Communion at Protestant churches

[Godscre]

My Mom passed away in Feb. (she was Methodist). I’m a convert to the Catholic Church (I was AG and attended their seminary). My neighbor is the new Pastor of the Methodist Church where I grew up and have friends there. I would not take communion which felt unloving towards my Mom. I tood communion there last Sunday, my first time in about 14 years (I’m refused an ecumenical communion at a St. Park Chaplain service which I was).
If I sinned for being loving, it seems a little off to me. We are all Christians who believe in Jesus. I think taking the Lord’s supper unworthily is more about being at odds with a brother and taking the Lord’s body and blood in an unloving, unChristian manner as Scripture says, that’s why we pass the peace which should go beyond the walls.
It was very hard to become Catholic because we are told what to believe which may not be true belief, but on the edge of brain washing. The Scripture says that the Holy Spirit will teach us. The Holy Spirit is always peaceful and doesn’t force anyone to do anything. I also don’t see much compassion in Church for factory farmed animals who are used at church events. Any explanation here?

 

[jmcrae]

My Mom passed away in Feb. (she was Methodist). I’m a convert to the Catholic Church (I was AG and attended their seminary). My neighbor is the new Pastor of the Methodist Church where I grew up and have friends there. I would not take communion which felt unloving towards my Mom. I tood communion there last Sunday, my first time in about 14 years (I’m refused an ecumenical communion at a St. Park Chaplain service which I was).
If I sinned for being loving, it seems a little off to me. We are all Christians who believe in Jesus. I think taking the Lord’s supper unworthily is more about being at odds with a brother and taking the Lord’s body and blood in an unloving, unChristian manner as Scripture says, that’s why we pass the peace which should go beyond the walls.
It was very hard to become Catholic because we are told what to believe which may not be true belief, but on the edge of brain washing. The Scripture says that the Holy Spirit will teach us. The Holy Spirit is always peaceful and doesn’t force anyone to do anything. I also don’t see much compassion in Church for factory farmed animals who are used at church events. Any explanation here?

Receiving or “taking” communion in a church that is not your own sends a message that Christian unity has been achieved, and that Protestantism has ended. It hasn’t - not by a long shot. God doesn’t want us to deceive ourselves. He wants us to be honest, even when the truth is difficult. When you are offered Communion in a church that is not your own, use it as an opportunity to pray with that person for Christian unity to come about some day soon.

 

[Grace_Seeker]

When you are offered Communion in a church that is not your own, use it as an opportunity to pray with that person for Christian unity to come about some day soon.

Godscre, bless you for realizing that the answer to that prayer was present in your presence and a willingness to accept the invitation as being offered by a brother in Christ. IAll the good jokes about special sections of heaven being reserved aside, don’t imagine that St. Peter is going to be checking denominational affiliation at the golden gates and I don’t think Jesus is going to use those means when we are seated at the heavenly banquet. Why we do on earth seems to me to be more about our human preferences than God’s will for his people.

I invite all who are in Christ to come forward and would exclude no one. Should our sister jmcrae exclude herself that is her business and between her and the Lord. But I won’t tell anyone who is a brother and sister in Christ that he/she isn’t welcome just as they are a member of the body of Christ.

 

[Godscre]

Thank you for your comments. We will know Jesus’ disciples by their fruit including love, (which includes kindness), joy, peace, and patience. There is a retired Methodist Minister who lives and teaches God’s compassion for all life. We are made in God’s image but some live it more than others. We will all be held accountable someday. Are we truly following Jesus? Will He find faith on earth when He returns? I think all here are striving to follow Him as best we can. We will only need to answer God in the end.
In fellowship,
Jan
Hebrews 4:13

 

[emeraldcoast]

Godscre, bless you for realizing that the answer to that prayer was present in your presence and a willingness to accept the invitation as being offered by a brother in Christ. All the good jokes about special sections of heaven being reserved aside, I don’t imagine that St. Peter is going to be checking denominational affiliation at the golden gates and I don’t think Jesus is going to use those means when we are seated at the heavenly banquet. Why we do so on earth seems to me to be more about our human preferences than God’s will for his people.

I invite all who are in Christ to come forward and would exclude no one. Should our sister jmcrae exclude herself that is her business and between her and the Lord. But I won’t tell anyone who is a brother and sister in Christ that he/she isn’t welcome just as they are a member of the body of Christ.

