communion question

[Kendy]

I was raised in the catholic church, but I am now a practicinng protestant. I know catholics who reject the churches teaching sexuality and actively support homosexual activists, I also know catholics who donate the money to planned parenhood to counteract the churches pro-life activities. I know catholics who refuse to give offerings in order to avoid funding pro-life activities. I know catholics who are great supporters of liberation theology. Yet, all these people receive communion, and would get really angry if I received communion eventhough I seem to agree on a lot more of the church moral teachings than they do.

I also know catholics who don’t believe in the real presence, but still receive communions. How much of the church teachings does one have to accept to receive communion?

Just Curious,
Kendy

 

[kleary]

Kendy:

I was raised in the catholic church, but I am now a practicinng protestant. I know catholics who reject the churches teaching sexuality and actively support homosexual activists, I also know catholics who donate the money to planned parenhood to counteract the churches pro-life activities. I know catholics who refuse to give offerings in order to avoid funding pro-life activities. I know catholics who are great supporters of liberation theology. Yet, all these people receive communion, and would get really angry if I received communion eventhough I seem to agree on a lot more of the church moral teachings than they do.

I also know catholics who don’t believe in the real presence, but still receive communions. How much of the church teachings does one have to accept to receive communion?

Just Curious,
Kendy

In the Catholic Church there are things we must believe and also things we must obey.

What must be believed is what has been decreed by an Ecumenical Council as far as faith and morals or by the Pope in an ex-cathedra infallible statement.

One does not have to believe in other words that homosexuality is wrong however one is not allowed to support homosexual activists and must obey what the church teaches concerning homosexual acts. As far as abortion and artificial contraception a Catholic can believe that a woman has the right to an abortion and people do have the right to use artificial contraception, yet they must obey the Church in not supporting those issues or their proponents and also not have abortions or use artificial contraception.

As far as the Real Presence goes, a Catholic MUST believe in the Real Presence as taught to them by the Catholic Church in order to receive. However, sadly there are those who are Catholic only in name or by culture who believe otherwise and who are dissenters. I know a few in my own family who refuse to go to confession believing it is not necessary, who believe the Eucharist is a symbol, no sacrifice happens at Mass, use artificial contraception and even got married civilly.

It is a sad thing. We must always pray for them.

Ken

 

[Subrosa]

As far as the gay issues, it is a matter of conscience that lies between the person and Jesus. The Church teaches that the ACT of homosexuality is a sin, but the PERSON (sinner) must be treated with human dignity. If someone supporting homosexual activity feels that they have not sinned by doing so, then receiving communion is an issue between that person and Jesus. That person will know whether or not Jesus is offended.

As far as abortion issues, the Church teaches that anyone who assists in procuring an abortion is automatically excommunicated. This act is one of (I believe) eight different actions that automatically result in excommunication. If the person has given money to an abortion clinic, then that person most likely is excommunicated. Receiving communion would be a mortal sin.

Subrosa

 

[Kendy]

Does the church believe that an excommunicated person, assuming they never return to the church, goes to hell?

Kendy

 

[tdandh26]

All of it! But remember the Priest who is administering the sacred Body of our Lord cannot know who is worthy and who is not. That is why St. Paul wrote that those who receive the bread and wine without discerning the body and blood are liable to judgement.

 

[tdandh26]

in reply to excomunication the answer is not so simple as yes or no. But a person who is excomunicated from the church is removed from the mystical body of Christ, for Christ and His Church are one. Now in the history of the Church there were those who were unjustly excomunicated but we must remember that Christ left His Church to be run by men who are sinners and not angels.

 

[tdandh26]

Kendy may I make a suggestion to you? An excellent book which I would highly recommend to you is the " Catena Aurea" compiled by Thomas Aquinas. He basically takes the writings of the earily Church Fathers and places them in a beautiful commentary on the 4 Gospels. I will pray for your reconverstion and I will ask the most Blessed Mother to place you in her immaculate heart. Your brother in Christ Pete.

 

[Kendy]

tdandh26:

I will pray for your reconverstion and I will ask the most Blessed Mother to place you in her immaculate heart.

What does that mean? With all due respect, what do you believe that blessed mother will accomplish after she has put me in her heart? Just asking… no disrespect intended.

 

[tdandh26]

I believe that since God chose to come to us through the Blessed Virgin, whom He had promised at the fall of Adam, then who are we to tell God how he should come to us now except through the queen of heaven. Which can be seen in Revelations. What I mean though is that if you say you will keep something close to your heart you mean that you will constantly remember it. So I am saying I will ask her to pray for you before the throne of Almighty.

