Comparative Religion and General Faith Discussion

[MartinJordan]

We are distracted by the shortcomings IMPOSED on us by a “fallen society” Martin. Baha’u’llah has come to save us from this fallen society, full of man made vain imaginings and idle fancies.

I am eternally grateful to Baha’u’llah for EVERYTHING I revere in my life and everything that is sacred. I see the world with the eyes of God, not with the eyes of man.

You’re missing the point.

Let me put it this way. Do you believe “to err is human”?

For this I am thankful, and if a person can thank God in the Holy Land for me, then I will jump at the opportunity.

If that’s fine in your Faith world. Good for you.

Do you not pray for the dead,

Yes.Because we believe in the communion of saints, the resurrection of the dead. Do you?

or pray for others when they are sick, or for the poor and needy?

If you are sick do you not ask others to pray for you?

.

Of course we ask others to pray for us. That is what the Church teaches from the first millennium.

MJ

 

[MartinJordan]

Of course. All knowledge is from God

.

My God is the God Jesus taught. Nothing to do with any inclination from outside Catholicism. Your God with an imperfect understanding of him, is not my God. So it is not Of course.

MJ

 

[Servant19]

You’re missing the point.

Let me put it this way. Do you believe “to err is human”?

Depends on your definition of human…

If that’s fine in your Faith world. Good for you.

Yes.Because we believe in the communion of saints, the resurrection of the dead. Do you?

Not sure how that relates to prayer. Can you clarify please?

Of course we ask others to pray for us. That is what the Church teaches from the first millennium.

MJ

Why do you remember those who are Catholic friends who are healthy and happy in your prayers? Or do you not pray for such people?

.

 

[ffg]

So you believe your judgement is infallible and free from error that you are incapable of erring? That would make you equal to Jesus.

No.

your logic above is completely disconnected from your question.

You asked if folks are sure Jesus did not come back as something else that does not exist per anything that has been revealed or taught either through the good soil that is Judaism, or the vine that grows from that soul, Christianity.

Did you google ‘I came so that’ yet?

Just so you know, better to ask why then do what you did here, and put words in someone’s mouth. Follow Tony’s example there.

 

[Servant19]

My God is the God Jesus taught. Nothing to do with any inclination from outside Catholicism. Your God with an imperfect understanding of him, is not my God. So it is not Of course.

MJ

How wonderful for you. You must be better than me

.

 

[MartinJordan]

How wonderful for you. You must be better than me

.

You can go for RCIA then understand what I meant. The choice is yours.

MJ

 

[ffg]

Dear Mike - I like your thoughts and I would like to reply to them.

I would consider that from the time Christ was raised from the Dead, it has been many years since, we then all have our life to be prepared, how much time do we want

You may have to consider that My Love for Christ is not unstable but cemented upon my Soul for eternity. No one can or will take that Love from me as I would suggest they can not from you. I would say that is firm.

Physical Death is the First death mentioned in Scriptures. the death we are to avoid is the 2nd Death and that is of the spirit. Big subject of course! If you are ready their is no thief in any case.

Thus let us always Love God and ask for His Wisdom and not ours

I have found I have none at all, one has to turn to the source.

God bless and regards Tony

Thanks Tony,

Probably good to note that what I’ve been asking worldcitizen to lookup is key for why Jesus came and with that answer, we can determine a little nugget of how we are to approach life. We are not meant to live scared for the future, we are made to have life and have it abundantly.

With regard to the thief, it seems you are overlooking a key word in 2 Peter 3:10 (or in the other places this teaching exists) of which I will bold - this is throwing off your interpretation -

"But the day of the Lord will come like a thief,* and then the heavens will pass away with a mighty roar and the elements will be dissolved by fire, and the earth and everything done on it will be found out. "

Jesus will be meeting with all folks, regardless if anyone believes it or prepares. He is NOT a thief, the act of Jesus being upon us, is like one though.

If we want to get picky, we could say the timing of physical death, is the thief. Perhaps more accurately, there is NO thief, just that the meeting with Jesus will be quite the surprise.

So be prepared.

What we need to see is that 'preparing to meet Jesus' and 'loving Jesus' are one in the same acts for us in our nature. (See end of Matt 25)

However, We must know Jesus, AND He must know us. Sounds weird eh? That’s why we have more pixels!

