Communion being restricted

  • Thread starter Thread starter JoyToTheWhirled
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
J

JoyToTheWhirled

Guest
I’m currently talking to some protestant friends about communion, specifically about who should take it, and I have tried, as winsomely as possible to put forward the Catholic view (without actually saying ‘this is the Catholic view’) . I’ve been confounded by a really individualistic approach to 1 Corinthians 11:27-30 and the zinger that Jesus gave communion to Judas so the church has no business refusing anyone. Any help?
 
Who says Jesus gave Judas the Eucharist?

You will not find anywhere in Sacred Scripture that says he did.

Rather one finds that Judas left…the supper…
 
Yes Paul (and of course the Holy Spirit) - very serious about examining oneself …etc in terms of the Eucharist.

Catholics are yes to examine their conscience - so as not to receive unworthily (in mortal sin).
 
John 13:26 says…

Jesus answered, “It is the one to whom I will give this piece of bread when I have dipped it in the dish.” Then, dipping the piece of bread, he gave it to Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot.
 
JoyToTheWhirled said:
I’m currently talking to some protestant friends about communion, specifically about who should take it, and I have tried, as winsomely as possible to put forward the Catholic view (without actually saying ‘this is the Catholic view’) . I’ve been confounded by a really individualistic approach to 1 Corinthians 11:27-30 and the zinger that Jesus gave communion to Judas so the church has no business refusing anyone. Any help?
Click to expand...
Interesting zinger.

But in accordance with the scripture you quoted, you bring judgement on yourself by taking it unworthily. And Jesus, being God, knew the guy was already a goner.

So that’s that.
 
The truth is pretty simple. We get the teaching from directly from St. Paul.

There were always people (gnostics, etc) who were outside communion with the Church. From the very beginning, the Church did not share communion with people who didn’t share our common beliefs. So it’s natural that the Church would continue this.

Also, from our point of view, we consider it a favor we are doing for them… preventing them from committing sacrilege, even though they don’t believe they are sinning. Afterall, it’s better to be safe than sorry
 
godisgood77 said:
Unless of course we are talking Jesus’ parable of the talents I which case playing it safe is condemned harshly.
Click to expand...
I was referring to playing it safe to avoid hell. Not playing it safe and not using your talents to their full potential.
 
JoyToTheWhirled said:
I’m currently talking to some protestant friends about communion, specifically about who should take it, and I have tried, as winsomely as possible to put forward the Catholic view (without actually saying ‘this is the Catholic view’) . I’ve been confounded by a really individualistic approach to 1 Corinthians 11:27-30 and the zinger that Jesus gave communion to Judas so the church has no business refusing anyone. Any help?
Click to expand...
They likely don’t believe it’s the body of Christ, so it’s just symbolic bread.

Or, they don’t believe in consecration by an ordained priest. Any lay person will do.
 
Lion_IRC said:
John 13:26 says…

Jesus answered, “It is the one to whom I will give this piece of bread when I have dipped it in the dish.” Then, dipping the piece of bread, he gave it to Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot.
Click to expand...
I believe you are mistaken if you believe that was the Eucharist. That was something they were eating that was dipped in the dish.

It was when Jesus “took bread…” that He gave them Himself. Judas had already left.

Sorry I did not look up exact quotes, as I do not have the time at this moment.
 
Dorothy said:
I believe you are mistaken if you believe that was the Eucharist. That was something they were eating that was dipped in the dish.

It was when Jesus “took bread…” that He gave them Himself. Judas had already left.

Sorry I did not look up exact quotes, as I do not have the time at this moment.
Click to expand...
St.Mark 14; 12-16 states Judas left
St Matthew 27 ;20-25 does not state if Judas left but does have the event in question before the institution of the Eucharist.
St.Luke 22: 14-20 institution of Eucharist 21-23 revelation of the betrayer.
 
fbl9 said:
St.Mark 14; 12-16 states Judas left
St Matthew 27 ;20-25 does not state if Judas left but does have the event in question before the institution of the Eucharist.
St.Luke 22: 14-20 institution of Eucharist 21-23 revelation of the betrayer.
Click to expand...
Thank you!
 
fbl9 said:
St.Mark 14; 12-16 states Judas left
St Matthew 27 ;20-25 does not state if Judas left but does have the event in question before the institution of the Eucharist.
St.Luke 22: 14-20 institution of Eucharist 21-23 revelation of the betrayer.
Click to expand...
I do not see Matthew 27: 20-25 being about the Last Supper, or about anything before the institution of the Eucharist.

I do not see Mark 14: 12-16 stating that Judas left. Mark 14:17,18 mentions the betrayer.
 
Dorothy said:
Lion IRC;14036800:
John 13:26 says…

Jesus answered, “It is the one to whom I will give this piece of bread when I have dipped it in the dish.” Then, dipping the piece of bread, he gave it to Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot.
Click to expand...
I believe you are mistaken if you believe that was the Eucharist. That was something they were eating that was dipped in the dish.

It was when Jesus “took bread…” that He gave them Himself. Judas had already left.

Sorry I did not look up exact quotes, as I do not have the time at this moment.
Click to expand...
Fr. Vincent Serpa answered a question on this topic implying AFAICT that Judas did receive the (Last Supper) Eucharist from Jesus and that the act was in some way connected with the
over-all betrayal of Jesus.

Link
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=1471&highlight=judas+eucharist
 
The Eucharist is the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ.
This is a fundamental, basic tenet of the Catholic faith.
Protestants do not share this belief.
Besides the Eucharist being the Body of Christ, accepting communion signifies unity with the Catholic faith----- why would a Protestant even want to take “our” communion?
 
anonymous_in_fl said:
The Eucharist is the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ.
This is a fundamental, basic tenet of the Catholic faith.
Protestants do not share this belief.
Besides the Eucharist being the Body of Christ, accepting communion signifies unity with the Catholic faith----- why would a Protestant even want to take “our” communion?
Click to expand...
Some use crackers and juice as “just a symbol” in memory of what Jesus did for us.

Others came up with other theories for the real presence and apostolic succession.
 
i must have missed it. where did you get your information that Jesus gave communion to judas?
 
Thank you, a quote from the fathers is exactly the kind of thing I am looking for!
 
Dorothy said:
Lion IRC,

Thank you. I still have a lot to learn about Sacred Scripture, in spite of all the bible studies!

Peace,

Dorothy
Click to expand...
Please don’t thank me sister. 🙂

I was as uncertain as you on the question and had to investigate further to find out whether or not what Judas did actually constituted the true act of partaking in the Eucharist.

I understood (from the text) that Judas was given what we now call the Eucharist but did he receive it fully and correctly in such a way that we could unequivocally use the word Eucharist in his case.

It’s bit like like the question of whether Jesus was actually baptized in the same way as we understand the word ‘baptized’.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top