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Apryl
Guest
This is a wonderful idea. Thank you so much. I will try this!
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SteveVH
Guest
I found your comment interesting. You state that "Christ is really present AT the Eucharist. Not sure if that is a subtlety that you meant or if it is just the way it is worded. If Christ is present AT the Eucharist rather than IN the Eucharist this would constitute a difference in what the “real presence” means to us. To be present AT the Eucharist would not be much diffrerent than being present “were two or more are gathered”. To be present IN the Eucharist is completely different and those that do not believe in the Catholic understanding that the Eucharist is the body, blood, soul and divinity of Christ should not receive; nor should they want to receive. If we are wrong, we are guilty of idolatry. Those who believe we are wrong would then be participating in idolatry.
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rinnie
Guest
I agree you cannot blame any Nun or Priest for not knowing or understanding your faith. I went to a Catholic School, and while I will say not all of them were as friendly as I would have liked. All of them were more than willing to teach and explain the faith if we did not understand something. Actually I had many loving Nuns also. Some were such a joy and gift from God. Others just we not good teachers as others.
That would be like me now blaming the CHurch because I do not know my faith. There are TOO TOO many books, Churchs and Bible Studys. Yes you heard me right the RCC has them too. There was just not a demand. Ask Father he will do it. ANd EWTN is a blessing. No excuse. Everyone can go to a library and study the teaching of the Early Fathers.
It people that are lazy about their faith and they are being called on it. I was a perfect example!! It takes one to know one. But I got exercise
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Justin_Mee
Guest
I am in RCIA. I accept the teaching of the Catholic Church 100%. What I could not accept by reason, I have accepted by faith alone. I thank Jesus that my RCIA instructor is a competent “Catholic.” I can not believe some of the statements that have come from “catholics” in this thread. “Catholic” is not a label. It is total belief and a way of life. If my RCIA instructor told me that I could pick and choose; accept or deny; eat the crackers and grape juice as long as I felt “christian”, I would have been long gone along with my soul. Thank God the beacon of the Catholic Church has guided me home. Perhaps we should stop trying to convince the unreachable and simply pray for them.
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SteveVH
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Not a bad idea! By the way, welcome. Converts are my favorite Catholics - at least they are taught something about their faith. Ignorance runs rampant in the Catholic pews. John Paul,II said that the greatest enemy of Christianity was Christians. I think the same thing applies to Catholics in particular. Making statements out of ignorance has probably led to a lot of the misconceptions surrounding our Church.
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Crystal_H
Guest
Justin,
That was a lovely reply. I teach confirmation for my parish and there a few who I sometime wonder if I am getting through to. I remember that I am only a vessel and only God can make them grow. Welcome home!
and to some of the others… esp to Tweetymom… WOW! really?!
That is all I can say without being uncharitable. I pray that the Holy Spirit fills you with His love and wisdom that you may discern the truth.
God Bless!.. BY the way… I am not ashamed of any of my postings… I go to Sacred Heart Parish in Tillamook!
-Crystal
That was a lovely reply. I teach confirmation for my parish and there a few who I sometime wonder if I am getting through to. I remember that I am only a vessel and only God can make them grow. Welcome home!
and to some of the others… esp to Tweetymom… WOW! really?!
That is all I can say without being uncharitable. I pray that the Holy Spirit fills you with His love and wisdom that you may discern the truth.
God Bless!.. BY the way… I am not ashamed of any of my postings… I go to Sacred Heart Parish in Tillamook!
-Crystal
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tweetymom
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Ajnd tweetymom says wow back at ya
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Carlan
Guest
Luke, I hear you saying you believe that if all Christians who believe in the Real Presence, should be able to receive Eucharist at a Catholic celebration of the Mass. You can do that if you are ready to come into full communion with the Catholic Church.Stop by the Church office anytime and sign up for RCIA. We would rejoice in having you with us
Carlan
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Carlan
Guest
I would also like to add from my notes.Luke, I hear you saying you believe that if all Christians who believe in the Real Presence, should be able to receive Eucharist at a Catholic celebration of the Mass. You can do that if you are ready to come into full communion with the Catholic Church.Stop by the Church office anytime and sign up for RCIA. We would rejoice in having you with us
Carlan
What would prevent someone from converting to Catholicism?
