Communion?

  • Thread starter Thread starter brendenseth
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
No need to get snippy.

It only proves the weakness of your point, because obviously you do not understand what the Church means by those 2 words, especially the word “observance.”

It also illustrates that when this discussion comes up, it leads to people making childish remarks (like that one) as a way to distract from the actual discussion.

Saying “the observance of” is exactly the same thing as saying “the Liturgical day.” They are one and the same thing.

Sundays and other solemnities begin in the evening-before according to the secular calendar. That is why on Saturday evening, the Church prays “Evening Prayer One of Sunday” not “Evening prayer of Saturday” not “Evening Prayer the day before Sunday” not “Evening prayer in anticipation of Sunday” nor anything else.

That is why St John Paul II wrote about the Sunday Mass on Saturday:

Ad liturgicam consuetudinem enim dies festus incipit eiusmodi Sacris Vespertinis. Propterea Missae liturgia nonnumquam «praefestivae» appellatae, quae vero reapse pleno iure «festiva» est, dominici diei est, instante etiam celebrantis officio ut homiliam sacram habeat et cum fidelibus precationem universalem absolvat.
w2.vatican.va/content/john-paul-ii/la/apost_letters/1998/documents/hf_jp-ii_apl_05071998_dies-domini.html

He wrote “dominici dei est” which means “it is the Day of the Lord” or “it is Sunday” since Church Latin prefers to refer to Sunday as the Lord’s day rather than the day of the sun. It is Sunday. It does not anticipate Sunday. It it not the “day before Sunday.”

In fact, John Paul II makes a specific point of saying that the Saturday evening Mass is not the pre-feastday Mass (nonnumquam ‘praefestivae’) but it is specifically the feastday Mass (‘festiva’) of Sunday.

John Paul II says that this the reality expressed in the law—the very same law that he promulgated.

I rather think that John Paul II knew what he was writing about.
The observance is different that the day itself or the sentence would not refer to both.

Regarding dies domini, I posted on this before, and that is not the English translation given by the Church which refers to the quoted norms and refers to Saturday:
49. Because the faithful are obliged to attend Mass unless there is a grave impediment, Pastors have the corresponding duty to offer to everyone the real possibility of fulfilling the precept. The provisions of Church law move in this direction, as for example in the faculty granted to priests, with the prior authorization of the diocesan Bishop, to celebrate more than one Mass on Sundays and holy days,(85) the institution of evening Masses(86) and the provision which allows the obligation to be fulfilled from Saturday evening onwards, starting at the time of First Vespers of Sunday.(87) From a liturgical point of view, in fact, holy days begin with First Vespers.(88) Consequently, the liturgy of what is sometimes called the “Vigil Mass” is in effect the “festive” Mass of Sunday, at which the celebrant is required to preach the homily and recite the Prayer of the Faithful.

(88) Cf. Missale Romanum, Normae Universales de Anno Liturgico et de Calendario, 3.

w2.vatican.va/content/john-paul-ii/en/apost_letters/1998/documents/hf_jp-ii_apl_05071998_dies-domini.html
 
What truly bothers me about this conversation is the tone that it takes.

People write posts about other people receiving Communion and they do so as if the ones receiving Communion were hardly people; as if the value of upholding one interpretation of one single word in the law (the word “day”) should take precedence over the value of the People of God being admitted to the Lord’s Holy Table.

Canon Law does allow for a definition of the word “day” that is other than the strict midnight-to-midnight application. The canon does specifically allow for other provision to be made–whether or not it actually does is really the point of contention here, but unfortunately a point too few people are willing to actually address. Now, the liturgical law of the Church, which has no less authority than canon law (a point that many people either miss or dismiss or simply do not understand), does say that the liturgical day of Sunday begins in the evening. There is no disputing this point. People who do not understand what they are writing will dispute it. The liturgical day of Sunday begins on Saturday evening. Someone might argue that the liturgical day does not apply to the question—that’s different than the constant re-assertion of an erroneous notion that it doesn’t begin in the evening when the Church unambiguously says it begins.