Amen! It is the Jesus’ invitation to partake in the Lord’s Supper - who are we to deny another.

God Bless!

 

[ClydeW]

“Whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes. Therefore, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. A man ought to examine himself before he eats of the bread and drinks of the cup. For anyone who eats and drinks without recognizing the body of the Lord eats and drinks judgment on himself” (1 Cor. 11:26-29).

Most Protestant churches believe that the Lord is present at communion and is in (although we know not how) the bread and wine we partake of. The bread and wine does not turn into Christ’s blood and body, anyone can look at it and see that doesn’t happen but He is there. We do not claim to know exactly how but His presence can be felt.

We condemn the false belief that the substance of the bread and wine are transubstantiated into the actual blood and body of Christ. The true body and blood is not received by the mouth but is spiritually received in the heart by faith.

The Lord’s Supper is a personal matter, it is never a private matter. Those who commune at the same altar are thereby declaring publicly that they are united in the doctrine of the Apostles. (Acts 2:42) Therefore the fellowship in the Supper is church fellowship as taught in Scripture. No one should partake of the Communion however if he is unworthy at that time. This is also a sin and a very serious one.

As there is but one bread and one loaf from which we eat, we who are eating of this loaf of are one body. Our participation in the Lord’s Supper is a public profession on our part that we are not only in fellowship with Christ, but that we belong together. All of us Christians who in the Lord’s Supper eat the body of Christ and drink His blood present ourselves as one spiritual family. Christ’s body and blood ties us together more closely than the bonds of blood. We declare ourselves to be brothers and sisters in Christ.

To admit those who believe differently to our Communion, and so to our church fellowship, is a contradiction in itself. Those who approach the same altar together profess to be one—one in all points of Christian doctrine and practice—while in reality they disagree. It would be hypocrisy on our part if we would have those who actually profess a different faith that we do join us at the Lord’s Altar.

It would be a sin to partake of the Lord’s Supper in a church in which one disagrees with their teaching.

Roman Catholics believe that the wine and bread actually turn into the body and blood of Christ and they should not partake of Communion in a church that doesn’t believe that. In fact, in most Roman Catholic Churches, the priests do not allow the laity to even drink from the cup but instead, only eat the bread. That is not Scriptural at all.

So for them to partake of Communion in a Protestant church would be a sin and the opposite would also be true.

Clyde

 

[viper78912]

Jesus Christ Died for the world (John3:16)
Jesus Christ is a Relationship, not a religion.”No one can come to Me unless the Father Who Sent me Draw him, and I Will Raise him up on the last day.” (John6:44).
Everything that The Father Gives Me will come to Me, and I Will not Reject anyone who comes to Me…” (John6:37)

 

[Grace_Seeker]

It would be a sin to partake of the Lord’s Supper in a church in which one disagrees with their teaching.

In so far as by this you mean where one disagrees with their teaching as to who Christ is I agree. But with regard to other aspects of the various teachings that seem to proliferate among those who follow Jesus Christ, I do not see the need to be in full agreement in order to take communion together. If this standard were followed in all things, then everyone would be forced to take communion privately for none of us is in total agreement with anyone else. Thus there we look for that which is essential to agree upon. That essential item that makes us one with one another is belief in Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior. If you claim that as I claim that, I extend the right hand of fellowship for you are my brother, my sister in Christ. You are most welcome in my congregation, my home, and at my table.

 

[Godscre]

God gave us choices to believe in what we want to in regard to our walk with Jesus.
What is sin to one person isn’t sin to another - there are lots of grey areas. God looks at our hearts and knows everything. He reigns out of love and NOT fear (ie. you will go to hell if you don’t believe this or that or miss church, etc.).
Love casts out fear.
In Jesus the Prince of Peace,
Jan

 

[jmcrae]

Thank you for your comments. We will know Jesus’ disciples by their fruit including love, (which includes kindness), joy, peace, and patience. There is a retired Methodist Minister who lives and teaches God’s compassion for all life. We are made in God’s image but some live it more than others. We will all be held accountable someday. Are we truly following Jesus? Will He find faith on earth when He returns? I think all here are striving to follow Him as best we can. We will only need to answer God in the end.
In fellowship,
Jan
Hebrews 4:13

Right - and there is nothing in the Gospel that would convict us for not pretending that we are something we are not. We don’t have to have a fakey “love feast” just to make people feel welcomed.

