"Communion is not symbolic for me." Please help me explain this better to my p-side friend

[fellowChristian]

John 19
14Now it was the day of preparation for the Passover; it was about the sixth hour And he said to the Jews, “Behold, your King!”

Exodus 12
3"Speak to all the congregation of Israel, saying, ‘On the tenth of this month they are each one to **take a lamb **for themselves, according to their fathers’ households, **a lamb **for each household.

5’Your lamb shall be an **unblemished male **a year old; you may take it from the sheep or from the goats.

John 1:29
29The next day he saw Jesus coming to him and said, "Behold, **the Lamb of God **who takes away the sin of the world!

6’You shall keep it until the fourteenth day of the same month, then the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel is to kill it at twilight.

7’Moreover, they shall take some of the** blood and put it on the two doorposts **and on the lintel of the houses in which they eat it.

Matthew 26:26
The Lord’s Supper Instituted
26While they were eating, Jesus took some bread, and after a blessing, He broke it and gave it to the disciples, and said, “Take, eat; this is My body.”

**8’They shall eat the flesh **that same night, roasted with fire, and they shall eat it with unleavened bread and bitter herbs.

14’Now this day will be a memorial to you, and you shall celebrate it as a feast to the LORD; throughout your generations you are to celebrate it as a permanent ordinance.

Luke 22
19And when He had taken some bread and given thanks, He broke it and gave it to them, saying, “This is My body which is given for you; do this in remembrance of Me.”

21Then Moses called for all the elders of Israel and said to them, "Go and take for yourselves lambs according to your families, and slay the Passover lamb.

1 Corinthians 5:7
7Clean out the old leaven so that you may be a new lump, just as you are in fact unleavened. For **Christ our Passover **also has been sacrificed.

22"You shall take a **bunch of hyssop and dip it in the blood **which is in the basin, and apply some of the blood that is in the basin to the lintel and the two doorposts; and none of you shall go outside the door of his house until morning.

John 19
29A jar full of sour wine was standing there; so they put a sponge full of the sour wine upon a branch of hyssop and brought it up to His mouth.

Colossians 1:20
and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven.

24"And you shall observe this event as an ordinance for you and your children forever.

25"When you enter the land which the LORD will give you, as He has promised, you shall observe this rite.

42It is a night to be observed for the LORD for having brought them out from the land of Egypt; this night is for the LORD, to be observed by **all the sons of Israel throughout their generations. **

43The LORD said to Moses and Aaron, "**This is the ordinance of the Passover: no foreigner is to eat of it; **

44but every man’s slave purchased with money, **after you have circumcised him, then he may eat of it. **

45"A sojourner or a hired servant shall not eat of it.

46"It is to be eaten in a single house; you are not to bring forth any of the flesh outside of the house, **nor are you to break any bone of it. **

John 19
33but coming to Jesus, when they saw that He was already dead, they did not break His legs.

47"All the congregation of Israel are to celebrate this.

48"But if a stranger sojourns with you, and celebrates the Passover to the LORD, let all his males be** circumcised**, and then let him come near to celebrate it; and he shall be like a native of the land.** But no uncircumcised person may eat of it. **

Luke 22
7Then came the first day of Unleavened Bread on which the Passover lamb had to be sacrificed.

Takes on new meaning when you realize that Jesus knew He was the Passover Lamb and that He had His Apostles help to prepare the Passover Meal, Himself. No it is not symbolic. Jesus is God and nothing is impossible for God and He showed that He could feed many for long periods of time first with the manna that fell from heaven then with the loaves of bread and the fish.Sorry so long

 

[po18guy]

Excellent post! I can add only:

John 1:29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, "Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

John 1:36 When he saw Jesus passing by, he said, “Look, the Lamb of God!”

Christ’s peace be with you.

 

[Eucharisted]

I have a really good evangelical friend, and we have a lot of interesting theological discussions. I am not going to say debates because we do actually learn a lot from each other. She has a very good handle on Scripture. (Of course, there are differences in beliefs) But she knows her stuff. Her knowledge of scripture is vast.