As I see it, the application of a day (in this context) as midnight to midnight places undue emphasis on the value of the law as such; it treats the law as something that exists for its own sake as if there were something about the time of midnight that is divinely revealed. Midnight, in reality, is an entirely arbitrary notion. It is not even the middle of the night anymore, as it was when the daily clock had 12 equal hours of dark and 12 equal hours of light. Midnight, in the modern context, is nothing more than a few digits displayed on a clock. It is not even related to the rotation of the earth that causes sunrise and sunset. It is an entirely arbitrary measurement, one that human society could change anytime we please—we could move midnight to 3 AM if we please, or we could move it to 3 PM if we please. We already move midnight two times every year when we adjust our clocks for daylight savings time. We could even have a 10 hour or a 100 hour day if we please, we would merely have to invent some new clocks to make our hours longer or shorter.

Now, it makes perfect sense for the Church to define a day as “midnight to midnight” because, after all, we need to have something. The secular date changes at midnight, so it makes perfect sense for the Church to follow suit. It makes perfect sense when we are dealing with the business matters of the Church. It makes sense when dating a document, writing a check, keeping a log book, or any other piece of business that needs to have a date assigned.

Midnight is arbitrary. In biblical usage, the day begins at sunset. For roughly the first millennium of Christianity, the day began at sunset. That’s not to advocate returning to such a system. Instead it’s meant to illustrate that the time of 12:00 on a clock is not anything of great significance to the Christian faith. It is utilitarian, but it is nothing more than that.

In interpreting canon 917 according to the liturgical day, that’s really nothing more than reading the provisions made in the law and applying them–even though it’s applying them in a way that some people might disagree. It is not about disregard for the law. It is not about the false notion the being pastoral is the opposite of being legal. Quite the opposite, it is about finding harmony between the pastoral and the legal.

The method of the liturgical day is also not without precedent. In the 20th century, time and again, the Church uses the standard of the liturgical day to determine how many times one may receive Communion. This is not something I simply imagine as I sit at a computer keyboard. There is ample precedent for applying this standard in the official liturgical documents of the Church.

My concern is when the value of interpreting canon 917 according to a strict “midnight to midnight” understanding is done in such a way as to dismiss or disregard the very People of God whom the Code of Canon Law is supposed to be protecting in the first place. I cannot help but wonder sometimes if people think that it is more important to hold up one interpretation of a word over another interpretation of a word in such a way that so casually dismisses as irrelevant the very spiritual values that the Church is supposed to be upholding.

I really do mean that last paragraph. I still remember a while ago when discussing this subject that one poster was so entrenched in upholding the value of midnight that the poster wrote that receiving Communion has nothing to do with the Church’s Liturgy—in that person’s view, Communion was merely a legal matter which should be disassociated from the Church’s Liturgy. That kind of arguing is disturbing. Truly disturbing.

I really wonder sometimes:
Are there people out there who are proud of themselves for upholding the arbitrary measurement of midnight-to-midnight to the point where they place obstacles preventing the People of God from being admitted to Holy Communion at their only opportunity to celebrate the Sunday Mass?

As a priest, I like to think that if I can go to bed at night and think “I did a good job today, I made the Body of Christ available to God’s people, at least to those worthy to receive” then I’ve done my job.

I wonder, are there people out there who think “I did a good job today because I upheld the value of midnight-to-midnight over and against the ability of the Christian Faithful to receive the Eucharist at Sunday Mass.” Well done, good and faithful servant. (Sarcasm there no accident).
 
The observance is different that the day itself or the sentence would not refer to both.
You are posting about a vocabulary that you do not understand.

The liturgical day is the observance.

You are trying to say that a word is different from itself.

You truly do need to learn the vocabulary FIRST before posting.

The observance of a liturgical day is the very definition of a liturgical day . That’s what the words mean.

Liturgical days begin at midnight–most of them. In contrast to that, the liturgical days of Sundays and other solemnities begin the evening before.

All you keep proving is that you do not know what the term “liturgical day” means. You keep proving that over and over again. Please, you’ve made your point. You do not understand the vocabulary. I get it. There’s no need to keep proving that you don’t understand it.
Regarding dies domini, I posted on this before, and that is not the English translation given by the Church …
That is an ICEL translation that clearly does not say what St John Paul II actually wrote in the official Latin version.

That ICEL translation omits complete sentences. That’s why I provided the Latin version in my post, so people could see what he actually wrote, rather than an edited version that both changes what he wrote and omits whole sentences.

