Communion at Protestant churches

[jmcrae]

“Salvation by faith alone”? Do Protestants still believe that.

Peace

This idea did not appear until the late 50s or early 1960s. (This idea did not exist yet in Evangelical Christian thought in 1950, but it was well-established in Evangelical thought by 1966, though). Members of churches older than that or not connected with the Evangelical movement will probably not have heard of it, unless they had encountered Evangelical Christians. The OSAS crowd doesn’t tend to evangelize mainstream Protestants, which is why we as Catholics are actually more likely to have heard of them than the majority of Protestants, which seems kind of ironic, since they portray their OSAS belief as “traditional Protestant thinking.”

 

[sparkey]

I have often heard that Protestants should not receive holy Communion at Catholic Mass, and totaly agree that they should not…But is it permissable for us Catholics to participate in Protestant communion services???

 

[viper78912]

11/20

“And whoever gives only a cup of cold water to one of these little ones to drink…amen I say to you, he shall not lose his reward.” (Matthew10.42).
Recognition is doing the little things, spreading the message in our own little ways, even perhaps spreading a sunshine smile. If we cannot even smile…!!!

“Foxes have dens and the birds of the sky have their nests, but the Son of Man Has nowhere to lay his head.”(Luke 9:58).

[We still have to cope with the ordinary, and do it in the ordinary way. And there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that.
[/QUOTE]

 

[viper78912]

I

why would you even WANT to take communion in a Catholic Church if you do not believe in the Real Pressence…that makes no sense…and this is the reason that the Church doesn’t allow open communion because everyone would not believe in that same theology here…so…my question is WHY? Why would YOU want to?

Anyhoo…look forward to your replies.

Some time back, at a Catholic wedding, the videographer pulled out the sanctuary lamp connection, inserted the camera cord, and proceeded with recording the ceremony. The congregation was aghast.
After the ceremony, I asked the Catholic parent whether he believed in the Real Presence of Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament. After deep thought, he said that Jesus was symbolically present.
My humble question is: what is the locus standi of a Catholic in such cases? Is the Catholic allowed to receive Holy Communion by virtue of Baptism?

 

[peary]

And, as I have told you before, I’m glad you have found a home in the Catholic church. It appears to fit you very well.

I just take exception to comments like LilyM made in which she implied that protestants feel that Catholics are not a part of Christ’s true Church in the same way that Catholics do toward protestants. Yes, there are a few that think terrible things with regards to Catholics. I don’t approve of their attitude either. But for LilyM she was basically putting words in my mouth that I would never have said. That is what I object to.

Many many protestants i know firmlyare convinced that Catholics, as a general rule, are not part of Christ’s true church.

 

[jmcrae]

Some time back, at a Catholic wedding, the videographer pulled out the sanctuary lamp connection, inserted the camera cord, and proceeded with recording the ceremony. The congregation was aghast.

I would have been “aghast” long before then. Isn’t the Sanctuary Lamp supposed to be a beeswax candle or beeswax/paraffin candle in a red glass? Why would one “plug it in?”

I also think it’s tacky to have photography/videography in the middle of a Sacrament of any kind - can’t they wait to pop their flashes and roll tape until the photo-op at the end?

After the ceremony, I asked the Catholic parent whether he believed in the Real Presence of Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament. After deep thought, he said that Jesus was symbolically present.
My humble question is: what is the locus standi of a Catholic in such cases? Is the Catholic allowed to receive Holy Communion by virtue of Baptism?

No; he needs to be properly instructed in the meaning of the Sacrament before he participates in it. I suppose in this particular case, it would depend on why or how he came to the conclusion that it is only symbolic; however, even if it is only an innocent mistake, and not the result of something sinful, he still needs to receive Catechesis and correct his misunderstanding.

Hopefully, someone from among his friends and acquaintances will have the generosity and courage to suggest to him to take some extra classes and become better instructed in the teachings of the Catholic faith.

 

[viper78912]

Ithe Sanctuary Lamp supposed to be a beeswax candle or beeswax/paraffin candle in a red glass? Why would one “plug it in?”