Anyway, a while ago she mentioned she takes communion in her church. We got into a discussion on communion and how for her church it’s a symbolic nod to the last supper. For us it’s the Eucharist, the ACTUAL BODY AND BLOOD OF OUR LORD. I think we were discussing why nobody but us (and Eastern and Greek Orthodox) can take communion in our church. So I explain this to her, and she can’t seem to bend her mind around it. She continuously throws in the term “symbolic” when referring to our Eucharist.

“No, it’s not symbolic, it’s the actual BODY AND BLOOD OF JESUS CHRIST. We believe that. I believe that.”

I’ve explained the Liturgy of the Eucharist, the transformation from bread and wine to BODY AND BLOOD by the Holy Spirit, the fact that it is no longer just bread and wine, it’s not SYMBOLICALLY the Body and Blood – it actually IS. She can’t get it. She keeps throwing that term “symbolic” into each conversation about it.

So outside of plainly and clearly explaining our beliefs on this, which is simply not working, not even symbolically , what more can I do?

Would it be rude to offer her The Lamb’s Supper? See if she reads it?

It’s driving me batty. “Stop saying it’s symbolic! It’s not symbolic – your communion is symbolic!!” She got a good dig in on me last night that had me laughing, so it’s not like we are actually fighting or anything. She calls me “Uber-Catholic” LOL. She is interested/enamored in our teachings on family and marriage, and I have offered to let her borrow the Catechism.

BUT – how do I get her to understand this reality of the Eucharist? Again, I’ve said it plainly, but she can’t seem to accept it. Or she’s just getting digs in on me.

Let her go to Mass with you. Perhaps the Lord will give her a sign of the Real Prescence

 

[fellowChristian]

Excellent post! I can add only:

John 1:29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, "Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

John 1:36 When he saw Jesus passing by, he said, “Look, the Lamb of God!”

Christ’s peace be with you.

Thanks! John 1:29,is at the top of my post:blush:
I just love the parallels from the Old into the New.

I wanted to point out, but my post was so long, the bottom of Exodus 12. Did you notice the restrictions on eating the Passover lamb?

Exodus 12
47"All the **congregation of Israel **are to celebrate this.

48"But if a stranger sojourns with you, and celebrates the Passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near to celebrate it; and he shall be like a native of the land.** But no uncircumcised person may eat of it. **

Circumcision was replaced by baptism in the New Testament so following the restrictions on eating the Passover Lamb now, one must be baptized and part of the congregation. Sound familiar? So coooool it needs to be pointed out.May the peace of our Lord be with you always

 

[po18guy]

Thanks! John 1:29,is at the top of my post:blush: D’oh! :doh2: Read through it too fast

Yes! The fact is that the Passover lamb had to be eaten. A tragedy that so many have denied the clear meaning of this. Well, it was clear to the Apostles and early Church fathers.

Christ’s peace.
​

​

 

[dcrowmik]

I’m wondering if those who claim the Eucharist to only be symbolic have a problem with language. Consider this:

“And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body. And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it; For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.” - Matthew 26:26-28

Now, I suppose for the “symbolic” crowd it comes down to one word and one word only – the word “is”. If they can’t understand the meaning of the word “is” just like you have seen here, then I suppose they will just mince every other word or phrase to deny the truth.

 

[fellowChristian]

Communion has never been a symbol for me. My father always stressed
“It’s not bread it’s Jesus!” anytime somebody (family) would unknowingly refer to the Host as bread. He never explained I never asked we just understood.

Our faith is so rich and abundent that not everything is either black or white, there is a rainbow that many do not see. We who “see” are so very blessed.

All the different translations and personal interpretations can stop many from seeing. In this secular world can one come to know the Truth?

Yes.

By the grace of God.

and if somebody really wanted to know the truth.

Bethlehem

In Hebrew, the town is Bet Lehem (“House of Bread” )
and, in Arabic, it is Bet Lahm (“House of Meat”).

John 6
41Therefore the Jews were grumbling about Him, because He said,
“I am the bread that came down out of heaven.”

