Communion alone is ‘not the solution’ for divorced and re-married Catholics, says Pope Francis

[tigerprowl]

Thank everybody who replied. Sorry- I didn’t mean to say anything combative. It is a tough road for those of us divorced and remarried, and it is sometimes frustrating and defeating at times. Thanks again!

 

[sttcatherinefan]

Over the years I have known several people, men and women that were never married, (no children) and yet live full lives and are very content. And many widowed that remained that way. and I’ve known a few that were married and very unhappy. We have to learn to deal with life as it comes to us and do the best we can. With God’s help we can over come many difficulties. God Bless, Memaw

Yes, this is your personal choice. There are other people who might wish to explore the possibility of a new relationship, especially those who tend to be younger. Even priests and religious who know what they are getting into have a hard time with celibacy.

 

[bisco1]

i would like to explore the possibility of sin too, i hope the synod looks into some of my favorite’s!

 

[ProVobis]

i would like to explore the possibility of sin too, i hope the synod looks into some of my favorite’s!

Ten points.

 

[Memaw]

i would like to explore the possibility of sin too, i hope the synod looks into some of my favorite’s!

If my husband left me and I am poor, can I steal to get nice things??? Could get out of hand very quickly. The Church will never permit us to sin!!! The End. God Bless, Memaw

 

[bisco1]

the Holy Spirit will guide the church, of that, i have no doubt. in the meantime, i pray that the synod produces a streamlined annulment process, that is part of God’s plan.

 

[philipl]

Jesus said divorce and remarriage was not allowed. but if someone came to Him and asked for forgiveness, would He have said no? unfortunately, it’s not addressed in scripture, so the church has to make a determination. and there are so many variations on the theme.

He very clearly addressed it in scriptures.

 

[otjm]

Yes, this is your personal choice. There are other people who might wish to explore the possibility of a new relationship, especially those who tend to be younger. Even priests and religious who know what they are getting into have a hard time with celibacy.

An interesting observation, but one which would derail the thread. Could you PM me, since you are not set up for that?

 

[ProVobis]

the Holy Spirit will guide the church, of that, i have no doubt. in the meantime, i pray that the synod produces a streamlined annulment process, that is part of God’s plan.

Streamlining it without making it automatic will be quite challenging. Making it less intimidating would help too IMO.

 

[Phil502]

In other words, “tough luck” in not finding a suitable partner? I see this as a rather pompous remark. This attitude doesn’t help your cause since it can only divide from those who don’t see it as a choice at all.

I have no idea what you are getting at. The “that was your choice” was directed at the poster saying they chose to live alone after a spouses death. I believe you completely misunderstood what I wrote.

 

[pnewton]

I think there can be no hard and fast rules on the annulment process. Don’t forget, it’s become a learning process for all the parties involved.

There are some hard and fast rules, like the Pauline privilege. While I know that many marriages may require a deep consideration, all do not. Some are obviously going to be annulled, based on simple objective facts.

 

[pnewton]

When I consider some of the flippant statements on these synod threads, I see why the Holy Father wants this issue addressed. I would hope that anonymity is the reason why some of the comments have been made and that no one would really treat one of their fellow Catholics with such callous disregard for their situation.

 

[otjm]

When I consider some of the flippant statements on these synod threads, I see why the Holy Father wants this issue addressed. I would hope that anonymity is the reason why some of the comments have been made and that no one would really treat one of their fellow Catholics with such callous disregard for their situation.

Flippant statements are often a sign of someone who either has no skin in the game, or a profound lack of understanding of the issues, usually due to a serious lack of knowledge. It is easy to fire a salvo knowing that one will have no personal responsibility for anything it causes.

 

[ProVobis]

It is a tough road for those of us divorced and remarried, and it is sometimes frustrating and defeating at times. Thanks again!

Yes, but at least you have the support from a “spouse.” If not, then there was no real reason for the remarriage in the first place IMO.