Here is the complete paragraph:

Ad liturgicam consuetudinem enim dies festus incipit eiusmodi Sacris Vespertinis. Propterea Missae liturgia nonnumquam «praefestivae» appellatae, quae vero reapse pleno iure «festiva» est, dominici diei est, instante etiam celebrantis officio ut homiliam sacram habeat et cum fidelibus precationem universalem absolvat.

Once again, I will point out to readers here what St John Paul II actually wrote:

“dominici diei est” Which means “It is Sunday.”

The Saturday evening Mass is not the pre-feastday Mass, it is the feastday Mass. It is Sunday.
 
I must mention here that those who do not understand the vocabulary being used should not attempt to dispute things which they do not understand.
While it is pretty clear that you hold the opinion that those of us posting here are attempting to dispute things we don’t understand, I did not post my own opinion on the matter because I didn’t really know the answer to that particular question posed later in the thread. So I sought out an answer, and I found one with two credentialed individuals giving their explanation.

I linked to the exposition of two people who **do **hold credentials and **do **understand what they are talking about. And, I happen to agree with them after reading their explanation.
 
You are posting about a vocabulary that you do not understand.

The liturgical day is the observance.

You are trying to say that a word is different from itself.

You truly do need to learn the vocabulary FIRST before posting.

The observance of a liturgical day is the very definition of a liturgical day . That’s what the words mean.

Liturgical days begin at midnight–most of them. In contrast to that, the liturgical days of Sundays and other solemnities begin the evening before.

All you keep proving is that you do not know what the term “liturgical day” means. You keep proving that over and over again. Please, you’ve made your point. You do not understand the vocabulary. I get it. There’s no need to keep proving that you don’t understand it.

That is an ICEL translation that clearly does not say what St John Paul II actually wrote in the official Latin version.

That ICEL translation omits complete sentences. That’s why I provided the Latin version in my post, so people could see what he actually wrote, rather than an edited version that both changes what he wrote and omits whole sentences.

Here is the complete paragraph:

Ad liturgicam consuetudinem enim dies festus incipit eiusmodi Sacris Vespertinis. Propterea Missae liturgia nonnumquam «praefestivae» appellatae, quae vero reapse pleno iure «festiva» est, dominici diei est, instante etiam celebrantis officio ut homiliam sacram habeat et cum fidelibus precationem universalem absolvat.

Once again, I will point out to readers here what St John Paul II actually wrote:

“dominici diei est” Which means “It is Sunday.”

The Saturday evening Mass is not the pre-feastday Mass, it is the feastday Mass. It is Sunday.
Liturgy of the Mass at times «Vigil» called which is in effect the “festive” Mass*** of ***Sunday

The subject of the sentence to which the verbs refer is the liturgy of the Mass, Missae liturgia, which:
  • nonnumquam «praefestivae» appellatae,
  • quae vero reapse pleno iure «festiva» est,
  • dominici diei est,
References:

Additional information for you from 2005, Proposition 30, “Dies Domini”
Although Saturday afternoon belongs already to Sunday (First Vespers), and it is permitted to fulfill the Sunday obligation with the pre-festive Mass, it is necessary to remember that it is the day of Sunday in itself which must be sanctified so that there is no “void of God.”
Source: The Synod of Bishops on the Eucharist, held in Rome, Oct. 2-23, 2005.

I. The Liturgical Day in General
3. Each day is made holy through the liturgical celebrations of the people of God, especially through the eucharistic sacrifice and the divine office.
The liturgical day runs from midnight to midnight, but the observance of Sunday and solemnities begins with the evening of the preceding day.

11. Solemnities are counted as the principal days in the calendar and their observance begins with evening prayer I of the preceding day. Some also have their own vigil Mass for use when Mass is celebrated in the evening of the preceding day.

The celebration of Easter and Christmas, the two greatest solemnities, continues for eight days, with each octave governed by its own rules.

13. Feasts are celebrated within the limits of the natural day and accordingly do not have evening prayer I. Exceptions are feasts of the Lord that fall on a Sunday in Ordinary Time and in the Christmas season and that replace the Sunday office.

ewtn.com/library/CURIA/CDWLITYR.HTM
 
…I really do mean that last paragraph. ** I still remember a while ago when discussing this subject that one poster was so entrenched in upholding the value of midnight that the poster wrote that receiving Communion has nothing to do with the Church’s Liturgy**—in that person’s view, Communion was merely a legal matter which should be disassociated from the Church’s Liturgy. That kind of arguing is disturbing. Truly disturbing.

