Comparing Mary with the other Bible superstars. Who's more honorable?

[AgnosTheist]

Adam and Eve were not like six year olds, they were man and woman.

they were boys & girls in the body of a man & a woman. read your bible and check the reasonings she gave to the serpent. what a naive reasoning. adam did not even bother to reason at all. just took the offer silently.

kids.

They knew right from wrong as they were smart enough to know when God said don’t eat from that tree, they were not supposed to.

Ahem:

Genesis 3:22
And he said: Behold Adam is become as one of us, knowing good and evil: now therefore lest perhaps he put forth his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever.

Now tell me, was that before or after Adam took the bait?

But tempation led them to do wrong. You can be 6 or 46 and still be temptedso your so-called theroy doesn’t wash.

It all depends on the temptation. If you are 46 years old the serpent’s tease wont wash.

 

[newbetx]

Mary had Joseph. Come to think of it, more credit should go for that guy Joseph. Now what he did was extraordinary: taking in a woman pregnant someone else’s child, and witholding his sexual desires until his death. Now thats something.

Glad you think highly of someone!
But, hey, didn’t you say you didn’t believe in Mary’s perpetual virginity? So why would you now say that Joseph was perpetually chaste and not gay? Come on, here AT… you’re not being very consistant.

“God gave us reason, Not religion.” Are you sure? Can you prove that? Where in the bible does it say that?

It was free will he gave us… and the existance of the scriptures tells me he had a strong hand in the religion part, too. Or were these books just ordinary, too? Written by ordinary men disucussing ordanary things to lead us to an ordinary life? So if nothing is extraordinary, why bother to ask? If Mary wasn’t extraordinary, then neither were the others.

… har har har

Look Agno, you continue to badger us.You know our faith as well as most of us do. It does not seem like you are looking for an answer, you already seem to have one for every reply, anyway. Your talents are wasted here. You should become a talk show host or author. That would seem more prophetable…
har,har,har

 

[kim3260]

It all depends on the temptation. If you are 46 years old the serpent’s tease wont wash.

You don’t think a 46 year old could be tempted? If I told you if you ate this you would have all knowledge and power, tell me you would not be tempted even for a second?

 

[AgnosTheist]

Glad you think highly of someone!
But, hey, didn’t you say you didn’t believe in Mary’s perpetual virginity? So why would you now say that Joseph was perpetually chaste and not gay? Come on, here AT… you’re not being very consistant.

For the sake of the discussion I am assuming the following:

• that the bible characters were historical
• that mary was immaculate and a perpetual virgin

You should become a talk show host or author. That would seem more prophetable…
har,har,har

I WISH!!! Lets just enjoy this. Afterall some of you guys are entertained with my unorthodox approach to traditional thinking.

 

[LilyM]

Mary had Joseph. Come to think of it, more credit should go for that guy Joseph. Now what he did was extraordinary: taking in a woman pregnant someone else’s child, and witholding his sexual desires until his death. Now thats something.

Mary did NOT have Joseph when she made her critical choice! Read your scriptures - he wanted to divorce her when he found she was pregnant!

Not to mention that Joseph doesnt’ seem to have been around either during Jesus’ ministry or at His death, the point at which Mary suffered more than she ever had before, suffered so much that as Simeon said ‘a sword shall pierce you’.

On the other hand I do agree - Joseph was extraordinary. But then Mary also had to withold her sexual desires until her death.

 

[AgnosTheist]

Mary did NOT have Joseph when she made her critical choice! Read your scriptures - he wanted to divorce her when he found she was pregnant!

You either just contradicted yourself, or you have exposed a serious flaw in Mary’s character. Lets analyze:

In Matthew 1:18 Joseph and Mary were already engaged by the time he found out that she was pregnant.

Now the question is, did she concieve BEFORE or AFTER the engagement?

1. If it was AFTER, thats wherein you contradicted yourself. Because Mary already had Joseph when she took the offer.
2. If it was BEFORE, thats wherein Mary had a serious flaw: being engaged without telling Joseph that she was already pregnant.

Its your choice. 1 or 2?

Either way, its anything but justice for Joseph. Ask me why.

 

[SolaFide]

Who’s more extraordinary? More accomplished? More faithful? And the overall deserving of greater honor? Who sacrificed the most for God?

1. Mary or Abraham?
2. Mary or Sarah?
3. Mary or Moses?
4. Mary or Ruth?
5. Mary or David?
6. Mary or Solomon?
7. Mary or Peter?
8. Mary or Stephen the martyr?
9. Mary or Paul?