 

[Tietjen]

Kendy:

I was raised in the catholic church, but I am now a practicinng protestant. I know catholics who reject the churches teaching sexuality and actively support homosexual activists, I also know catholics who donate the money to planned parenhood to counteract the churches pro-life activities. I know catholics who refuse to give offerings in order to avoid funding pro-life activities. I know catholics who are great supporters of liberation theology. Yet, all these people receive communion, and would get really angry if I received communion eventhough I seem to agree on a lot more of the church moral teachings than they do.

I also know catholics who don’t believe in the real presence, but still receive communions. How much of the church teachings does one have to accept to receive communion?

Just Curious,
Kendy

These are “cafeteria Catholics” and IMHO should not be confussed with Catholics. Sounds horrible and uncharitable I know but so does helping to fund the killing of the unborn! Every denomination has it’s fakers. When a church that has over 1 billion members, it stands to reason that it will have a substantial amount as well. To answer your question, real Catholics accept Church teachings, Traditions, dogma. The Church leaves room for opinion in some areas but truth is not realitive and therfore not everything can be left to the beliefs of each individual.

 

[jimmy]

Kendy:

I was raised in the catholic church, but I am now a practicinng protestant. I know catholics who reject the churches teaching sexuality and actively support homosexual activists, I also know catholics who donate the money to planned parenhood to counteract the churches pro-life activities. I know catholics who refuse to give offerings in order to avoid funding pro-life activities. I know catholics who are great supporters of liberation theology. Yet, all these people receive communion, and would get really angry if I received communion eventhough I seem to agree on a lot more of the church moral teachings than they do.

I also know catholics who don’t believe in the real presence, but still receive communions. How much of the church teachings does one have to accept to receive communion?

Just Curious,
Kendy

It is very simple, ALL of it. If you reject one doctrine you are to abstain from recieving the Eucharist. These people outright oppose the Church, they eat and drink unto their own condemnation.

 

[gusano]

Kendy:

I was raised in the catholic church, but I am now a practicinng protestant. I know catholics who reject the churches teaching sexuality and actively support homosexual activists, I also know catholics who donate the money to planned parenhood to counteract the churches pro-life activities. I know catholics who refuse to give offerings in order to avoid funding pro-life activities. I know catholics who are great supporters of liberation theology. Yet, all these people receive communion, and would get really angry if I received communion eventhough I seem to agree on a lot more of the church moral teachings than they do.

I also know catholics who don’t believe in the real presence, but still receive communions. How much of the church teachings does one have to accept to receive communion?

Just Curious,
Kendy

Very interesting post Kendy,

I don’t mean to be a “smart donkey” but…
Looks like all the catholics mentioned above are "CAFETERIA CATHOLOCS "

what is needed is ;
TO KNOW
TO UNDERSTAND
TO KEEP
THE NEW COVENANT.

out of Love and Loyalty to Jesus Christ.

gusano

 

[gusano]

Kendy:

What does that mean? With all due respect, what do you believe that blessed mother will accomplish after she has put me in her heart?
Just asking… no disrespect intended.

I appreciate your respect Kendy,

She will take your Dilemma to Jesus and say to Him:
"Kendy has no more wine."
and Jesus will say to her;
"Woman, how does this concern of yours involve me ?
Then She will instruct you; “Do whatever He tells you.”…

Jesus will begin giving you commands that seem strange …
as you obey, you will begin to discover that, you being an “earthen jar”, are being filled,
so that “New Wine” can be drawn and poured out of you.

gusano

 

[Kendy]

gusano:

Very interesting post Kendy,

I don’t mean to be a “smart donkey” but…
Looks like all the catholics mentioned above are "CAFETERIA CATHOLOCS "

what is needed is ;
TO KNOW
TO UNDERSTAND
TO KEEP
THE NEW COVENANT.

out of Love and Loyalty to Jesus Christ.

gusano

I know. I was trying gto figure out how they are more entitled to received catholic communion than me

Kendy

 

[Kendy]

gusano:

I appreciate your respect Kendy,

She will take your Dilemma to Jesus and say to Him:
"Kendy has no more wine."
and Jesus will say to her;
"Woman, how does this concern of yours involve me ?
Then She will instruct you; “Do whatever He tells you.”…

Jesus will begin giving you commands that seem strange …
as you obey, you will begin to discover that, you being an “earthen jar”, are being filled,
so that “New Wine” can be drawn and poured out of you.

gusano

That’s cute

 

[kp1]

To receive communion in the Catholic Church, you must be in “good standing”. In other words, you must be free from sin, which includes abbeting sin (support to things against the teachings of the church), believe in the dogmas of the church (Transubstantiation, The Incarnation, things listed in the Apostles Creed, etc.), and a memebr of the church through baptism or confirmation.