John 6
55"For My flesh **is true **food, and My blood is true drink.

56"He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him.

Where did our mother Mary place her Son Jesus?

In a manger. What does the word “manger” mean?

man·ger (mān’jər) Pronunciation Key
n. A trough or an open box in which feed for livestock is placed.

[Middle English, from Old French mangeoire, from mangier, **to eat, from Latin mandūcāre, from mandūcō, glutton, from mandere, to chew.]

Isn’t that the what the original verse was in Greek? (chew my flesh)

How about the word…

Host   /hoʊst/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [hohst] Show IPA Pronunciation

–noun Ecclesiastical. the bread or wafer consecrated in the celebration of the Eucharist.

Origin:
1275–1325; ME hoste < LL** hostia **Eucharistic wafer (Latin: victim, sacrifice); r. ME oyst < MF oiste < LL, as above

So lets break it down.

Jesus who said that he is the Bread that fell from heaven,was born in a place that means House of Bread or House of Meat, was also placed in something that is meant to be used for food and means to eat or to chew, and we call the Lord’s Supper the Eucharist ,which is Greek for “thanksgiving” the “Host” which means victim or sacrifice. He was also called the Lamb, which was used for the original Passover sacrificial meal.

After all that how can you not see that we are suppose to eat His flesh?

Ok so

Jesus was hung on the cross which was made from wood which came from a tree. What command did our original parents disobey?

Genesis 3
11And He said, “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree of which I commanded you not to eat?”

Genesis 3
22Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”–

(The Father,the Son and the Holy Spirit)

24So He drove the man out; and at the east of the garden of Eden He stationed the cherubim and the flaming sword which turned every direction to guard the way to the** tree of life**.

Jesus is the Tree of Life that we now have permission to eat

cool huh?:yyeess:​

 

[acw]

though this conversation took place weeks ago I really enjoyed reading it tonight. good work ladies and gents.wonderful info. I struggle and never seem to get my points across to evangelicals, even ex Catholic ones.:clapping:

 

[Cathhsmom]

I just wanted to add that you should check out www.scripturecatholic.com . It has really good scriptural references for these issues. The one on the Eucharist is at scripturecatholic.com/the_eucharist.html . Here is an exerpt that may help.

John 6:23-53 - however, a symbolic interpretation is not plausible. Throughout these verses, the Greek text uses the word “phago” nine times. “Phago” literally means “to eat” or “physically consume.” Like the Protestants of our day, the disciples take issue with Jesus’ literal usage of “eat.” So Jesus does what?

John 6:54, 56, 57, 58 - He uses an even more literal verb, translated as “trogo,” which means to gnaw or chew or crunch. He increases the literalness and drives his message home. Jesus will literally give us His flesh and blood to eat. The word “trogo” is only used two other times in the New Testament (in Matt. 24:38 and John 13:18) and it always means to literally gnaw or chew meat. While “phago” might also have a spiritual application, “trogo” is never used metaphorically in Greek. So Protestants cannot find one verse in Scripture where “trogo” is used symbolically, and yet this must be their argument if they are going to deny the Catholic understanding of Jesus’ words. Moreover, the Jews already knew Jesus was speaking literally even before Jesus used the word “trogo” when they said “How can this man give us His flesh to eat?” (John 6:52).

John 6:55 - to clarify further, Jesus says “For My Flesh is food indeed, and My Blood is drink indeed.” This phrase can only be understood as being responsive to those who do not believe that Jesus’ flesh is food indeed, and His blood is drink indeed. Further, Jesus uses the word which is translated as “sarx.” “Sarx” means flesh (not “soma” which means body). See, for example, John 1:13,14; 3:6; 8:15; 17:2; Matt. 16:17; 19:5; 24:22; 26:41; Mark 10:8; 13:20; 14:38; and Luke 3:6; 24:39 which provides other examples in Scripture where “sarx” means flesh. It is always literal.

Also, don’t forget to reference your CCC. I also have the Catholic Answers New American Bible. It is a quick reference on these kind of questions. It has them as inserts in the Bible. So, you have the defense at your fingertips.