I

No; he needs to be properly instructed in the meaning of the Sacrament before he participates in it. teachings of the Catholic faith.

Where is it mandatory to have a burning sanctuary candle or oil lamp? Many churches have electric lamps, artificial flowers, etc.
After receiving communion with the hand, adoration /veneration to the Sacred Host is much less. If the Host falls down, somebody just picks It up and hands It over to the minister. It was different earlier.
Baptism is an indelible Sacrament. In the absence of a ‘refresher’ course to ascertain our belief in the Real Presence, Certificates are enough to qualify for reception of the Sacraments.

 

[peary]

Where is it mandatory to have a burning sanctuary candle or oil lamp? Many churches have electric lamps, artificial flowers, etc.
.

**In the Old Testament God commanded that a lamp filled with the purest oil of olives should always burn in the Tabernacle of the Testimony without the veil (Exodus 27:20, 21). The Church prescribes that at least one lamp should continually burn before the tabernacle (Rit. Rom. iv, 6), not only as an ornament of the altar, but for the purpose of worship. It is also a mark of honour. It is to remind the faithful of the presence of Christ, and is a profession of their love and affection. Mystically it signifies Christ, for by this material light He is represented who is the “true light which enlighteneth every man” (John 1:9).

The lamp is usually suspended before the tabernacle by means of a chain or rope, and it should hang sufficiently high and removed from the altar-steps to cause no inconvenience to those who are engaged in the sanctuary. It may also be suspended from, or placed in a bracket at the side of the altar, provided always it be in front of the altar within the sanctuary proper.

For symbolical reasons olive oil is prescribed for the lamp burning before the altar of the Blessed Sacrament, for it is a symbol of purity, peace, and godliness.

Gas and electric lights are not allowed in its stead. A candle made out of pure beeswax or vegetable oil is allowable.

-Catholic Encyclopedia, Altar Lamp**

 

[jmcrae]

After receiving communion with the hand, adoration /veneration to the Sacred Host is much less. If the Host falls down, somebody just picks It up and hands It over to the minister. It was different earlier.

That’s probably true. It’s still very important to treat Jesus with respect, but He cannot actually be harmed in the fall, and it’s not like anybody dropped Him on purpose. But yes, they should have been more attentive to what they were doing, and in the future they need to be more careful. Most people are very embarrassed when this kind of thing happens to them - I’ve rarely ever seen it happen, and I’ve definitely never seen the same person do it twice.

I don’t know what used to happen before - I suppose all pandemonium broke loose, and the person who dropped Him would have been shunned.

Baptism is an indelible Sacrament.

It’s not the only qualification for the rest of the Sacraments, as I’m sure you’re aware, if you’ve read the rest of this thread.

In the absence of a ‘refresher’ course to ascertain our belief in the Real Presence, Certificates are enough to qualify for reception of the Sacraments.

You don’t just show up at the Church office and get a certificate, though. When preparing for a first Sacrament, both children and adults are required to attend classes. It kind of bothers me that they aren’t required to take a test at the end, to see whether they understood or retained any of the information, but at least they have to be physically in the room while the information is being presented.

 

[Grace_Seeker]

Many many protestants i know firmlyare convinced that Catholics, as a general rule, are not part of Christ’s true church.

Sad to say, I know that is true with some. Perhaps being a Catholic your experience has been that what I think of as a “few” has for you seemed like “many”. Or maybe you have run into many Protestants that I have not. But I know you are also playing the organ at a United Methodist Church, and I suspect there that you run into no one who sees you as not a part of Christ’s true church.

