Communion at Protestant churches

[Harsalter]

I think ‘ripped them out’ is a bit strong… it was definitely a decision Luther made, but I was under the impression that he simply chose the Hebrew OT rather than the Greek…and because some had never been translated into Hebrew (as the hellenistic Jews had no need of the Hebrew versions) he choose the Hebrew canon over the Greek…

he didn’t exactly rip them out…ho just chose one mode over the other… this was what I’d been under the impression of anyway, put kinda briefly

According to the book I quoted above “Why Catholic Bibles Are Bigger: The Untold Story of the Lost Books of the Protestant Bible”, by Gary G. Michuta, Luther was pressured to do so because they (Luther and followers, but the cart was sort of leading the horse here) being separated from the Church now had to separate themselves in some type theology. So they chose purgatory as one of their battles. But you are right, they used what you mentioned as their excuse.

I watched a hour long interview on EWTN with the author. It was very revealing how the protestant Bible came to pass.

Luther, although I think he will pay a heavy price for his division of the Church, was an interesting man. Some of his views can be found at ewtn.com/library/SCRIPTUR/LUTHMRY.TXT where it is quoted he believed that Mary was mother of man and mother of God, Mary was 'Full of Grace" and without original and any sin, she stayed a virgin after Christ’s birth, etc, etc. He sure sounds Catholic to me.

 

[Abira]

According to the book I quoted above “Why Catholic Bibles Are Bigger: The Untold Story of the Lost Books of the Protestant Bible”, by Gary G. Michuta, Luther was pressured to do so because they (Luther and followers, but the cart was sort of leading the horse here) being separated from the Church now had to separate themselves in some type theology. So they chose purgatory as one of their battles. But you are right, they used what you mentioned as their excuse.

I watched a hour long interview on EWTN with the author. It was very revealing how the protestant Bible came to pass.

Luther, although I think he will pay a heavy price for his division of the Church, was an interesting man. Some of his views can be found at ewtn.com/library/SCRIPTUR/LUTHMRY.TXT where it is quoted he believed that Mary was mother of man and mother of God, Mary was 'Full of Grace" and without original and any sin, she stayed a virgin after Christ’s birth, etc, etc. He sure sounds Catholic to me.

It’s interesting that even hellenistic Jews believed in the ripped out books but later ones rejected them because they were not written down in hebrew at an earlier date lol

I hope Luther did what he did in good faith and from his conscience believing it was right at the time, if he did that he doesn’t deserve to be punished. The cleaning up of the catholic church may not have happened without a shock to the system.

it’s wierd looking at the list of Catholic beliefs up there as I’m currently anglican, and so many of those…if not all…apply to the church of england… but then the church of england did not regard itself as protestant but Catholic…just a reformed catholic church… most teachings can be applied to both anglican and catholic…

but then I guess Luther was a Catholic.

S

 

[dthurmond]

Having been raised Lutheran… it is my understanding that Martin Luther was a Priest and in viewing what his fellow priest preached and or practiced…i.e. purgatory, the accepting of money in order to get into either purgatory and/or Heaven…is the reason why he tacked his 95 Theses to the door of the Wittenberg Church, then breaking away from the “Church”.

study to shew thyself approved

 

[dthurmond]

In reading the 95 Theses of Martin Luther, I don’t see any mention of the Communion. Of course, I’m sleepy and it’s way past my bed time… so I might be just missing it.

It would be interesting to locate in the Theses of Martin Luther, any mention of the Communion…

Just want to know whether or not there is a disparity in the original theses and the present denominations.

study to shew thyself approved

Good Night!

 

[Nella]

It is quite a good point because they view you in much the same way you view Protestants with the exception that you have valid sacraments. From their point of view you are schismatic in the same way you are accusing Protestants of being schismatic. To them you left the faith that they have maintained unaltered for centuries (while the Catholic Church developed new doctrines after new doctrine from purgatory, indulgences, Papal infallbility, etc). For there to be any reunion the Orthodox would have to have a sort of modern Act of Henotikon in which they overlooked Roman Catholic innovations that have developed apart from the Apostolic faith captured in the first 7 Ecumenical Councils.