 

[ProVobis]

There are some hard and fast rules, like the Pauline privilege. While I know that many marriages may require a deep consideration, all do not. Some are obviously going to be annulled, based on simple objective facts.

Even if it’s obvious, the process of answering questions that involve your childhood and your ex-spouse and such should be beneficial to establishing and developing future relationship(s). Seeing the process as a cut-and-dry, yes-or-no one does not do it justice to the Church which has spent the time and money to set up tribunals, etc. or to those who wish the Church to consider their situation IMO.

 

[Phil502]

Tribunals are not tasked with seeing into anyone’s heart; they are tasked with reviewing evidence. And if the evidence is inadequate, because of one or the other party not being able to articulate clearly what was going on at the time of the marriage ceremony or if witnesses are dead, or missing, or uncooperative, or simply can’t remember, then even though the marriage may be invalid in the eyes of God, the Church is not going to find it invalid.

So you are right, that time can be a detriment to a decision. Taking two or more years to make a determination is a long, long time, and if I remember correctly, Benedict 16 had said this needs to be resolved and decisions rendered more quickly.

As to your comments about who petitions, there have been plenty of people who have reconciled with God, and not only realized their error, but have moved to change their ways. “oath breaker” could be many things; it could be a spouse who committed adultery which lead to the divorce; but it could also be the innocent spouse who filed, because of the need for protection.

Of course they are looking into someones heart, how else can they determine, yes among other things, that a person did not take their vows seriously. I would think that this scenario, the one where a spouse takes a hike because they found some one else that they want, to be the lions share of what the tribunal deals with. Abuse cases, shotgun weddings and other stuff is pretty cut and dried.

 

[Phil502]

That’s not what the Church says, though. She says, in the words of Christ:

"Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross daily and follow me."

IMO, part of this argument that the remarried should receive Communion is choosing to ignore that particular cross. The point of this life, according to Jesus anyway, isn’t to get everything we want and be perfectly content. The point is to accept what comes our way with faith. There were times when Christ enjoyed life and thanked God for it - there were times when Christ suffered and again He thanked God for it. One thing Christ never said was “this isn’t fair”…and there were opportunities where He could have said that.

The remarried should go through the steps to seek an annulment (which few actually do) and then have faith in God that the decision of the tribunal is His will for them. If they’re meant to live the rest of their lives in an unmarried state, who are we to argue with the will of God?

Some of us look at the Annulment questions at their dioces and know that they could not truthfully answer a lot of the questions because it has been too long to remember a lot of it. Sure you could hire a lawyer, I saw an ad for this, $600.00 and they will interview you over the phone and write it all up. Seems a little disingenous to me but thats just my opinion.

 

[Phil502]

Simply being civilly divorced is not a sin. Committing adultry is a sin, which is what someone who is already married does when they have sex with someone who is not their husband without benefit of an annulment.

Just as the murderer who repents and sins no more, the adulterer can do the same.

Once you are remarried even if you were the victim in the divorce, you are known as an adulterer. So now you say to repent, this to you is don’t have sex with your second spouse? This is a solution for you? Or is the solution a long drawn out Annulment process instead. Have you ever looked at the Annulment questions? If so what is your opinion on answering them accurately, say after 10 years or more?

 

[ProVobis]

Or is the solution a long drawn out Annulment process instead. Have you ever looked at the Annulment questions? If so what is your opinion on answering them accurately, say after 10 years or more?

First, they shouldn’t be waiting 10 years if they are serious about their faith. Second, I found the questions challenging, thought provoking, and healing. Sorry if others found them too much of a bother.

 

[tigerprowl]

First, they shouldn’t be waiting 10 years if they are serious about their faith.

I waited 13 years. My faith was challenged along the way. I would argue that there are many - most - devout Catholics who have at times questioned their faith in some way. Some merely wait because it’s a theater of pain every time they think about their failed marriage.