"communicatio in sacris"

  • Thread starter Thread starter Monica4316
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
cephas161619 said:
They are not necessarily guilty of heresy since they didn’t necessarily have the faith to begin with. A heretic is one who denies the true faith. But if they haven’t been presented with it, they’re not a heretic. Certainly someone who leaves the Church to go to a Protestant ecclesial community becomes a heretic.
Click to expand...
Well I am pretty sure even the Council of Carthage was speaking of communities, not individuals. 🙂

Otherwise, what would we have to do? Pause at the door, ask if anyone in the Congregation was ever a Catholic and only go in if no one raises their hands? 😃

Seriously, that cut-and-paste reference to the Council of Carthage could be used to mean a mixed-faith couple couldn’t say Grace together at dinner time or that the non-Catholics in a Catholic school would be forbidden to join in school prayer. 🤷
 
Elena_26 said:
Answer to your real question: if you feel true contrition in your heart,
and you know in true conscience that you offended God by it. Yes seek the sacrament of penance. That’s what it’s for.

👍
Click to expand...
Or even if you are unsure - just bring it to Confession and be at peace.
Monica4316 said:
thanks for the replies, well does anyone know if going to Confession is enough to be forgiven for this? if a Catholic has done this in the past. Just wanted to know 🙂
Click to expand...
Well, it doesn’t sound like this was done was grave matter or done with full knowledge so Confession may not even be required. But yes, Confession and absolution is all that is needed for this type of “sin”. Even if the person gravely erred and received Communion, Confession is all that is needed.
 
thank you for the replies! I kind of have 3 issues here… one, I’m afraid that I’ve done this in the past but I don’t know if Confession is enough; I was invited to a Christian concert but am wondering if I should attend now (maybe it would be safest to just not attend? but I’m confused on what the Church rule is); and what happens with wedding and funerals.
Paxvobis said:
According to the 1917 Code of Canon Law:

“Canon 1258. It is unlawful for the faithful to assist in any active manner, or to take part in the sacred services of non-Catholics. At funerals of non-Catholics, at their marriages, and similar solemnities, provided there is no danger of perversion or scandal, passive or merely material presence on account of a civil office or for the purpose of showing respect to a person may be tolerated for a grave reason.”

I don’t believe the 1983 code comments on the situation, thus, the 1917 Canon 1258 remains the law of the Church. According to the 1983 Code of Canon Law:

“A later law abrogates, or derogates from, an earlier law if it states so expressly, is directly contrary to it, or completely reorders the entire matter of the earlier law.”

I’ve never been to a Protestant church so I’ve never had to confess to this matter.
Click to expand...
according to the 1917 Canon… would it be alright for a Catholic to attend - let’s say the funeral of their non Catholic parent, especially if they are the only child and there are no other relatives living in the country? is that sufficient for a “grave reason”? (I’d say it falls under “purpose of showing respect”… etc.

what if a Catholic is invited to their friend’s non Catholic wedding? (assuming the friend is not Catholic).
Corki said:
Or even if you are unsure - just bring it to Confession and be at peace.
Click to expand...
I will 🙂 I just don’t know if there’s anything else to do… I don’t know if there is an “anathema” for this, if so, how are anathemas commonly lifted? Confession?
Well, it doesn’t sound like this was done was grave matter or done with full knowledge so Confession may not even be required. But yes, Confession and absolution is all that is needed for this type of “sin”. Even if the person gravely erred and received Communion, Confession is all that is needed.
Click to expand...
okay thanks, I hope so 🙂
 
Monica4316 said:
thank you for the replies! I kind of have 3 issues here… one, I’m afraid that I’ve done this in the past but I don’t know if Confession is enough; I was invited to a Christian concert but am wondering if I should attend now (maybe it would be safest to just not attend? but I’m confused on what the Church rule is); and what happens with wedding and funerals.
Click to expand...
Confession is always “enough”.

A concert is not a formal worship service, even if people pray there. We are permitted to pray with others, but not to attend their regular formal worship services.
Monica4316 said:
according to the 1917 Canon… would it be alright for a Catholic to attend - let’s say the funeral of their non Catholic parent, especially if they are the only child and there are no other relatives living in the country? is that sufficient for a “grave reason”? (I’d say it falls under “purpose of showing respect”… etc.

what if a Catholic is invited to their friend’s non Catholic wedding? (assuming the friend is not Catholic).
Click to expand...
We aren’t living under the 1917 Canon. There is a new one that supercedes it. Unless you are distrusting the Church and her authority, you have no reason to throw aside the 1983 Canon.

Either way, funerals and weddings are not ordinary services, so they would be fine.
Monica4316 said:
I will 🙂 I just don’t know if there’s anything else to do… I don’t know if there is an “anathema” for this, if so, how are anathemas commonly lifted? Confession?
Click to expand...
Anathemas are actions that have to be done, and are not imposed automatically. Maybe someone could offer more information on the subject.
 
thanks for the reply; well I think that abortion is related to an ‘automatic’ excommunication though I dont know? (though we are talking about something different here).

Is there anything in Canon Law that says that communicatio in sacris only relates to ordinary worship services? (not questioning just looking for more info :))

God bless
 
Monica4316 said:
I will 🙂 I just don’t know if there’s anything else to do… I don’t know if there is an “anathema” for this, if so, how are anathemas commonly lifted? Confession?
Click to expand...
The Church no longer has a disciplinary category of “anathemas”.