IMO, Mary beats Sarah, David & Solomon. She’s of the same rank as Ruth & Peter. She loses to Paul. And she loses to Abraham & Moses BIG TIME!

(and hey, how come there are no honorary statues of Abraham & Moses in Catholic establishments? Cant these folks offer prayers/ intercede for catholics too? )

WRONG! They all lose out to Yeshua HaMashiach! He who knew no sin became sin for us that we might become the righteousness of God.

 

[AgnosTheist]

WRONG! They all lose out to Yeshua HaMashiach! He who knew no sin became sin for us that we might become the righteousness of God.

YOU ARE CORRECT! but… ah… next to Yesuah HaMashiach, who is the next most noble bible character? Share with us your opinion on who is the next THREE MOST deserving people in the bible.

 

[LilyM]

You either just contradicted yourself, or you have exposed a serious flaw in Mary’s character. Lets analyze:

In Matthew 1:18 Joseph and Mary were already engaged by the time he found out that she was pregnant.

Now the question is, did she concieve BEFORE or AFTER the engagement?

1. If it was AFTER, thats wherein you contradicted yourself. Because Mary already had Joseph when she took the offer.
2. If it was BEFORE, thats wherein Mary had a serious flaw: being engaged without telling Joseph that she was already pregnant.

Its your choice. 1 or 2?

There’s a choice 3, by far the most likely one, which you didn’t consider - which is that they were engaged, but Mary didn’t know how Joseph would react to the pregnancy and whether he’d dump her or stick by her.

Given that he himself was unsure what to do when he found out - whether to bail or not - I fine it hard to imagine that she’d be at all sure of him.

Either way, its anything but justice for Joseph. Ask me why.

No, but I’m sure you’ll tell us anyway

 

[Doyle_Mashern]

Apparently reducing the lives of Saints to a glorified board game can be quite entertaining.

 

[SolaFide]

YOU ARE CORRECT! but… ah… next to Yesuah HaMashiach, who is the next most noble bible character? Share with us your opinion on who is the next THREE MOST deserving people in the bible.

Your word “deserving” leaves out absolutely everyone! There are none who deserve anything but God’s wrath, that includes us without faith and trust in Yeshua.

However, “notable” is another matter. My opinion on this really doesn’t matter, let’s find out what Yeshua said. Speaking of John the Baptist, Yeshua said:

Mat 11:11 “I tell you the truth, among those born of women, no one has arisen greater than John the Baptist. Yet the one who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he is.”

Yeshua said it, debate over.

 

[AgnosTheist]

There’s a choice 3, by far the most likely one, which you didn’t consider - which is that they were engaged, but Mary didn’t know how Joseph would react to the pregnancy and whether he’d dump her or stick by her.

thats the same as #1, my dear. the point there was that Mary already had joseph.

No, but I’m sure you’ll tell us anyway

right.

In ancient jewish culture engagement is the same as marriage. As Mary’s husband, Joseph had a right to know what the heck was going on before Mary made an all important decision that would forever alter the course of their marriage. It should have been a joint decision, even. Another hint that somethings not right with this story.

 

[AgnosTheist]

However, “notable” is another matter. My opinion on this really doesn’t matter, let’s find out what Yeshua said. Speaking of John the Baptist, Yeshua said:

Mat 11:11 “I tell you the truth, among those born of women, no one has arisen greater than John the Baptist. Yet the one who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he is.”

Yeshua said it, debate over.

AN EXCELLENT ANSWER MY FRIEND!!!

And so even John the Baptist is greater than Mary. And yet there some ‘not so notable dudes’ out there who is even greater than the both of them.

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

Originally Posted by AgnosTheist
Well God had Eve tempted shortly after she was born (in fact she was so young that hadnt discovered sex yet!). At such a young age she had to deal with the ultra persuasive serpent. Its a no brainer, with or without original sin she was destined to be decieved.

1. You are incorrect about Eve not having discovered sex. Genesis 1 says, “Be fruitful and multiply, fill the earth and subdue it.” How do you expect for them to have done that without sex? Also Genesis 2 “That is why a man leaves his father and mother and becomes attached to his wife and they become one flesh” Both these passages occurred prior to the Fall.
2. No one is requiring you to believe anything, but your comments about THE MOTHER OF GOD, are very close to blasphemous. Mary carried Jesus in her womb, she took care of him as an infant and a child, she stayed at the foot of the cross while the rest of the apostles except for John hid in fear. Please do not insinuate that she should have carried His cross. None of the apostles did.