Obviously, if He is God, he knows we exist, but I’m talking about relationship here…

There is something we can do that paves the way for Jesus to know us.

We can do something that says ‘Hi, Jesus, My name is Mike, I just wanted to let you know I’m here and I want to build a relationship.’

That act is to accept Baptism. Which is the beginning of a new life in Jesus (God).

You will see in the teaching of the vine and branches, that ‘in’ is common and not qualified. A taste (John 15:4)…

"Remain in me, as I remain **in **you. Just as a branch cannot bear fruit on its own unless it remains on the vine, so neither can you unless you remain in me. "

Full read here: usccb.org/bible/john/15 (read it, count the in’s)

That takes us to the question - is it true that Jesus may NOT know us (relationship)?

This is answered in Matt 25 -

The parable of the 10 Virgins
As earlier, very best is to just read the whole Matt 25 here: usccb.org/bible/matthew/25

The end of Matt 25 tells us HOW to love Jesus, the following parable confirms a ‘yes’ for the above question.

The Parable of the Ten Virgins. **
1“Then the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom.

2* Five of them were foolish and five were wise.

3The foolish ones, when taking their lamps, brought no oil with them,

4 but the wise brought flasks of oil with their lamps.

5 Since the bridegroom was long delayed, they all became drowsy and fell asleep.

6 At midnight, there was a cry, ‘Behold, the bridegroom! Come out to meet him!’

7 Then all those virgins got up and trimmed their lamps.

8 The foolish ones said to the wise, ‘Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.’

9 But the wise ones replied, ‘No, for there may not be enough for us and you. Go instead to the merchants and buy some for yourselves.’

10 While they went off to buy it, the bridegroom came and those who were ready went into the wedding feast with him. Then the door was locked.

11 * a Afterwards the other virgins came and said, ‘Lord, Lord, open the door for us!’

12 But he said in reply,** ‘Amen, I say to you, I do not know you.’ **

13 Therefore, stay awake,* for you know neither the day nor the hour.

What we need to see now is that it is possible we play a 'love game' where the result is not ending in a relationship with God (though we think it should, like the 5 virgin's informed by God).

This means that it is possible to not prepare (love) correctly, to come to an end that is a relationship with God.

That was a lot Tony, but YOU are worth it!

Thanks,

Mike

 

[worldcitizen]

Ffg

ive always understood that Jesus said He would come like a thief.

But that it means He can come and go if we are not watching.

The oil in lamps. If we don’t have enough oil What kind of oil? To watch mentally is to be open minded. So if our oil of open mindedness is not sufficient we will deny His coming even when He has come. Thus the like the thief metwphor.

To watch means to observe. But if He’s so easy to see why watch? He told us to watch because He won’t be easy to see if we are closed minded.

Watch the sky? Or watch for any Person that might announce Himself to be the messiah?

Bible scholars got 1844 the time right but didn’t look for a person. They just waited and nothing happened.mtheynstooped watching and missed Him because they weren’t watching for a Person in the form of a man but in a more superstitious manner.

Every eye shall see Him. Over time every person will awake and believe.

 

[Techno2000]

The oil in lamps. If we don’t have enough oil What kind of oil?

The Parable of the Ten Virgins is about those who are prepared for Judgement day, and those who are not.

 

[Techno2000]

Bible scholars got 1844 the time right but didn’t look for a person.

Why would Bible scholars be concerned about 1844 ?

 

[ffg]

Like that one, it can be used both ways though, as it depends what you filled your car with

If you filled the diesel car with petrol or water, you will also have a big mess

Now if we are full of the right fuel, then we may indeed have the means to go far. But if we have filled it with the wrong fuel we will not get far.

God bless and may we all fill our cars with the right fuel and always keep them full

Regards Tony

Thanks Tony,

First here, let’s remember the purpose of our new ‘car parable’, was to answer ‘more to consider’ of a ‘fullness’ regarding truth.

Then let’s recognize my shoddy parable writing - and tighten up the logic (bold changes) -

When my car's gas tank is full, there isn't more that fits, and if I try, I just make a mess. 

My gas tank doesn't have to be full to run the car, but a full tank **will** take me the furthest I can go.

(the car parable of the reality that if there is **a fullness of **truth, it is one, and no more)

Now let’s look at where you steered this mini-conversation (yes, I know, sorry pun haters) .