If that’s all it was, Jesus would not have died on the Cross for it. He would have stopped HIs ministry with the multiplication of the loaves and fishes, and just told the people, “Okay, now just keep doing that.” He would not have continued with the lesson by walking across the water, nor given the Bread of Life Discourse that followed immediately after that. The multiplcation of the loaves and fishes would have been the New Covenant miracle, and He would then have just gone on with His life, and died of a quiet old age in His bed.

But the New Covenant is not only about sharing food with each other. There is a lot more to it. Simply deciding on our own that we can have Holy Communion together does not cause the rest of our differences to disappear. We should not be making this sign of unity, until unity actually exists. Until then, it is not the truth, and we are required by God to be people of truth.

 

[Grace_Seeker]

But the New Covenant is not only about sharing food with each other. There is a lot more to it. Simply deciding on our own that we can have Holy Communion together does not cause the rest of our differences to disappear. We should not be making this sign of unity, until unity actually exists. Until then, it is not the truth, and we are required by God to be people of truth.

You are correct that New Covenant is NOT about sharing food with one another. It isn’t even about being in fellowship with one another. Nor is it even about all being in one Church together. The New Covenant is a covenant that supercededs the Old Covenant and has to do with the nature of our relationship with God. It is no longer achieved by mere obedience to the Law and the sacrifice of the blood of goats and bulls. Rather it is accomplished for us through the sacrifice of the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world and by his atoning death on the cross reconciles us to God. Those who have been baptized into this New Covenant are full participants in it with Jesus for we co-heirs with Christ.

Now you and I may be of different denominations. But you are in Christ, and I am in Christ. So, we are both in Christ. Our unity is realized in Christ, not in communion. Whether you recognize it or not scripture does. So, now we are brother and sister in Christ. Shall we recognize that on earth, as it is already recognized in heaven? You say, “No.” So, I will respect that you don’t invite me to your table. But I will still invite you to mine. And I won’t make you change who you are to come, for since you are in Christ, as I read the scriptures, that common identity that we share in Christ is the only thing that is relevant.

We may not be united in all of our beliefs, Again, no two people, not even should both be bishops of the Catholic Church, are completely united in their beliefs. And we could focus on those differences if we so choose. But we are united in Christ, and that is THE unity that matters.

 

[jmcrae]

Rather it is accomplished for us through the sacrifice of the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world and by his atoning death on the cross reconciles us to God.

Right, and just as the Jews ate the meat of the lambs and goats that were sacrifices, so we Catholics eat the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ, sacrificed on the Cross for us, at Holy Communion, in order to enter into that Sacrifice and to become part of it, in the same way that the Jews entered into their sacrifices by consuming the meat of them.

Our unity is realized in Christ, not in communion.

What you don’t understand is that the Eucharist is Christ on the Cross, dying for our sins and rising from the dead in glory. Not just a piece of bread, or just a symbol.

Whether you recognize it or not scripture does. So, now we are brother and sister in Christ. Shall we recognize that on earth, as it is already recognized in heaven? You say, “No.” So, I will respect that you don’t invite me to your table.

I would certainly invite you to our table of fellowship. Everyone is welcome to join us for Church suppers and other similar events.

What I’m not inviting you to is the Altar of Sacrifice, not because I think you’re not my sister or brother, but because you are unable to discern Christ in the breaking of the bread. (I am referring to the incident at Emmaus, which we read about toward the end of the Gospel of Luke, where it says, “And they discerned Him in the breaking of the bread.”) St. Paul tells us that those who don’t discern the Body and Blood should not take part, since they could not receive worthily. (I Corinthians 11)

 

[Grace_Seeker]

What I’m not inviting you to is the Altar of Sacrifice, not because I think you’re not my sister or brother, but because you are unable to discern Christ in the breaking of the bread. (I am referring to the incident at Emmaus, which we read about toward the end of the Gospel of Luke, where it says, “And they discerned Him in the breaking of the bread.”) St. Paul tells us that those who don’t discern the Body and Blood should not take part, since they could not receive worthily. (I Corinthians 11)

You’re still invited to Christ’s table in my congregation. And the reason is because I do discern you to be part of the body of Christ. Interesting that you should discern me that way and yet tell me that I’m not invited to the Thanksgiving celebration of the sacrifice that makes us one body. But that is your choice, and I do my best to respect it.

