions (praying the Our Father together with your non Catholic family, etc). It says that if a Catholic is visiting a non Catholic church, by necessity, they should not participate in active worship. The other exception, based on VII is that it’s alright to pray for unity with other Christians, but it seems that in that case, Catholic priests should be present and should lead the Catholic prayers.

I started thinking, in the case IF a Catholic has participated in ‘active’ worship together with non Catholics… (without receiving Communion) - are they under some sort of anathema that should be lifted by a special prayer? Or, is Confession enough for them to get back into communion with the Church?

I’ve done this in the past that is why I am wondering… I don’t want to be excommunicated without knowing it lol. :eek:

My other question is… I posted this in Apologetics but haven’t gotten many replies. If worship with non Catholics is discouraged, what about Christian worship concerts? they are not like ordinary concerts, rather people there actually participate and sing praise and worship songs. However, most of the audience is usually Protestant. Does this fall under communicatio in sacris? this article would suggest so? latinmassmagazine.com/articles/articles_2006_AC_Allan.html does anyone know…

In addition… in that last article, it says that Catholics can’t attend funerals of non Catholics… but I have heard otherwise? and what about family members and friends?

sorry so many questions… but I would appreciate any help because I’m kind of confused about this.

thanks 🙂

ps: please i’m looking for the traditional Catholic view, not personal opinions… thank you!
 
I am not sure about all of your, questions. However the LMM article you posted was a summary of the regulations (what and why) from 1622 to 1939. It is impossible to determine from that article, what the rules are for Catholics today.
 
Thanks for the reply… I think possibly that the first article is the current teaching? since it mentions VII.
 
Monica4316 said:
I was reading this article, christendom-awake.org/pages/thomas-crean/praying-with-non-catholics.htm and it says that traditionally, Catholics are not allowed to participate in common worship with non Catholics, even though there are some exceptions (praying the Our Father together with your non Catholic family, etc). It says that if a Catholic is visiting a non Catholic church, by necessity, they should not participate in active worship. The other exception, based on VII is that it’s alright to pray for unity with other Christians, but it seems that in that case, Catholic priests should be present and should lead the Catholic prayers.

I started thinking, in the case IF a Catholic has participated in ‘active’ worship together with non Catholics… (without receiving Communion) - are they under some sort of anathema that should be lifted by a special prayer? Or, is Confession enough for them to get back into communion with the Church?

I’ve done this in the past that is why I am wondering… I don’t want to be excommunicated without knowing it lol. :eek:

My other question is… I posted this in Apologetics but haven’t gotten many replies. If worship with non Catholics is discouraged, what about Christian worship concerts? they are not like ordinary concerts, rather people there actually participate and sing praise and worship songs. However, most of the audience is usually Protestant. Does this fall under communicatio in sacris? this article would suggest so? latinmassmagazine.com/articles/articles_2006_AC_Allan.html does anyone know…

In addition… in that last article, it says that Catholics can’t attend funerals of non Catholics… but I have heard otherwise? and what about family members and friends?

sorry so many questions… but I would appreciate any help because I’m kind of confused about this.

thanks 🙂

ps: please i’m looking for the traditional Catholic view, not personal opinions… thank you!
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You might want to read something a little bit more recent - such as 1993’s DIRECTORY FOR THE APPLICATION OF PRINCIPLES AND NORMS ON ECUMENISM
 
I was also researching this matter recently, and was similarly unable to come to a conclusion based on research. I also found the first link you mention (and love it for all the saint quotes!). It seems like the most thorough. From everything I found, it seems it’s ok to go on special occasions, such as weddings and funerals, but not to a regular Sunday worship. A traditional minded priest (FSP) suggested seeking the advice of the Diocese when I informed him of the situation I was facing, with Protesting in-laws.
 
Phemie said:
You might want to read something a little bit more recent - such as 1993’s DIRECTORY FOR THE APPLICATION OF PRINCIPLES AND NORMS ON ECUMENISM
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It used to be a moral doctrine that Catholics could not actively worship at non-Catholic services*; doing so was a sin against faith and was called “indifferentism” (see The New St. Joseph Baltimore Catechism, qq. 205-206). What’s more, Catholics who did so were suspected of heresy, according to the 1917 Code of Canon Law. The Holy Office, a Roman (Pontifical) congregation, stated that communicatio in sacris was against the divine and natural law, and that NO ONE could dispense with it.

The 1993 Declaration (par. 118 ) contradicts previous – and still binding – judgments of the Holy Office.
  • Numerous Church Fathers and theologians could be shown to teach this doctrine; it’s not a mere practice or discipline that can change, as can clerical celibacy.
P.S. - As a matter of course, I’d follow the LMM article, which gives the clear and constant teaching of the Church (backed up by the witness of so many Fathers).
 
SouthpawLink said:
The Holy Office, a Roman (Pontifical) congregation, stated that communicatio in sacris was against the divine and natural law, and that NO ONE could dispense with it.
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Do you have a reference for this?
 
It is hard to disagree with SouthpawLink, given that the Church taught this constantly from 1622-1939. Would you rather go with the last 18 years of vague teaching, or 315 years-worth of wisdom from Rome? The longer a doctrine or dogma is confessed without changing, the more likely it is to be true. We’ve moved in a direction totally contrary to the old. How dispiriting.
 