It seems you changed the conversation, from defending a desired consideration that there is ‘more’ to ‘full’, to something around keeping ourselves focused on what is routine.

One of my first thoughts when I read your response, was -

’ Yes, and let us not forget to put one foot in front of the other the next time we take a step.’

Putting the right gas in a car is most similar to something we do without having to think about it. Maybe there are some exceptions (errors), but the process is pretty routine, like taking a step.

I’m not sure this mini-conversation has too much gas left in the tank.

(I’m not usually a pun person, but they seem to fit the mini-conversation).

Take care,

Mike

 

[TonyBS]

So be prepared.

However, We must know Jesus, AND He must know us. Sounds weird eh? That’s why we have more pixels!

Obviously, if He is God, he knows we exist, but I’m talking about relationship here…

There is something we can do that paves the way for Jesus to know us.

We can do something that says ‘Hi, Jesus, My name is Mike, I just wanted to let you know I’m here and I want to build a relationship.’

That act is to accept Baptism. Which is the beginning of a new life in Jesus (God).

You will see in the teaching of the vine and branches, that ‘in’ is common and not qualified. A taste (John 15:4)…

"Remain in me, as I remain **in **you. Just as a branch cannot bear fruit on its own unless it remains on the vine, so neither can you unless you remain in me. "

What we need to see now is that it is possible we play a ‘love game’ where the result is not ending in a relationship with God (though we think it should, like the 5 virgin’s informed by God).

This means that it is possible to not prepare (love) correctly, to come to an end that is a relationship with God.

That was a lot Tony, but YOU are worth it!

Thanks, Mike

Dear Mike thank you for the reply, may I suggest we are all worth it as God wishes for all of is to Know Him and Love Him.

That was a lot and so much can be said, but I think we will keep it simple. Your Love for Jesus the Christ is strong and has foundations in a set of formulated beliefs.

Your love is bound to those beliefs.

Love is only a Game man Plays, Gods Love is all embracing so the first thing I would consider is why we limit it. Could it be a selfish thing? That is worth considering.

Yes we do have to know Jesus to be ready. Why and how I came to know Jesus is through another Gate and I wonder how this bounty was given to me over the many that spend their lives in a Faith waiting for their prayers to be answered and here was I not interested at all?

Here I am Jesus, but why have you allowed me when it was Mike that had the Faith in you and not I?

God bless you Mike, it is all in our Heart to which Free Will is given. God with His Laws is there for all. It is our own self and pride in what we think we know that are The veils and clouds of scripture.

So much can be talked about - Regards Tony

 

[Techno2000]

(the car parable of the reality that if there is **a fullness of **truth, it is one, and no more)

They believe the fullness of truth is Bahaism.

 

[ffg]

Ffg

The oil in lamps. If we don’t have enough oil What kind of oil?

Over time every person will awake and believe.

Thanks worldcitizen for the questions.

I’m going to focus on the one where you and Tony seem to be perfectly aligned.

What kind of oil? What kind of Gas?

For both parables, both of you are focused on something that is unrelated to the point of the parable.

Though, this gives us good insight into how our Bahai friends develop their thought process.

For your answer, look at the end of Matt 25 when Jesus is explaining how we love him. Remember - to prepare for God and to love God are the same acts.

I left in that last part of your post because I almost fully agree with what you wrote (with the caveat that the use of the word ‘believe’ as you use it, is not the pregnant ‘believe’ in the Bible, which has a deeper more fruitful meaning, which includes doing what is asked of us / instructed to us)…

Just drop the ‘over time’ bit, because we can see that over long periods of time people don’t believe.

But one thing is for sure - every person will eventually know God is, regardless of their acceptance of Him.

In that way, using a basic version of ‘belief’, yes, every person will believe.

To make sure this is very clear, and not interpreted as ‘everyone goes to heaven’…

Satan and his band of evil spirits know God is, just as much as the Angels and Saints.

Take care,

mike

 

[ffg]

They believe the fullness of truth is Bahaism.

Certainly, as with many (or any?) faiths.

But with multiple answers to 1 question acceptable in Bahaism, it’s a short walk for a Bahai member to say ‘consider more than full’.

If that can be understood as impossible, perhaps we get more fruitful questions!

Of course, Tony or worldcitizen, correct me if I am wrong.