I really wonder sometimes:
Are there people out there who are proud of themselves for upholding the arbitrary measurement of midnight-to-midnight to the point where they place obstacles preventing the People of God from being admitted to Holy Communion at their only opportunity to celebrate the Sunday Mass?

As a priest, I like to think that if I can go to bed at night and think “I did a good job today, I made the Body of Christ available to God’s people, at least to those worthy to receive” then I’ve done my job.

I wonder, are there people out there who think “I did a good job today because I upheld the value of midnight-to-midnight over and against the ability of the Christian Faithful to receive the Eucharist at Sunday Mass.” Well done, good and faithful servant. (Sarcasm there no accident).
With due respect, Father, many of us are reading this thread (1098 count as of this moment) who are not aware of past discussions that you have had with any particular members. Heck, I can’t even remember my own past discussions half the time. It appears to some of us that you are snapping at people for no reason that is apparent to us. Sometimes, well often, it seems like you are judging people for what you think others are thinking. I don’t mean this post as an attack on you. I truly am just giving you an idea of how some of you posts come across to us.
 
Sorry, but I’m not following this debate at all. It seems to me that both sides are saying, or at least acknowledging, the same thing: the liturgical day of Sunday begins on the CALENDAR Saturday, after Evening Prayer I.

What’s the dispute, exactly?
 
While it is pretty clear that you hold the opinion that those of us posting here are attempting to dispute things we don’t understand, …
That’s not what I meant (that’s not who I meant).

I mean that if someone does not understand the definition of the term “liturgical day” then such a person should not be attempting to define for anyone else when a liturgical day begins or ends–especially when the same person uses the very definition of the term “liturgical day” to attempt to prove that the term does not mean what the Church intends by the term.
 
Liturgy of the Mass at times «Vigil» called which is in effect the “festive” Mass*** of ***Sunday

The subject of the sentence to which the verbs refer is the liturgy of the Mass, Missae liturgia, which:
  • nonnumquam «praefestivae» appellatae,
  • quae vero reapse pleno iure «festiva» est,
  • dominici diei est,
Show me the word “vigil” in the Latin text. Post the sentence in Latin and put the word “vigil” in a different color font. Please do this because the Latin text of Dies Domini that I read on the Vatican website does not seem to have the word “vigil” in that sentence.
References:
Additional information for you from 2005, Proposition 30, “Dies Domini”
Although Saturday afternoon belongs already to Sunday (First Vespers), and it is permitted to fulfill the Sunday obligation with the pre-festive Mass, it is necessary to remember that it is the day of Sunday in itself which must be sanctified so that there is no “void of God.”
Source: The Synod of Bishops on the Eucharist, held in Rome, Oct. 2-23, 2005.
True. No doubt. But entirely irrelevant to the topic at hand. No one (not one single person here, certainly not myself) is suggesting that Sunday should not be a sanctified day.
I. The Liturgical Day in General
3. Each day is made holy through the liturgical celebrations of the people of God, especially through the eucharistic sacrifice and the divine office.
The liturgical day runs from midnight to midnight, but the observance of Sunday and solemnities begins with the evening of the preceding day.

11. Solemnities are counted as the principal days in the calendar and their observance begins with evening prayer I of the preceding day
. Some also have their own vigil Mass for use when Mass is celebrated in the evening of the preceding day.

The celebration of Easter and Christmas, the two greatest solemnities, continues for eight days, with each octave governed by its own rules.

13. Feasts are celebrated within the limits of the natural day and accordingly do not have evening prayer I. Exceptions are feasts of the Lord that fall on a Sunday in Ordinary Time and in the Christmas season and that replace the Sunday office.

ewtn.com/library/CURIA/CDWLITYR.HTM

There is a pattern here. You keep quoting the text that says that the liturgical day of Sunday does indeed begin in the evening.

It’s at the point where it really is quite funny.

You’re like someone who insists “that’s not a tree, it’s a tree.”