Just_Lurking said:
Do you have a reference for this?
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It’s in the article by Craig Allan:
The Holy Office therefore observed that the Council of Carthage forbade praying and singing (psallendum) with heretics.22 The Supreme Congregation stated that participation in schismatic and heretic worship is "universally prohibited by natural and divine law…[from which] no one has the power to dispense …[and with respect to this participation] nothing excuses."23 Those who so participate must seek absolution in the sacrament of penance.24
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  1. Collectanea S. Congregationis de Propaganda Fidei seu Decreta Instructiones Rescripta pro Apostolicis Missionibus (Ex Typographia Polyglotta, Roma, 1907), vol. I, p. 642, n. 1176 (1859).
  2. Col., vol. I, p. 100, n. 311 (1729).
  3. Ibid.
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latinmassmagazine.com/articles/articles_2006_AC_Allan.html
 
thanks for the replies, well does anyone know if going to Confession is enough to be forgiven for this? if a Catholic has done this in the past. Just wanted to know 🙂
 
According to the 1917 Code of Canon Law:

“Canon 1258. It is unlawful for the faithful to assist in any active manner, or to take part in the sacred services of non-Catholics. At funerals of non-Catholics, at their marriages, and similar solemnities, provided there is no danger of perversion or scandal, passive or merely material presence on account of a civil office or for the purpose of showing respect to a person may be tolerated for a grave reason.”

I don’t believe the 1983 code comments on the situation, thus, the 1917 Canon 1258 remains the law of the Church. According to the 1983 Code of Canon Law:

“A later law abrogates, or derogates from, an earlier law if it states so expressly, is directly contrary to it, or completely reorders the entire matter of the earlier law.”

I’ve never been to a Protestant church so I’ve never had to confess to this matter.
 
Paxvobis said:
I don’t believe the 1983 code comments on the situation,
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It is addressed briefly in the 1983 code:

Can. 755 §1. It is above all for the entire college of bishops and the Apostolic See to foster and direct among Catholics the ecumenical movement whose purpose is the restoration among all Christians of the unity which the Church is bound to promote by the will of Christ.

§2. It is likewise for the bishops and, according to the norm of law, the conferences of bishops to promote this same unity and to impart practical norms according to the various needs and opportunities of the circumstances; they are to be attentive to the prescripts issued by the supreme authority of the Church.

The Directory for the Application of Principles and Norms on Ecumenism (the one linked to by Phemie) is issued by the Vatican Curia pursuant to canon 755.
 
Just_Lurking said:
It is addressed briefly in the 1983 code:

Can. 755 §1. It is above all for the entire college of bishops and the Apostolic See to foster and direct among Catholics the ecumenical movement whose purpose is the restoration among all Christians of the unity which the Church is bound to promote by the will of Christ.

§2. It is likewise for the bishops and, according to the norm of law, the conferences of bishops to promote this same unity and to impart practical norms according to the various needs and opportunities of the circumstances; they are to be attentive to the prescripts issued by the supreme authority of the Church.

The Directory for the Application of Principles and Norms on Ecumenism (the one linked to by Phemie) is issued by the Vatican Curia pursuant to canon 755.
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Thanks, I didn’t know that.

But I don’t see any directions or laws given which contradict the letter 1917 Code of Canon Law.
 
Paxvobis said:
Thanks, I didn’t know that.

But I don’t see any directions or laws given which contradict the letter 1917 Code of Canon Law.
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1917 Code said:
It is unlawful for the faithful to assist in any active manner, or to take part in the sacred services of non-Catholics. At funerals of non-Catholics, at their marriages, and similar solemnities, provided there is no danger of perversion or scandal, passive or merely material presence on account of a civil office or for the purpose of showing respect to a person may be tolerated for a grave reason.
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Directory for the Application of Principles and Norms on Ecumenism:
By liturgical worship is meant worship carried out according to books, prescriptions and customs of a Church or ecclesial Community, presided over by a minister or delegate of that Church or Community. … In liturgical celebrations taking place in other Churches and ecclesial Communities, Catholics are encouraged to take part in the psalms, responses, hymns and common actions of the Church in which they are guests. If invited by their hosts, they may read a lesson or preach.
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And once again:
The Holy Office therefore observed that the Council of Carthage forbade praying and singing (psallendum) with heretics*.
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  • Cf. Collectanea S. Congregationis de Propaganda Fidei seu Decreta Instructiones Rescripta pro Apostolicis Missionibus (Ex Typographia Polyglotta, Roma, 1907), vol. I, p. 642, n. 1176 (1859).
Do you not see a contradiction here?
 
SouthpawLink said:
And once again:
  • Cf. Collectanea S. Congregationis de Propaganda Fidei seu Decreta Instructiones Rescripta pro Apostolicis Missionibus (Ex Typographia Polyglotta, Roma, 1907), vol. I, p. 642, n. 1176 (1859).
Do you not see a contradiction here?
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Well, I obviously didn’t look up nn. 116 & 118 of the Directory for the Application of Principles and Norms on Ecumenism. Mea Culpa.

Regardless, the question now is this: did the Council of Carthage make a dogmatic definition when they said that singing or praying with heretics is forbidden?
 
Paxvobis said:
Well, I obviously didn’t look up nn. 116 & 118 of the Directory for the Application of Principles and Norms on Ecumenism. Mea Culpa.

Regardless, the question now is this: did the Council of Carthage make a dogmatic definition when they said that singing or praying with heretics is forbidden?
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And may I add another question? Since the Church as said on many occassions that the non-Catholic Christians of today are not themselves guilty of heresy, how is this prohibition applicable to attending Protestant services?
 
Corki said:
And may I add another question? Since the Church as said on many occassions that the non-Catholic Christians of today are not themselves guilty of heresy, how is this prohibition applicable to attending Protestant services?
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They are not necessarily guilty of heresy since they didn’t necessarily have the faith to begin with. A heretic is one who denies the true faith. But if they haven’t been presented with it, they’re not a heretic. Certainly someone who leaves the Church to go to a Protestant ecclesial community becomes a heretic.
 
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