Did you notice that most churched offer regular confession times before the mass? This is no coincedence. If you take communion in a state of sin (really mortal because the venial sins are confessed in the beginning of church as a congrgation "I have sinned against you, in my thoughts, in my words, what I have done, and what I have failed to do…) then you will be held accountable to God for corrupting the sacrament. This is related to the dogma on Immaculate Conception, for Mary could not receive Jesus in her womb if she was not in a state of Grace, just as we can not receive Jesus if we are not in a state of Grace.

Our priest annouced in church the rules for receiveing Communion in our RCC last Sunday. He did this because a few people where abusing the sacrament, mostly they were children who did not fully understand but one was by a parent to a child who was not of age. This caused quite a stir in some of our mixed denominational families. Father was very nice about it, told people to see him if they had any issues like wanting to be Catholic, wanting to know the reasoning behind it, etc. Some people wonder if he will be chastized by the archbishop for causing a stir, but he is not worried, he says his first obligation is to God and making sure his flock is abiding by the rules. This is the same priest who has brought back Benediction, weekly rosary recitation, and requiring the CCD students to attend mass with their parents.

 

[Sherlock]

Subrosa:

As far as the gay issues, it is a matter of conscience that lies between the person and Jesus. The Church teaches that the ACT of homosexuality is a sin, but the PERSON (sinner) must be treated with human dignity. If someone supporting homosexual activity feels that they have not sinned by doing so, then receiving communion is an issue between that person and Jesus. That person will know whether or not Jesus is offended.

Subrosa

I don’t think that’s accurate: homsexual acts are intrinsically disordered. Just because someone doesn’t think that they are does not render them the judge of whether or not they have received worthily. God is the judge, not the recipient—the person receiving is not in a position to tell God whether or not God ought to be offended.

 

[Sherlock]

jimmy:

It is very simple, ALL of it. If you reject one doctrine you are to abstain from recieving the Eucharist. These people outright oppose the Church, they eat and drink unto their own condemnation.

Dittos. Of course, there may be factors that may lessen one’s culpability (such as not knowing any better, which is possible given the poor state of catechesis during the last 30 or 40 years). God alone will judge.

 

[mercygate]

Kendy:

I was raised in the catholic church, but I am now a practicinng protestant. I know catholics who reject the churches teaching sexuality and actively support homosexual activists, I also know catholics who donate the money to planned parenhood to counteract the churches pro-life activities. I know catholics who refuse to give offerings in order to avoid funding pro-life activities. I know catholics who are great supporters of liberation theology. Yet, all these people receive communion, and would get really angry if I received communion eventhough I seem to agree on a lot more of the church moral teachings than they do.

I also know catholics who don’t believe in the real presence, but still receive communions. How much of the church teachings does one have to accept to receive communion?

Just Curious,
Kendy

Yes. It does seem odd and unfair, doesn’t it? I was in a similar situation for many years: married and not contracepting, pro-life, believing all the Marian dogmas, believing in the Real Presence, accepting the social teachings of the Catholic Church – but not Catholic. I actually evangelized Catholics to their own faith all the time, and because I was an “outsider” I believe my testimony carried a certain weight that it no longer does now that I am Catholic.

But for your questions: It really does not matter (well, it matters but not for your soul) whether some Catholics are dissident and disobedient. That is between them and Our Lord.

What matters, is that you seem to have a pretty high respect for the Church, and it does you credit that you respect her disciplines and refrain from receiving Communion. This testifies to your integrity and understanding that it is the right and privilege of the Church to define doctrines and disciplines for the good of all people – those who are not in Communion and those who are. Those dissident and disobedient Catholics who receive Communion while not in a state of grace are risking their own souls. You are not in a position to change that in any way other than by your personal witness to the Catholic teachings which you are living in your own life. :tiphat:

 

[estesbob]

Subrosa:

As far as the gay issues, it is a matter of conscience that lies between the person and Jesus. The Church teaches that the ACT of homosexuality is a sin, but the PERSON (sinner) must be treated with human dignity. If someone supporting homosexual activity feels that they have not sinned by doing so, then receiving communion is an issue between that person and Jesus. That person will know whether or not Jesus is offended.

Subrosa

This is simply not true. The Church teaches that homosexual behavior is an act of depravity and can not be condoned under any circumstances. If you condone homosexual behavior you have rejected the teachings of the Church and should not recieve communion.