I’m trying to be kind here. Time and time again you keep posting the definition of a liturgical day that proves it begins in the evening while insisting that it does not.
 
Sorry, but I’m not following this debate at all. It seems to me that both sides are saying, or at least acknowledging, the same thing: the liturgical day of Sunday begins on the CALENDAR Saturday, after Evening Prayer I.

What’s the dispute, exactly?
One person does dispute the fact that the liturgical day of Sunday begins on Saturday evening.

That’s the frustrating thing. I keep trying to explain it to this poster over and over again. Yet the response is always to post the definition of a liturgical day in a vain attempt to “prove” that the term does not mean what the term means.

What can I say? 🤷

The larger question is this:

Does the fact that a member of the Christian Faithful happens to attend 2 Masses on Saturday (for Saturday), and receive Communion at both, mean that such a person should be excluded from receiving Holy Communion when he participates in the Mass of Sunday, if that Mass of Sunday happens to occur on Saturday evening/night?

My position is that the answer is “no.”

My position is that such a person should not be penalized for having attended 2 Saturday Masses (e.g. a votive Mass then a funeral Mass) by being excluded from Communion at the Sunday Mass.

My position is Canon 917 is not meant to be something imposed as a penalty for being a good and faithful Catholic.

My position is that since a person would never be excluded from receiving Communion at the Sunday Mass if the Mass happens after midnight, then neither should such a person be excluded from Communion if the Mass happens before midnight. The reason being that the Church regards both situations equally: there is no distinction made between the Sunday Mass before midnight and the Sunday Mass after midnight.*

My position is that there is room in the law to harmonize the Code of Canon Law with the Liturgical Law of the Church in such a way as to make use of the provision that the word “day” can mean something other than a period of midnight-to-midnight, for the sake of the good of souls.

My position is that “whatever pertain to the whole pertains to every part of the whole.” Since the whole of the Mass on Saturday evening is in-fact and in-law the Mass of Sunday then every part of that whole likewise pertains to Sunday.

Since receiving Communion is one part of the whole of full and active participation at the Sunday Mass (even if said Mass is celebrated on Saturday evening according to the secular calendar) then likewise the fact that a person had already received Communion at 2 Saturday Masses should not be an obstacle placed in the way of that full and active participation at the Sunday Mass.

  • This paragraph added in an edit after posting.
 
Makes sense…going off of memory here, canon law permits priests to celebrate three Masses on Sunday. Now, to be sure, I know many priests who celebrate more than that, either with regularity or only on occasion. But, I know of no diocese or bishop who interprets that as NOT including the Sunday Mass taking place the evening prior. In other words, you can’t use a Sunday Mass taking place on Saturday to skirt the restriction on celebrating only three Sunday Masses (i.e. One Saturday evening and three on Sunday).

Anyway, I would encourage all engaged in the debate to exercise authentic Christian charity.
 
Sorry, but I’m not following this debate at all. It seems to me that both sides are saying, or at least acknowledging, the same thing: the liturgical day of Sunday begins on the CALENDAR Saturday, after Evening Prayer I.

What’s the dispute, exactly?
There are those who would say that the canonical day and liturgical day are to be reckoned as midnight to midnight (for example, a 2014 article by Fr. R. Bona in the canon law journal “The Jurist”). That view might be “swimming against the tide” but…there it is.

Dan
 
One person does dispute the fact that the liturgical day of Sunday begins on Saturday evening.
However, I think central to the thread topic is whether the number of times per day one may receive is based on a *canonical day *versus a liturgical day.

Dr. Peters and Fr Z take the position the canons referencing number of times the faithful may receive the Eucharist are referring to a canonical day, midnight to midnight.

You seem to be taking the position it’s referring to a liturgical day, which you posit is something other than midnight to midnight on Sundays and Solemnities.

And whether it’s canonical or liturgical, it’s 2 receptions the second of which is in Mass (unless it’s Viaticum) not three or four or some other number.
 
There are those who would say that the canonical day and liturgical day are to be reckoned as midnight to midnight (for example, a 2014 article by Fr. R. Bona in the canon law journal “The Jurist”). That view might be “swimming against the tide” but…there it is.

Dan
I’m with you, or with Fr Bona if you prefer.