As regard your rationale that I am not able to discern Christ in the breaking of the bread, let’s take a look at the Emmaus passage you mention. Luke 24:

28And they drew night to the town, whither they were going: and he made as though he would go farther.

29But they constrained him; saying: Stay with us, because it is towards evening, and the day is now far spent. And he went in with them.

30And it came to pass, whilst he was at table with them, he took bread, and blessed, and brake, and gave to them.

31And their eyes were opened, and they knew him: and he vanished out of their sight.

32And they said one to the other: Was not our heart burning within us, whilst he spoke in this way, and opened to us the scriptures?

33And rising up, the same hour, they went back to Jerusalem: and they found the eleven gathered together, and those that were staying with them,

34Saying: The Lord is risen indeed, and hath appeared to Simon.

35And they told what things were done in the way; and how they knew him in the breaking of the bread.

You said, "And they discerned him in the breaking of the bread. The Douay-Rheims says “they knew him”. What specifically do you think occured?

a) They realized that the stranger they had been walking with and who was breaking the bread was Jesus.
b) They understood that Jesus was mystically present in the bread itself.
c) They were actually consuming Jesus body at the time.
d) Something else entirely. If so, please describe…

How do verses 30 & 31 “he took bread, and blessed, and brake, and gave to them. And their eyes were opened, and they knew him” relate to verse 35 “they knew him in the breaking of the bread.” ?

a) When their eyes were opened they knew that it was Jesus who transubstantiated the bread they were eating.
b) When their eyes were opened they realized that it was Jesus who had been walking with them and also opening the scriptures to them that whole walk to Emmaus.
c) They don’t relate to each other. Vs. 31 is about seeing with one’s eyes and vs. 35 is about discerning with one’s heart.

 

[O.S.Luke]

What you don’t understand is that the Eucharist is Christ on the Cross, dying for our sins and rising from the dead in glory. Not just a piece of bread, or just a symbol.

Who said that “we” don’t understand that? On the contrary, our official church teaching on the matter reflects just that:

Holy Communion is a type of sacrifice. It is a re-presentation, not a repetition, of the sacrifice of Christ. Hebrews 9:26 makes clear that “he has appeared once for all at the end of the age to remove sin by the sacrifice of himself.” Christ’s atoning life, death, and resurrection make divine grace available to us. We also present ourselves as sacrifice in union with Christ (Romans 12:1; 1 Peter 2:5) to be used by God in the work of redemption, reconciliation, and justice. In the Great Thanksgiving, the church prays: “We offer ourselves in praise and thanksgiving as a holy and living sacrifice, in union with Christ’s offering for us . . .” (United Methodist Hymnal, Word and Table I; page 10).

and

The Christian church has struggled through the centuries to understand just how Christ is present in the Eucharist. Arguments and divisions have occurred over the matter. The Wesleyan tradition affirms the reality of Christ’s presence, although it does not claim to be able to explain it fully. John and Charles Wesley’s 166 Hymns on the Lord’s Supper are our richest resource for study in order to appreciate the Wesleyan understanding of the presence of Christ in the Eucharist. One of these hymns expresses well both the reality and the mystery: “O the Depth of Love Divine,” stanzas 1 and 4 (The United Methodist Hymnal, 627):

*O the depth of love divine,
the unfathomable grace!
Who shall say how bread and wine
God into us conveys!
How the bread his flesh imparts,
how the wine transmits his blood,
fills his faithful people’s hearts
with all the life of God!

Sure and real is the grace,
the manner be unknown;
only meet us in thy ways
and perfect us in one.
Let us taste the heavenly powers,
Lord, we ask for nothing more.
Thine to bless, 'tis only ours
to wonder and adore.*

• both quotes from This Holy Mystery, the official teaching of the Eucharist in United Methodism

It not “our” table - and none of us are even worthy enough to gather up the crumbs. Yet Christ still invites us - indeed, He even invited Peter who would deny Him and Judas who would betray Him.

As one ordained, I would tremble in my shoes to deny the sustaining sacrament to one who presented himself as as confessed and repentant Christian who believed in Christ’s real and holy presence. What would I say to my Lord when He asks me why I denied His Presence to one of his brothers or sisters? I doubt that heaven would be my next destination.