Rev North (Protestant or Anglo Catholic depending on your point of view)

You make some very good points here. It is unfair to say that everyone else changed and then when Catholicism changed, They justify it by saying that Jesus gives them the authority to do whatever they please, therefore remaining the original and only church of God. They will argue this, but stripped down to the nitty gritty, this is exactly what they are saying.

 

[Nella]

You make some very good points here. It is unfair to say that everyone else changed and then when Catholicism changed, They justify it by saying that Jesus gives them the authority to do whatever they please, therefore remaining the original and only church of God. They will argue this, but stripped down to the nitty gritty, this is exactly what they are saying.

and by gosh, this is exactly what Martin Luther challenged!

 

[Grace_Seeker]

No, protestants are heretics that left the Church.

Catholicism is not a denomination. And the correct term to label protestant denominations are “sects”.

Now, why does this response not surprise me?

Believe what you want, I know you will anyway. But not all protestants are heretics. As the Catholic church defines as heretics only those that were under the teaching of the Catholic church and have left that teaching for other beliefs. One who never held those teachings to begin with is, by definition of the Catholic church, not a heretic. This would certainly exclude the majority of protestants from being heretics.

And as far as what a denomination is: “A large group of religious congregations united under a common faith and name and organized under a single administrative and legal hierarchy” (Source American Heritage Dictionary). Which part of this definition do you think does NOT apply to the Catholic church?

 

[dthurmond]

So… again is there anythingin the 95 Theses of Martin Luther that speaks of the communion?

 

[Abira]

So… again is there anythingin the 95 Theses of Martin Luther that speaks of the communion?

iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/wittenberg/luther/web/ninetyfive.html

there’s a link there to a translation of his 95 thesis…ive never read it myself

S

 

[Nella]

No, we are not allowed to receive any Protestant communion for basically the same reasons they are not to receive ours.

The Eucharist is the sign of unity in the Church. Protestants are not in full communion with the Church, and their communion is not valid due to their lack of valid orders (priesthood).

When one receives the Eucharist at Mass one is declaring one’s unity with the teachings and mission of the Church. For a Catholic to receive Protestant communion is to deny that truth. In the same vein, it is hypocritical for a Protestant to receive the Eucharist while not believing/practicing the teachings of the Church, and may be dangerous to his soul.

This is a complete lie.

 

[dthurmond]

This is from the web site that the person above gave in the previous post:

“For here in the sacrament [Communion] you receive from Christ’s lips the forgiveness of sins, which contains and conveys God’s grace and Spirit with all his gifts, protection, defense, and power against death and the devil and all evils” (The Large Catechism – p. 98).

This to me is a very vague quote… and in no way gives an exact meaning and or understanding of Martin Luthers’ believe pertaining to the Communion.

 

[Abira]

This is a complete lie.

in what sense… I have no issues with this.

It is he honest opinion of the poster and of the catholic view…it is not a lie even if you do not believe it is true… noboy has lied here

Catholics are not allowed to take protestant communion…protestants are not allowed to take catholic communion

protestant communion (I remember a poster clarifying this for me earlier so if you askI’ll find the post)… the Anglican church would allow a catholic to take communion because they have been confirmed into the christian faith… BUT the Catholic faith of course does not allow the Catholic to take it… so its irrelevent really lol

The church of englands idea over communion is that hopefully by sharing the one bread we will all move closer together as one body… that communion will bring us closer together in faith and ideas

he catholic view is slightly different: you have to be completely in union BEFORE you join us… not join us and then move into complete union.

I agree with the above poster… can you explain why you don’t?

S

 

[Nella]

in what sense… I have no issues with this.

It is he honest opinion of the poster and of the catholic view…it is not a lie even if you do not believe it is true… noboy has lied here

Catholics are not allowed to take protestant communion…protestants are not allowed to take catholic communion

protestant communion (I remember a poster clarifying this for me earlier so if you askI’ll find the post)… the Anglican church would allow a catholic to take communion because they have been confirmed into the christian faith… BUT the Catholic faith of course does not allow the Catholic to take it… so its irrelevent really lol

The church of englands idea over communion is that hopefully by sharing the one bread we will all move closer together as one body… that communion will bring us closer together in faith and ideas

he catholic view is slightly different: you have to be completely in union BEFORE you join us… not join us and then move into complete union.

I agree with the above poster… can you explain why you don’t?

S

You put this into a much more focused perspective. i can agree with what you said. My disagreement lies in the Catholic teaching of who can and cannot receive and why.