(although i’m not a canon lawyer like you…)
 
There are those who would say that the canonical day and liturgical day are to be reckoned as midnight to midnight (for example, a 2014 article by Fr. R. Bona in the canon law journal “The Jurist”). That view might be “swimming against the tide” but…there it is.

Dan
Ok. That question would certainly come into play, for instance, when the Immaculate Conception falls on a Saturday. It seems to me that the Mass that evening would not satisfy the obligation to attend Mass for IC, because that liturgical day would conclude with EP I of the second Sunday in Advent. I know there is a huge debate on this, and I don’t really see a reason to rehash it, but it seems tangentially related.

On the flip side of that, when Christmas falls on a Saturday, it seems to me that there would be no Sunday Mass on the evening of Christmas. The reason being that liturgically, Christmas outranks Sunday.
 
However, I think central to the thread topic is whether the number of times per day one may receive is based on a canonical day versus a liturgical day.

Dr. Peters and Fr Z take the position the canons referencing number of times the faithful may receive the Eucharist are referring to a canonical day, midnight to midnight

You seem to be taking the position it’s referring to a liturgical day, which you posit is something other than midnight to midnight on Sundays and Solemnities.

(edited to stay within the 6000 character limit).
I see it as applying to the liturgical day. I know that some will disagree with that, some of them being experts in the field. I know this. I merely (again, merely) disagree.

I’m not entirely convinced that the priest you mentioned does disagree. I do not know (emphasis here: I do not know). I know what he wrote about a person receiving 3 times in a liturgical day of Sunday (one evening, 2 the next day), but I see that as subtly different from the question of twice on Sat. morning and once on Sat. evening. I do believe that there is some room for 2 possible answers here, a different answer, each addressing the different questions.

My justification for using the standard of the liturgical day is that when I read the Church documents on this subject from the 20th century, I consistently see that same standard being applied. I read Church documents which state that a person who has already received Communion the maximum times for Saturday is not to be excluded from receiving Communion at the Saturday evening Mass—even though (at the time) there was no actual change made to the law to permit this.

I read documents from the Church that treat receiving Communion at an evening Mass and receiving at a Mass the next morning as being a repetition of Communion on the same day (and permitting this, to a max of 2).

Using the interpretation of a liturgical day is not so far-fetched as some might think. There is ample precedent for it. Most importantly, the interpretation that follows the liturgical day is the one that most harmonizes the Code of Canon Law with the liturgical law and with the value that all laws are “for the good of souls.”

It is the interpretation that the Church is consistent in Her teaching, practice, and laws. It is the interpretation that recognizes the simple fact that since the Church already tells us that everything pertaining to the Mass of Sunday on Saturday evening pertains to Sunday, then there is nothing unreasonable about doing exactly that and recognizing & applying the principle that “whatever pertains to the whole pertains to every part of the whole.” In conclusion (to this part) if I interpret the “part of that whole” (Communion) in the same way that I interpret the “whole” (the entire Mass).

That is the point I have been trying to make over and again as this topic appears here on CAF. My response to the question essentially comes down to (and rests upon) that canonical principle that says “whatever pertains to the whole pertains to every part of the whole.”

The whole of the Mass on Saturday evening pertains to Sunday; ergo, every part-of-the-whole likewise pertains to Sunday. That one sentence summarizes my entire position on the matter.

Part 2:

My starting point is not the definition of the word “day.”

Instead, I look to the purpose of canon 917. To ask the questions “what value is this canon defending?” and “what harmful act is the canon intended to protect against?”

My understanding is that the canon is intended to safeguard against an undue multiplication of Communion that is irreverent or misguided or even (in the extreme) superstitious.

Then I look at the actual situation at hand; for example, I see a faithful Catholic who attends Saturday morning votive Mass of the Immaculate Heart, then attends a funeral and receives Communion at both. I see that same person in a situation where he is participating in the Mass of Sunday, which just happens to be before midnight.

I ask myself: is such a person deserving of a penalty? should such a person be excluded from Holy Communion?

I recognize the obvious: if this person were to attend a late Mass at (let’s say) 1:00 AM on Sunday morning (a so called “printers Mass”) then there would be no hesitation whatsoever that he would be eligible to receive Communion.