It’s not my (or our) table and altar - it’s the table and altar of the Lord.

If, jmcrae, you believe that the Catholic Church is the only Church, you must go on believing as you believe. However, I am not willing to gamble the salvation of others and myself by playing gatekeeper of the altar and table.

O+

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

If, jmcrae, you believe that the Catholic Church is the only Church, you must go on believing as you believe. However, I am not willing to gamble the salvation of others and myself by playing gatekeeper of the altar and table.

O+

I believe that is your responsibility to be gatekeeper, at least according to this passage:

1 Cor 11
27Therefore, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. 28A man ought to examine himself before he eats of the bread and drinks of the cup. 29For anyone who eats and drinks without recognizing the body of the Lord eats and drinks judgment on himself.

 

[Grace_Seeker]

I believe that is your responsibility to be gatekeeper, at least according to this passage:

1 Cor 11
27Therefore, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. 28A man ought to examine himself before he eats of the bread and drinks of the cup. 29For anyone who eats and drinks without recognizing the body of the Lord eats and drinks judgment on himself.

But not even the Pope discerns the body of Christ to be only those who are members of the Catholic Church. We are all one in Christ. Or do you still fail to discern the body of Christ, even as you partake of his flesh in the Eucharist? That to me would seem to be one way of partaking of the sacrament in an unworthy manner.

 

[Godscre]

Interesting discussion.

Who caused division first in the body of Christ?? Only Jesus knows. I wasn’t there and we can only read about the hatred that spread because other Christians didn’t believe the same rules/doctrine as others. Who were the true Christians? Those who spread hate and division or those who simply loved and followed Jesus?
What we do know is what he taught about our faith in HIM and: “Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called children of God.” Jesus Mt. 5:9
Peace and love to all of my brothers and sisters IN Christ.
Jan

 

[jmcrae]

Interesting discussion.

Who caused division first in the body of Christ?? Only Jesus knows. I wasn’t there and we can only read about the hatred that spread because other Christians didn’t believe the same rules/doctrine as others.

And you don’t consider that to be disunity? What if a group of Americans decided they wanted to live under something other than the American Constitution, or decided to make up their own laws? Could they still be considered Americans?

What would you think of a driver who made up his own rules of the road, instead of following those established by the City Council? Do you think he should be allowed to keep his driver’s license?

Who were the true Christians? Those who spread hate and division or those who simply loved and followed Jesus?

Those who simply loved and followed Jesus remained Catholic. They didn’t get involved in the Protestant divisions.

What we do know is what he taught about our faith in HIM and: “Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called children of God.” Jesus Mt. 5:9
Peace and love to all of my brothers and sisters IN Christ.
Jan

You can’t make peace by pretending there is already peace, when there isn’t.

 

[jmcrae]

But not even the Pope discerns the body of Christ to be only those who are members of the Catholic Church. We are all one in Christ. Or do you still fail to discern the body of Christ, even as you partake of his flesh in the Eucharist? That to me would seem to be one way of partaking of the sacrament in an unworthy manner.

The Pope also does not allow non-Catholics to receive Holy Communion in the Catholic Church. He’s the one making the rule, here. To be in unity with him doesn’t only mean receiving Holy Communion in his Church; it also means following his rules.

 

[Grace_Seeker]

The Pope also does not allow non-Catholics to receive Holy Communion in the Catholic Church. He’s the one making the rule, here. To be in unity with him doesn’t only mean receiving Holy Communion in his Church; it also means following his rules.

I thought your post about being American was more to the point. You see in 1776 not only did Americans in rebellion against the King of England see themselves as no longer British they primarily saw themselves as New Yorkers and Virginians, not Americans. So, when the war was over there was not one country but 13 different ones. We have that today in Christendom. And as long as we think it is about the rules of some earthly authority I suspect that we always will. But once we realize that there is something bigger than ourselves, well then we can unite under one Lordship, the Lordship of Christ. When the 13 different soveriegn states decided that they should be something bigger than their own set of rules and heirarchy. That they had more in united them than dividing them, they decided that they could still be New Yorkers and Virginians, but that beyond that they were also all Americans. And in so doing they decided to dismantle some of the walls they had erected between each other. They became stronger for it. And I suspect that though there will always be some differences between respective groups of Christians, when we recognize that we are one in Christ and take done some of the walls we erected between one another, that we in Christendom will be stronger for it as well.