 

[thomasf]

That doesn’t make it a lie. Protestants and non-catholics can’t take part in the Eucharist. You can disagree with that all you want, it doesn’t change that fact.

 

[Abira]

You put this into a much more focused perspective. i can agree with what you said. My disagreement lies in the Catholic teaching of who can and cannot receive and why.

lol I keep getting confused as to delle and nella lol

ok, that is harder to understand… the person who cleared up whether or not anglicans allow communion to confirmed anglicans or all confirmed christians was DrRevNorth in post 96 on this thread…

I believe that if the catholics have a different view on what communion is…ie…a declaration of unity IN the eucharist rather than a declaration of coming together THROUGH the eucharist…

if their view is different then we have to respect that they would naturally not want people who were not in union with them declaring union through this act

of course, many catholics take communion when they should not… but then the church teaches that this is a grave sin, and also that this lies on their conscience and no one elses… not even the priests because he has to assume the best of them (ie. they MIGHT have confessed at another church etc)

S

 

[Beyrak]

This is a complete lie.

How dare you! That is not a lie. When one accepts the Eucharist at Mass, one says “Amen” when offered the Holy Communion. This communicates that you are a Christian in good communion with the Church, you BELIEVE you are receiving the “ACTUAL BODY & BLOOD” of Christ (not symbolic), and believe the Church’s teachings. Anything less and you are committing a mortal sin.

That’s why non-Catholics are not allowed our communion, as the priest would be allowing them to commit sin. And for a Catholic to accept communion at a protestant church, people who are out of communion of our Church is also wrong and shouldn’t be done and our Church teaches this!

I understand why you protestants can’t agree and understand what the Catholic Church, the true, original universal Church teaches, as you can’t even agree with yourselves. That’s why you now have divided into almost 30,000 denominations. And no, the Catholic Church is not a denomination. A denomination is a religious sect that had splintered.

At least Martin Luther left the Church, in error, but for reasons of faith. Not because he wanted annulments and the Pope didn’t give it to him. How any one could EVER follow the church that Henry VIII created is beyond me.

 

[Beyrak]

Catholics, be aware of this site and forum. It is a great tool and place to share and express ideas. But be advised where this is done, Satan will be there also. And I believe he has surfaced in this thread.

 

[Abira]

At least Martin Luther left the Church, in error, but for reasons of faith. Not because he wanted annulments and the Pope didn’t give it to him. How any one could EVER follow the church that Henry VIII created is beyond me.

it has been the state religion of england for hundreds and hundreds of years since 1558! I’ve never met Henry VIII or thought about him much, there has been hundreds of years of seperation - it is all most people in England have ever known… this is how they can believe in the CofE

for hundreds of years there was no real choice…of course nobody now looks back at henry VIII motives, they are irrelevent to the everyday life of people… if you are American I’m sure you don’t daily think about things which were happening in the 1500’s…and defiintely not just one persons personal motivation… the issue is much more complicated then just to say: it was cos Henry wanted a divorce…this is a very simplistic view - no wonder it’s beyond you to see both views.

they don’t see it as the church that henry VIII founded specifically… since England was Catholic again AFTER he died… so there again is another complication. They do see his actions as a spark… and you won’t find any English Anglican who will defend many of his actions… he did some very bad things out of greed and power for land and money.

they see it as a church which had to reform because of bad things going on within catholicism at that time and earlier…whether you agree with this or not isn’t the issue,

I’m just trying to help you understand that there are many reasons people do believe in that church, and that they are not cut and dried.

S

 

[Abira]

Catholics, be aware of this site and forum. It is a great tool and place to share and express ideas. But be advised where this is done, Satan will be there also. And I believe he has surfaced in this thread.

Where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.–Matt. 18:20

I think you’re overeacting massively there… I hope that you’re a lone voice.

I do not agree with all ideas pushed forward in this thread, and I hope you don’t think that I am ‘satan in this thread’

Just because you don’t understand something does not make the view and /or poster a tool of satan,

for goodness sake!! It’s a real shame you feel unable to engage and understand other views better

 

[dthurmond]

I just looked up the definition of denomination

I found this web site:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_denomination

It is on wikipedia. I hope that you don’t think that this web site is of the devil. There is some good information on there.