 

[thequeen]

once you come into full communion with the one true Catholic Church which was founded by our Lord Christ and realize the authentic real presence of Christ in the Eucharist there is no going back to the symbolic belief that the protestants have and that is why a catholic should for no reason what soever receive communion in a protestant church

 

[viper78912]

Numbers 11.25-29.
“Taking some of the spirit that was on Moses, he bestowed it on the seventy elders; and as the spirit came to rest o them, they prophesied.
Now two men, one named Eidad and the other Medad were not in the gathering but had been left in the camp. They too had been on the list, but had not gone out to the tent; yet the spirit came to rest on them also, and they prophesied in the camp.
So, when a young man quickly told Moses,’Eidad and Madad are prophesying in the camp,’ Joshua, son of Nun, who from his youth had been Moses’ aide, said, ‘Moses, my lord, stop them’ But Moses answered him, ’Are you jealous for my sake? Would that all the people of the Lord were prophets! Would that the Lord might bestow His spirit on them all!”
Mark9.38-41. ‘John said, ‘Teacher, we saw someone driving demons in your name and we tried to prevent him because he does not follow us.’
Jesus replied, ’Do not prevent him. There is no one who performs a mighty deed in My Name who can at the same time speak ill of me.
For whoever is not against us is with us. Anyone who gives you a cup of cold water to drink because you belong to Christ, Amen, I say to you, will surely not lose his reward.’
Matthew 16:18.’And I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it, I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loosen earth shall be loosed in heaven.”
The explanatory notes in the New Standard American Bible (NASB) with ref. to Matthew 16.19 states, “The keys to the kingdom of heaven: the image of the keys is probably drawn from Isaiah 22:15-25,where Eliakim, who succeeds Shebhnah as master of the palace, is given “the key to the house of David,” which he authoritatively ‘opens’ and ‘shuts’(22.22).
That the keys are those to the kingdom of heaven and that Peter’s exercise of authority in the church on earth will be confirmed in heaven show an intimate connection between, but not an identification of the church and the kingdom of heaven.
John6:44:’ No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draw him. And I will raise him up on the last day.’
John6:37: ‘Everything that the Father gives me will come to me, and I will not reject anyone who comes to me.’
The holy Pope has prayed in a Syrian mosque and kissed the Holy Quran.
Catechism of the Catholic Church (CC819) says: “Many elements of sanctification and of truth are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements. Christ’s Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him, and are in themselves calls to Catholic unity.”
As Cardinal Ratzinger (Pope Benedict XVI) says in ‘Journey towards Easter’ page141: No one has the right to excommunicate.’ We should adopt a constructive, reductionist and revisionist approach.

 

[jmcrae]

Numbers 11.25-29.
“Taking some of the spirit that was on Moses, he bestowed it on the seventy elders; and as the spirit came to rest o them, they prophesied.
Now two men, one named Eidad and the other Medad were not in the gathering but had been left in the camp. They too had been on the list, but had not gone out to the tent; yet the spirit came to rest on them also, and they prophesied in the camp.
So, when a young man quickly told Moses,’Eidad and Madad are prophesying in the camp,’ Joshua, son of Nun, who from his youth had been Moses’ aide, said, ‘Moses, my lord, stop them’ But Moses answered him, ’Are you jealous for my sake? Would that all the people of the Lord were prophets! Would that the Lord might bestow His spirit on them all!”
Mark9.38-41. ‘John said, ‘Teacher, we saw someone driving demons in your name and we tried to prevent him because he does not follow us.’
Jesus replied, ’Do not prevent him. There is no one who performs a mighty deed in My Name who can at the same time speak ill of me.
For whoever is not against us is with us. Anyone who gives you a cup of cold water to drink because you belong to Christ, Amen, I say to you, will surely not lose his reward.’
Matthew 16:18.’And I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it, I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loosen earth shall be loosed in heaven.”
The explanatory notes in the New Standard American Bible (NASB) with ref. to Matthew 16.19 states, “The keys to the kingdom of heaven: the image of the keys is probably drawn from Isaiah 22:15-25,where Eliakim, who succeeds Shebhnah as master of the palace, is given “the key to the house of David,” which he authoritatively ‘opens’ and ‘shuts’(22.22).
That the keys are those to the kingdom of heaven and that Peter’s exercise of authority in the church on earth will be confirmed in heaven show an intimate connection between, but not an identification of the church and the kingdom of heaven.
John6:44:’ No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draw him. And I will raise him up on the last day.’
John6:37: ‘Everything that the Father gives me will come to me, and I will not reject anyone who comes to me.’
The holy Pope has prayed in a Syrian mosque and kissed the Holy Quran.
Catechism of the Catholic Church (CC819) says: “Many elements of sanctification and of truth are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements. Christ’s Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him, and are in themselves calls to Catholic unity.”
As Cardinal Ratzinger (Pope Benedict XVI) says in ‘Journey towards Easter’ page141: No one has the right to excommunicate.’ We should adopt a constructive, reductionist and revisionist approach.