PS Do you by any chance suffer from scrupulosity? You don’t have to answer publically. If you do, however, put yourself under the direction of a good priest and do what he tells you.
 
Corki said:
The Church no longer has a disciplinary category of “anathemas”.

PS Do you by any chance suffer from scrupulosity? You don’t have to answer publically. If you do, however, put yourself under the direction of a good priest and do what he tells you.
Click to expand...
I’m pretty sure an “anathema” means an “automatic excommunication.”
 
Regarding the Church forbidding Catholics from praying with heretics and schismatics, I’ve seen references to Constantinople II, Carthage, Laodicea and possibly also Lateran IV (Catholics are admonished to avoid heretics altogether).

If there’s a strong and long-standing practice, then there’s no need for a dogmatic definition, as there are non-defined infallible teachings (e.g., the Blessed Virgin’s freedom from all personal sin).

Corki,
Material (i.e. not guilty) heretics are still heretics and their beliefs are still heretical. Worshipping with them denotes approving of and associating with their false beliefs.
Seriously, that cut-and-paste reference to the Council of Carthage could be used to mean a mixed-faith couple couldn’t say Grace together at dinner time or that the non-Catholics in a Catholic school would be forbidden to join in school prayer.
Click to expand...
If you read the article, then you’d know it’s about public prayer/worship. What’s more, Canon Law’s addressed to Catholics, and so non-Catholics would be encouraged to join in school prayer, with the secret hope that they’d be moved to conversion.
 
SouthpawLink said:
If you read the article, then you’d know it’s about public prayer/worship. What’s more, Canon Law’s addressed to Catholics, and so non-Catholics would be encouraged to join in school prayer, with the secret hope that they’d be moved to conversion.
Click to expand...
If you read the post to which I was replying, you would know that was my point. :mad:
 
If one searches “communicatio in sacris redemptorist” on google, there are some brief, but informative articles on communicatio in sacris on the Transalpine Redemptorist site.

Seems a few popes have allowed it in certain instances.
 
thanks!

another question… does using Orthodox sacramentals, at home privately (not publically or in church) fall under “communicatio in sacris”? for example, using Orthodox holy water or holy oil, or blessed candles, venerating a family icon, etc. ? (my family is Orthodox).

What about praying with your non Catholic family members?
 
Monica4316 said:
thanks!

another question… does using Orthodox sacramentals, at home privately (not publically or in church) fall under “communicatio in sacris”? for example, using Orthodox holy water or holy oil, or blessed candles, venerating a family icon, etc. ? (my family is Orthodox).

What about praying with your non Catholic family members?
Click to expand...
Commnicatio sacris, as far as I can tell, is about public worship. It doesn’t cover sacramentals.

As a rule, private devotions are not regulated by the Church. Sacramentals would be in that catergory and fine as long as they aren’t anti-Catholic.

And you can pray with anyone – especially family.
 
Corki said:
Commnicatio sacris, as far as I can tell, is about public worship. It doesn’t cover sacramentals.

As a rule, private devotions are not regulated by the Church. Sacramentals would be in that catergory and fine as long as they aren’t anti-Catholic.

And you can pray with anyone – especially family.
Click to expand...
I wouldn’t say these are anti-Catholic… I wouldn’t do anything that contradicted the Catholic faith.

I’ll try to ask my priest in Confession.
 
Monica4316 said:
I wouldn’t say these are anti-Catholic… I wouldn’t do anything that contradicted the Catholic faith.

I’ll try to ask my priest in Confession.
Click to expand...
orthodox sacramentals are definately not anti-catholic!
 
 
thank you! 🙂 I’m just sort of confused… because “communicatio in sacris” means sharing in sacred things, yet are not sacramentals sacred things? Maybe I’m taking this too literally. Again I mean using sacramentals at home, not publically in a Church setting. (if I would visit an Orthodox church with my family in the future, it would be if I don’t have much of a choice, and I would only observe there).
 
Yes, communicatio in sacris is forbidden and this is an infallible dogma of the Catholic Church because it is the universal teaching of the Church Fathers, regardless of the modern errors in this regard. No, it is not a sin reserved to a bishop or the Holy See – you can confess it to a simple priest.

With regards to simple prayers with your family, this is not God’s Law in this regard. There’s a principle of the interpretation of Canon Law and the moral law which states that the law is not about trivial matters. In short, this means it is not a sin to say grace before meals with your family but rather that you should not assist at an Orthodox Divine Liturgy.
 
Monica, IIRC, you are FSSP. Here is the well-known priest Fr. Chad Ripperger, FSSP’s comments:

"There are two bases of certitude for something from Tradition. One, it’s duration – if it has always been taught then it is a matter of the Faith. As St. Vincent of Lerins says, sometimes called the Vincentian Canon, “ubique, semper, ab omnibus” – “everywhere, always and by all”. If something has always been taught, everywhere and by all – now, by that, we’re talking about those in union with the Holy Father who are orthodox – then it is, in point of fact, infallible and we know for certainty that it cannot be changed.

What’s an example of that? That you cannot engage in communicatio in sacris with non-Catholics, you cannot even pray with non-Catholics. This has been taught everywhere, and by all, from the Fathers of the Church all the way up to, and in point of fact, the Church Herself said that this was an infallible teaching pertaining to the Natural Law and the Divine Positive Law, was irreformable and no one could dispense from it. Priests aren’t teaching that anymore."

~ Fr. Chad Ripperger, FSSP, “Tradition” (pt 3/10) (transcribed by me)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top