That would be, only if you deliberately reject something the ***Church requires all Catholics ***to believe as a matter of faith would you not be able to become a Catholic.Carlan
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Reuben_J
Guest
Good post and it makes sense. We cannot understand everything about faith and God. In trying to, we would put God in a box. Most of Catholic teachings are simple and easy to understand and it does not take a very clever person to understand them. There are some though that might not be found explicitly in the Bible. WE also have no problem with this except for some people who insist that everything must be found in the Bible for it to be true.
I like this part, when you say, “Catholic” is not a label. It is total belief and a way of life”. How true!
Welcome home and God bless you.
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CMatt25
Guest
Justin, you’ve missed a lot about the Church over time. I’ve been a Catholic for 52 yrs. Lots of history. Vatican 2 happened during my upbringing. The Church has always had some problem with dissent. But the current flavor and the degree nowadays in which some seem to wish to see freedom of conscience squashed to death is something I haven’t quite seen in my lifetime.
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Carlan
Guest
Matt, it seems to me many get the words freedom and license mixed up, and miss the meanings.:shrug:Carlan
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Tantum_ergo
Guest
Matt, I’ll up you one year (I’m 53) and you know what? The Church has never had a problem with ‘dissent’; dissenters have always had a problem with the Church.
Comments like the expectation of seeing people ‘burned at the stake’ are unworthy of someone wishing to have a serious discussion, and smack more of a biased and censorious ‘prejudgment’. Sister Maria Benigna and Sister Peter Mary would have judged those comments unworthy of a 6th grader let alone an adult.
That ‘freedom’ for the conscience presupposes an informed conscience, Matt. . .not an unanchored, indifferent, ‘relativistic’ and secular ‘feel-good’ masquerading as a conscience.
Of course, I’m not saying that this is your conscience. Not at all. I can make a legitimate comment on the caliber of your statement and its bias, but I’m not going to extrapolate that further onto commenting on your conscience. I certainly know the requirements for Catholic teaching and the conscience and if you’re 52 and went through Catholic schools (especially if you went in one of the better ones, and in the Northeast in the 1960s, and with the sisters, then you most certainly will know. So I’m holding you to the same ‘high standard’ I hold for myself regarding knowledge of Catholic teachings. . .and I’d expect you to make your comments with the courtesy and respect that you were taught, and not with such disrespect as you have done.
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Tantum_ergo
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Regarding the issue of communion then for non-Catholics, should we bring ‘conscience’ in the mix?
As Catholics, would we (should we ‘disagree’ with Church teachings) and should we trumpet that our ‘conscience’ demanded that we dissent both verbally and ‘actively’ from the Church teachings and excuse ourselves by saying that our conscience is ‘more important’ than the teaching. . .would that be considered ‘legitimate?’
I don’t believe it would as I believe that few people actually have well-enough ‘informed’ consciences when it comes down to this type of situation.
As Catholics, would we (should we ‘disagree’ with Church teachings) and should we trumpet that our ‘conscience’ demanded that we dissent both verbally and ‘actively’ from the Church teachings and excuse ourselves by saying that our conscience is ‘more important’ than the teaching. . .would that be considered ‘legitimate?’
I don’t believe it would as I believe that few people actually have well-enough ‘informed’ consciences when it comes down to this type of situation.
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The_Pilgrim
Guest
And that is the crux of the issue right there. Am I willing to submit myself to the authority of the Catholic Church? Am I willing to be under the authority of the Bishop of this diocese? Or of Rome? As an Orthodox Christian, I have to say no. there are some teachings in the CC that I have been taught are false, and because I do not believe in all of their teachings, I am not in unity with my Catholic brothers and sisters. I am not in their community, and therefore I do not have the right to be in communion with them. I accept that, and I honor the integrity of their faith by not treating their claims lightly, or dismissing them so I can feel good for five minutes in the communion line.