None of this means that we can share communion with Protestants or other unbelievers. Holy Communion is a sign of total unity. We can partake together after we have actually become unified, but it would be false and misleading to do so beforehand.

 

[JonNC]

None of this means that we can share communion with Protestants or other unbelievers. Holy Communion is a sign of total unity. We can partake together after we have actually become unified, but it would be false and misleading to do so beforehand.

LCMS takes the same stand. What we can do, in the mean time, is speak with respect for each other’s Eucharist, and pray for the time of unity.

Jon

 

[Paul3144]

LCMS takes the same stand. What we can do, in the mean time, is speak with respect for each other’s Eucharist, and pray for the time of unity.

Jon

I disagree with closed/close Communion. The Eucharist is a sign of unity, but not of denominational unity. It is a sign of our unity under Christ and that’s why I’m a supporter of open Communion. Of course, if I’m at a Church where I’m not invited, I refrain from Communion out of respect for that Church.

 

[viper78912]

None of this means that we can share communion with Protestants or other unbelievers. Holy Communion is a sign of total unity. We can partake together after we have actually become unified, but it would be false and misleading to do so beforehand.

The Protestants agree that their Communion fellowship is symbolic.
If a wedding toast is raised with champagne, wine, etc. or with a soft drink, does it make a difference? Does it mean that Jesus Christ does not mingle with non Catholics?
Jesus Christ died for the world. (John3:16). He did not Die for any religion.
Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI have both prayed in the mosque. Pope Benedict XVI kissed the holy Quran.
Jesus Prayed,” That all may be one….” (John17.11).
If a wedding toast is raised with champagne, wine, etc. or with a soft drink, does it make a difference? Does it mean that Jesus Christ does not mingle with non Catholics?
Where two or three are gathered in My Name, I Am There. (Matthew18.20).
Evangelist Billy Graham wrote the eulogy for Pope John Paul II.

 

[Paul3144]

The Protestants agree that their Communion fellowship is symbolic.

Care to back that up? Very few Protestants believe that.

 

[Mickey]

Care to back that up? Very few Protestants believe that.

It is the other way around. Most reformed institutions see it as purely symbolic. There are a few exceptions such as Lutherans and Methodists.

From the Southern Baptist official website:

The Lord’s Supper is a symbolic act of obedience whereby members of the church, through partaking of the bread and the fruit of the vine, memorialize the death of the Redeemer and anticipate His second coming.
sbc.net/bfm/bfm2000.asp#vii

 

[JonNC]

The Protestants agree that their Communion fellowship is symbolic.

I do not know from what tradition you speak, because you don’t have it posted, but your information is, at least in part, faulty. This from the Apology of the Augsburg Confession:

…we confess that we believe, that in the Lord’s Supper the body and blood of Christ are truly and substantially present, and are truly tendered, with those things which are seen, bread and wine, to those who receive the Sacrament. This belief we constantly defend, as the subject has been carefully examined and considered. For since Paul says, 1 Cor. 10:16, that the bread is the communion of the Lord’s body, etc., it would follow, if the Lord’s body were not truly present, that the bread is not a communion of the body, but only of the spirit of Christ. 55] And we have ascertained that not only the Roman Church affirms the bodily presence of Christ, but the Greek Church also both now believes, and formerly believed, the same. For the canon of the Mass among them testifies to this, in which the priest clearly prays that the bread may be changed and become the very body of Christ. And Vulgarius, who seems to us to be not a silly writer, says distinctly that bread is not a mere figure, but 56] is truly changed into flesh

Jon

 

[Bill_Pick]

I have often heard that Protestants should not receive holy Communion at Catholic Mass, and totaly agree that they should not…But is it permissable for us Catholics to participate in Protestant communion services???

Its just having crakers and grape juice