And why is it that only the new testament characters get the superstar treatment from the catholic church? tis not fair, i tell you

1. I do not know how much more than Sainthood does “superstar treatment” need to be. The Catholic Church believes each of the patriarchs to be a Saint.
2. Jesus did not need to come as an infant. He could have came anyway he wanted…He could have come as an adult. He came as an infant, born of Mary. Mary was chosen specifically to be the Mother of Jesus. To paraphrase Father Corapi, “If she is good enough for Jesus, she is good enough for me.”

 

[newbetx]

AN EXCELLENT ANSWER MY FRIEND!!!

And so even John the Baptist is greater than Mary. And yet there some ‘not so notable dudes’ out there who is even greater than the both of them.

And if taken out of context and literally, Jesus wasn’t such hot stuff either. Is that fish I smell?

 

[LilyM]

thats the same as #1, my dear. the point there was that Mary already had joseph.

I’d love to know in what sense you think a woman ‘has’ a man who is every bit as likely as not to dump/divorce her when he discovers she’s pregnant with a child that isn’t his!

So no, Mary didn’t ‘already have’ Joseph in any sense, since she didn’t know whether or not he was going to stand by her. IF she had been sure beforehand that he was going to support her in this pregnancy, then it would be like #1. As it stands it isn’t.

And I think the God who created Mary well and truly had prior claims over her - body, soul and all - than her human husband. Joseph, being a devout Jew as well, understood this too. THAT is why firstborn sons were taken to the Temple - they belonged to GOD, not to the parents.

 

[i_have_no_names]

Why is everyone here in conflict with such a ridiculous subject such as this? You either believe in the Word, Jesus Christ, or you don’t. Mary was obedient to God, God then became flesh, then God was obedient to His Mother. He suffered, died, and was Resurrected in fulfillment of the scriptures. He assumed His Mother into heaven and named Her Queen over all the angels of heaven and us creatures here on earth. What more need be said? She is our Queen and our Mother. End, over, done. If she was good enough for our Lord and Savior, she is good enough for us.

You either walk by faith or walk by sight. If a person is not disposed to the truth, all the arguing in the world will not improve his situation.

God loves all His children. Each, in their own way, fulfilled the will of God. They were willing to put aside their own welfare and desires to do the will of God. This is the Truth…“Thy will be done.” It is not a competition for His love and ranking in His Kingdom. Do not fall into the trap of listening to hogwash concerning our Blessed Mother. Her Son would not approve.

May God grant all clarity to see the Truth and live their faith.

Thank you.

Now, can someone shoot this thread…? AgnosTheist has already admitted he is not here to learn, but to “entertain us with his unorthodox approach to traditional thinking”.

I dunno, but I for one am not entertained. This thread is just a waste of time and effort

 

[Cathlacostal]

I see from some pages back that the originator of this thread is a scripture buff by his comment to me that scripture doe not say Mary is the Mother of God. I’d suggest reading St. John Chapter one to clarify just who Christ is. Matter of saving time I’ll state the truth: Jesus is God. Those who see Him see the father. Those who know Him know the Father. Mary was the mother of Jesus there by being the Mother of God.
I also see the thread originator has little knowledge of what the Catholic says about Joseph. He is regarded highly as he protected Christ thereby protecting the Church Herself. And yet, it has nothing to do with super stardom. It has everything to do with examples of holy living. It’s far to easy to say we should be like Christ. Our flesh hinders it as each of us know full well. God also inspired His penmen to write about men and women of great faith showing us we needn’t by deity to achieve the state of holy life.
Yes my new friend, God spoke directly to Abraham, Moses and even walked in the cool of the evenings with Adam. Hearing from God is not what made Abraham a great man of faith. It was his obedience. Even this lowly pastor has heard the voice of God. It promotes me none as unless I act upon His direction, I’m a mere sinner.
All of the people you listed are great examples of serving God. All of the men listed have something in common. They all failed God at least once. We learn something very important though their failing; The need for salvation, the need for the Christ.

 

[valient_Lucy]

Apparently reducing the lives of Saints to a glorified board game can be quite entertaining.

I’m working on a version for Parker Brothers. Think they’ll take it?

 

[valient_Lucy]

Adam & Eve were 6yr olds trapped inside the body of teenagers. In fact they only discovered sex after they ate the brain-booster food.

what can you expect from 6yr old kids?

.

Where is that in the Bible? The Bible does mention that Adam slept with his wife after the Fall, but it doesn’t say that that was the first time they had had sex. After all, when God created them, he blessed them and commanded them, “Be fruitful and multiply, fill the earth with your descendants.” How could he expect them to fulfill this command if they didn’t know by what means to procreate?