Many have said in this discussion that Jesus would not turn anyone away from the table, but they are confusing the openness and inclusiveness of the feeding of the five thousand with the closeness and intimacy of the last supper. When Jesus was preaching, he invited everyone nearby to the table, and shared with them; whether it was 5000 on a hillside, or a few dozen at the tax collector’s home. But when it came to sharing His body and His blood at the last supper, only those in His personal community were there. Big difference.
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Carlan
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Thank you so much for sharing that Pilgrim, and welcome to CA.
God bless, Carlan
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CMatt25
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Hi Tantum, I think you may have missed my point entirely. Since you have been a Catholic a yr longer, I just thought you might remember a time when the Church was at least a bit more tolerant than She can appear sometimes today. At least from my vantage pt that is. Maybe it was different in the NE but I don’t recall as much talk of purists and cleansing and a smaller Church and describing Protestants as ecclesiastical communities rather than churches as today. I can fondly recall my small hometown priest and PCUSA pastor and other Protestant clergy having great ecumennical relations.
If we are going to form our consciences to the best of our ability and understanding through prayer and study in our relationships with God and then truly be allowed to follow the Lord in good conscience after doing so, shouldn’t that mean more than simply informing our conscience of what the Church teaches?
And I was not meaning to sound disrespectful at all. I only used the Joan of Arc example, not because I think the Church will resort to such punishment again, but just to make a pt. As an example of what happened in history when the squashing of dissent got so extremely out of hand. I apologize if you were offended. That was not my intention.
In closing I will just leave you with these thoughts. I simply pray those in the Church today will realize their compassion and love and understanding and tolerance will go further in building the Church up than intolerance will. But all of this is simply my opinion based on my perspective and what I have seen. But YMMV as they say. May God bless and peace be with you.
If we are going to form our consciences to the best of our ability and understanding through prayer and study in our relationships with God and then truly be allowed to follow the Lord in good conscience after doing so, shouldn’t that mean more than simply informing our conscience of what the Church teaches?
And I was not meaning to sound disrespectful at all. I only used the Joan of Arc example, not because I think the Church will resort to such punishment again, but just to make a pt. As an example of what happened in history when the squashing of dissent got so extremely out of hand. I apologize if you were offended. That was not my intention.
In closing I will just leave you with these thoughts. I simply pray those in the Church today will realize their compassion and love and understanding and tolerance will go further in building the Church up than intolerance will. But all of this is simply my opinion based on my perspective and what I have seen. But YMMV as they say.
May God bless and peace be with you.
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Reuben_J
Guest
How is this in any way can change anything about non-Catholics cannot receive Holy Communion with us?In closing I will just leave you with these thoughts. ** I simply pray those in the Church today will realize their compassion and love and understanding and tolerance will go further in building the Church up than intolerance will. ** But all of this is simply my opinion based on my perspective and what I have seen. But YMMV as they say.
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CMatt25
Guest
Perhaps a future Holy Father will hear Jesus in Jn 6:37? "Everyone whom my Father gives me will come to me. I will never turn away anyone who comes to me. (GNT)
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7_Sorrows
Guest
i agree with you on that. if we are to be in a “state of grace” when receiving the sacrament, we definitely don’t want to be involved in deception. i also was raised in the Epsicopal church and didn’t understand why we would be denied communion, but that was because i didn’t realize the differences between holy communion in the episcopal church and the Eucharist in the Catholic church. although the Episcopal faith and the Catholic faith have many commonalities, there are also many differences. my daughter-in-law attends a wonderful church and they invite anyone who believes in Jesus Christ to take communion which i think is nice, but i am Catholic, so i don’t participate. their communion is a symbol and Catholics see the Eucharist in a different way. it is not a symbol to us. it is very special and is the reason we gather to celebrate the Mass. have you done any reading about the Catholic faith or have you considered sitting in on some of the RCIA classes? you would begin to see the differences in the Catholic church and how it is different than the episcopal church.
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