Take care,

Mike

 

[TonyBS]

Thanks Tony,

First here, let’s remember the purpose of our new ‘car parable’, was to answer ‘more to consider’ of a ‘fullness’ regarding truth.

Then let’s recognize my shoddy parable writing - and tighten up the logic (bold changes) -

When my car's gas tank is full, there isn't more that fits, and if I try, I just make a mess. 

My gas tank doesn't have to be full to run the car, but a full tank **will** take me the furthest I can go.

(the car parable of the reality that if there is **a fullness of **truth, it is one, and no more)

Now let’s look at where you steered this mini-conversation (yes, I know, sorry pun haters) .

It seems you changed the conversation, from defending a desired consideration that there is ‘more’ to ‘full’, to something around keeping ourselves focused on what is routine.

One of my first thoughts when I read your response, was -

’ Yes, and let us not forget to put one foot in front of the other the next time we take a step.’

Putting the right gas in a car is most similar to something we do without having to think about it. Maybe there are some exceptions (errors), but the process is pretty routine, like taking a step.

I’m not sure this mini-conversation has too much gas left in the tank.

(I’m not usually a pun person, but they seem to fit the mini-conversation).

Take care,

Mike

Dear Mike - As you said to WC David, yes we are using different “Frames of Reference”.

The Frame we use is That bible reference " I have more to say unto you"!

Thus when I found Jesus Christ it was in an unlimited frame and can not put Him back into a single frame.

If we use the Fuel thing with more Truth one could say a person filled their car in preparation for The promised event. Over time more Truth was revealed but one did not refresh the fuel.

Thus when the event happened the stale fuel could not ignight the engine, new fuel was needed.

In the end Mike Truth will change the World, personal salvation has given way to salvation of mankind. No one is saved unless self.is given to the unity of mankind, a true unity in the Oneness of God free of man made walls and limitations. None of those are from our God.

It is up to us to decide what they are and how they were put there.

God bless and regards Tony

 

[TonyBS]

Certainly, as with many (or any?) faiths.

But with multiple answers to 1 question acceptable in Bahaism, it’s a short walk for a Bahai member to say ‘consider more than full’.

If that can be understood as impossible, perhaps we get more fruitful questions!

Of course, Tony or worldcitizen, correct me if I am wrong.

Take care,

Mike

Mike - We see the fullness of Truth in all the Scriptures. Many writings show this to be so. A lot of meaning is Hidden and Hidden for a reason. If it was plain then Free Will can not be fully used. It is the ability to use free will to its capacity that allows for Pure Love or Stainless hearts to become manifest.

Of course such a pitiful explanation for why it is all so!

God bless and regards Tony

 

[ffg]

Dear Mike - As you said to WC David, yes we are using different “Frames of Reference”.

The Frame we use is That bible reference " I have more to say unto you"!

Thus when I found Jesus Christ it was in an unlimited frame and can not put Him back into a single frame.

If we use the Fuel thing with more Truth one could say a person filled their car in preparation for The promised event. Over time more Truth was revealed but one did not refresh the fuel.

Thus when the event happened the stale fuel could not ignight the engine, new fuel was needed.

In the end Mike Truth will change the World, personal salvation has given way to salvation of mankind. No one is saved unless self.is given to the unity of mankind, a true unity in the Oneness of God free of man made walls and limitations. None of those are from our God.

It is up to us to decide what they are and how they were put there.

God bless and regards Tony

Hi Tony,

I find it very interesting that every answer to you is never analyzed by you against the initial question.

So we have ‘more to full’ countered and moved to -

‘get the gas right’ - countered and moved to -

‘fill the tank again’

I can’t say I envy the amount of work you put into moving those goal posts, but I enjoy the conversations.

Take care,

mike

 

[Techno2000]

I find it very interesting that every answer to you is never analyzed by you against the initial question.

Servant 19 plays that role, but he will never come to the same conclusion as you.

 

[TonyBS]

Hi Tony,

I find it very interesting that every answer to you is never analyzed by you against the initial question.

So we have ‘more to full’ countered and moved to -

‘get the gas right’ - countered and moved to -

‘fill the tank again’

I can’t say I envy the amount of work you put into moving those goal posts, but I enjoy the conversations.

Take care,

mike

Mike - Mostly no intentional, but I think it all ties back into each other. the goal is one but the team has to work together to get to the Goal.

We are all one team yet to be submissive to the coach still individuals playing our own game.

Regards Tony