I then look to the canons. I see where canon 917 simply talks about a day. Then I look to the definition of a day later in the code and I see that the word usually means “midnight to midnight” while it also explicitly permits the word to have some other meaning. So, what is that meaning? I look to the liturgical laws of the Church. I see that the liturgical law clearly says that a liturgical day of Sunday begins in the evening.

Then I ask myself, can I apply that definition of a day, taken in the liturgical sense to canon 917? In pondering that question, once again I ask myself: what is the purpose of canon 917? Is it meant to impose a penalty? Is it meant to be arbitrary? It it means to be a law for the sake of having a law? All of those questions I answer with “no.”

Instead, I answer that canon 917 is meant to be a safeguard against an irreverent multiplication of Communion. So again, I apply it to the situation. If this person before me, the one who attended 2 Saturday morning Masses acting (a) irreverently or (b) someone who desires full and active participation in his only opportunity to attend Sunday Mass. I realize that receiving Communion on Saturday is no obstacle to receiving it on Sunday, nor should it be. So then, what is the difference? The Church tells us that the Saturday evening Mass is the Mass of Sunday, and so I decide to treat that Mass just as I would any other Sunday Mass.
 
Ok. That question would certainly come into play, for instance, when the Immaculate Conception falls on a Saturday. It seems to me that the Mass that evening would not satisfy the obligation to attend Mass for IC, because that liturgical day would conclude with EP I of the second Sunday in Advent. I know there is a huge debate on this, and I don’t really see a reason to rehash it, but it seems tangentially related.

On the flip side of that, when Christmas falls on a Saturday, it seems to me that there would be no Sunday Mass on the evening of Christmas. The reason being that liturgically, Christmas outranks Sunday.
Actually, both situations are optional and are to be determined by the diocesan calendar.

Notitiae 10 (1974), 222–223

Here is a link notitiae.ipsissima-verba.org/show/155

I do think they’re related. I see them related because the Church places the value of “the good of souls” above the value of upholding the calendar for its own sake.
 
is such a person deserving of a penalty?
I think this may be where you and I part ways as I don’t see not receiving communion for a third time on one day a “penalty”. We need not receive communion at any mass we attend, indeed there are often reasons not to-- one hour fast, conscious of serious sin, a self assessment of not properly disposed-- and I’d just add “already received twice today” to the list of reasons I would not go up to receive on a particular day or at a particular mass.

I don’t view reception of communion at a particular mass as a right nor lack of reception as a penalty. It’s no more a *penalty *to refrain because I’ve already received twice today than it would be a *penalty *to refrain from receiving because I ate a bagel as I drove up to the church. it just is. It’s a reason like any other.
should such a person be excluded from Holy Communion?
I wouldn’t frame it that way. It’s not about excluding, IMHO. It is about self-regulation for many reasons-- superstition, too lax an attitude about reception of communion, whatever. For many reasons the Church found it necessary to put such law in place. And it’s not a guideline, it’s a law of the Church. They found it necessary to make it a law. To be clear.

So, knowing the law, I follow it if I’m ever in such a situation (which I haven’t ever been in my whole life).

There are literally millions of people who don’t know the law, and may have received 3 times or 4 times or whatever in a day-- or received twice but not in the correct context such as receiving at mass and then receiving in a non-mass setting of some type. They are ignorant of the law and it’s not really a big deal as far as I’m concerned. The world is not going to end because they innocently received 3 times.

There are some who know the law, look at their situation, and say “I’ve already received twice I don’t need to receive again” and stay in their pew. In fact, they may receive once and say “I’ve already received once I don’t need to receive again” not because there is a law but because they don’t believe they “have” to receive at every mass they go to. that would be where I fall.

There are those who know the law and ignore it. They are accountable for that decision (as we all are for all our decisions).

I think for the most part, this is angels dancing on the head of a pin. Not really something the average man in the pew worries about. But by the same token, I don’t think framing it as a penalty and exclusion from the Eucharist is the way to go. If someone’s already received twice in one day, not receiving for a third time is hardly a penalty or exclusion, IMHO.
 
Show me the word “vigil” in the Latin text. Post the sentence in Latin and put the word “vigil” in a different color font. Please do this because the Latin text of Dies Domini that I read on the Vatican website does not seem to have the word “vigil” in that sentence.
References:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top